[Music]
Your Honor okay well welcome to the
second part of our City Council meetings
is a special work session today is June
15th Monday 2020 approximately 518 p.m.
we have one item on the agenda and
that's called 8:00 can't wait so many
residents emailed myself and members of
City Council so we appreciate the
opportunity to share with members of the
public what exactly lost risk fleece
does in regards to this as well as we
also invited the sheriff Kim Stewart
who's here we also have with us special
guest dr. Bobby green president of the
local NAACP as well as dr. Lao de tienda
Spencer
director of the Chicano programs at New
Mexico State so what I'm going to do is
I'm going to read some emails that I
received
over the weekend and and then we'll kind
of start off that way so if I may this
one particular email I received and it's
pretty much a template email so I'm
going to read the actual email and I'll
read the names of all the people who
signed on to that or duplicate emails
those right here
oh also there are gonna be some emails
that I will not be able to read because
of the fact that it could it's actually
pertaining to possible litigation or
personnel action okay so says dear mayor
Nagashima an Oscar City Council my name
is Gale Tyree I'm a resident of las
Cruces and I'm emailing you this
evenings a demand and overall to our Los
Cruces Police Department budget in light
of the black lives matter protests
across the u.s. especially specifically
in Las Cruces I am demanding that you my
local officials will vote no on all
increases to police budgets oh yes to
decrease police spending and budget
well yes to increase spending on health
care education housing community
programs to keep us safe
the militarized tactics that police
departments are using against citizens
is unacceptable and unwarranted we have
seen mounting evidence that police
departments are racist and ineffective
institutions that put citizens at risk
of injury and death the approved fiscal
year 2020 budget allocated over 61
percent of our public safety funds to
the Las Cruces Police Department to
ensure your dedication to our city and
citizens I demand that you defund a Las
Cruces Police Department and start
providing more support and funding
towards community-based safety and
social programs this reprioritization
will be necessary to prevent further
loose police brutality and violence in
the future and finally mark a turn from
over policing and incarceration black
latina --cz
and indigenous indigenous communities
are living in persistent fear of being
killed by state authorities by police
immigration agents or even white
vigilantes who are emboldened by state
actors according to the Urban Institute
in 1977 state and local governments
spent 60 billion on police and
corrections 2017
they spent 194 billion a 220 percent
increase despite continued police
profiling harassment terror and killing
in black latina --kx and images
indigenous communities local and federal
decision-makers continued to invest in
the police which leaves these
communities vulnerable and our
communities no safer work could
reallocated money go it could go towards
building healthy communities to the
health of our elders and children the
neighborhood infrastructure to education
childcare to support vibrant black
latina --kx and indigenous futures these
opportunities are incredibly prompt
promising for instance consider the
recent case in which a suicidal 81 year
old man was killed recently in a
shootout with lustrous police social
workers
then armed officers have been sent in
his first responders his death may have
been prevented and he may have gotten
helped that he needed
I joined in solidarity with freedom
fighters in Minneapolis Louisville and
across the United States calling for an
end to police terror in Serie B Gail
Tyree and I have a list of names who
basically sent the same email instead of
reading every single one I'm just going
to read their names so also signing off
to this type of email almost exactly was
Amy Pham James Nance Jean Thomas
Tremblay Alexandra Heller
Lillian Haner J Boyd Camille Brown
Brandon Pina Pina Angela Thomas Nia
Penelope Shannon Downey Tess Drake Kelly
Carmichael Shaylee Arvizu Queen Marie
Meghan McKinney Phoenix Lopez Santana
and Izola Danny Lara
Paul Schmidt Justine a menace Arizona
furphy Rachel Roberts James Davidson
Nathan Barone Aaron Galindo Cherokee
Sullinger Tori pata James Rogers Sarah
Jane Hager Husseini Briana Valdez ran T
Charlotte Flores Alicia Garcia
Milda Chris to Paytas Stella Lago Jones
Mackenzie drainie Meg fryer moose
Christopher Brett Barty ashley rose
Francia
few more here says as you are aware New
Mexico recently made national news the
Rolling Stones glowing article and our
governor and how she's able to keep cope
with nineteen from spiraling out of
control even though we are one of the
nation's four states then New Mexico
made national news again though in much
less positive light this year according
to the Washington Post our state had the
highest rate of police shootings in the
country we may be relatively small city
but we're clearly not immune to the
problems of violence from our police
even the protests happening nationwide
citizens everywhere want to see real
change in our communities this is an
opportunity for Los Cruces to address
these problems this threat to public
safety in real time the way governor
michelle lujan-grisham was able to get
noble coronavirus i call on you to
define LCPD remove the presence from las
cruces public schools andrea propriate
the funds for social programs that
actually bring help and healing to our
community
las Cruces can and should be a leader
for a change in police departments
across New Mexico in the United States
of America respectfully Miranda
Florida's another one here is I hope you
will listen to the voices crying out
from around the world the need for
change is dire we must rethink the way
we we approach public safety I am a
concerned citizen of the city and I
demand change and that's from Rachel
Roberts this one's from Larry to Minnie
your council Commission members I hope
you will do a thorough study of the
eight can't wait numbers in addition
please consider reducing the legal
immunity protections of the police and
all government officials to an absolute
minimum
surely the goal should be that everyone
is subject to the same laws and join the
same protections under the law please
consider a local civilian review board
of the police activity rather than
sending hundreds of thousands of dollars
to East Coast consulting
[Music]
this one here was just uh just says las
cruces friends police reform needs start
here at home please contact me
Mia Shima your City Council today and
urge them to implement the eight count
weight measures in our city
these include banning chokeholds and
requiring actually be taken to
deescalate the situation rather they're
rather than immediately resorting to
deadly force and it listed all the
various council members names and email
address ow
Stockton this one here is from
Bernadette Sanchez says City Council
members as a concerned citizen in Los
Cruces New Mexico I would like to
encourage you to purchase lapel cameras
for all the police forest and for the
Dona Ana County Sheriff's Department
without a doubt these cameras could
prevent further litigation against a
city county and state first of all these
cameras should make the cops realize
that they're being watched
and that they may practice some civil
constraints in regards to killing people
it is not acceptable to brutalize every
anyone please do not tell me that there
are no funds available mayor mera Shima
in the Las Cruces City Council disclosed
that they're meeting televised last week
that funding is available for all sorts
of business he stated that money was
cheap now and that the city should go
ahead and take out loans in the millions
he kept saying money is so cheap if
money is so readily available why not
protect us from the police and their
shoot first ask questions later approach
as their way of running the law
enforcement I am speaking from
experience we were stopped harassed and
intimidated and I was told to go to a
shelter
I asked why I have my own home to make a
long story shorter i videotaped our
harassment they use some type of weapon
to burn my legs I was going to get out
of the car to help my husband and one of
the cops came some type of weapon my
legs and they were either laser burn or
a Taser burn no it's not neuropathy this
is actual burned by three cops that
chose to harass us they had no reason
for doing that I'm going to be 70 years
70 years old just think of your own
relatives and the possibility of them
being
by unstable law enforcement I would
appreciate a response and I hope the
City Council makes right choices and
dealing with arrogant law enforcement
that they think they can do whatever
they want to get away with it ya basta
no more police brutality please do
something because if you do not your
lack of response will convey a message
that you can do in this behavior thank
you for you and your work conscience
this one is from Thea the arm on a dear
mayor I'm writing a City Las Cruces cut
the funding to the Los Cruces Police
Department by at least 50%
according to the New York Times Magazine
between 1977 and 2017 the percentage of
public spending on police and las cruces
rose six point four percent to twelve
point four percent that is in 40 years
Cruces nearly double D it's spending on
police below is a screenshot from
article 20 17 12 percent of all local
spending and Las Cruces went to the
police do note that all other cities in
the screenshot devoting comparable
percentages as local spending to police
are far larger than Las Cruces this is
certainly not a matter of crime rates
Albuquerque has a higher crime rate them
does Las Cruces but spends a smaller
percentage of its budget on police 11
percent versus 12.4% I split time
between Oakland California in Los Cruces
where I grew up
Oakland again with a higher crime rate
than Las Cruces historic 7% of all local
spending towards police do note that
studies have shown that more cops does
not mean less crime see or this is from
Jamie Reeves dear local officials I am
asking for the complete and total
defunding of the police I'm asking for
you to halt using taxpayer dollars
provided by me and my neighbors to
sponsor force that makes my black
neighbors live in fear
I want our city to adopt a new model of
Public Safety one that serves not only
our white populations but our black and
POC communities as well please care for
our black communities and do your parts
eat up make change do anything sign
Jamie Reeves boom
and this one here is from Chandra fryer
mosh fryer dear mayor and city council
my name is Chandra Chandra fryer moos at
first of all i want to thank you for
your time i'm resident district 2 in Los
Cruces and I'm emailing today the man
that you addressed police violence our
community I'm also writing to ask that
you not adopt campaign zeros reformist
it can't wait program as ignores decades
have worked by black activists and
doesn't offer up any real solutions or
new ideas I hope that instead you adopt
the following steps laid out by eight to
abolish campaign you can read more about
it at a to abolish calm so this is a new
one here one to define the lustrous
Police Department to demilitarize our
community three remove police from
schools or free people from jails and
prisons five repeal laws that
criminalize survival six investing
community self-governance seven provides
safe housing for everyone eight
investing care not cops
or in the Washington Post Las Cruces New
Mexico had the highest rate of police
killings of any city in the country
between 2015 and 2019 progressives all
over the country heard and read that and
when an 80 81 year old Michael Seltzer
was experiencing mental health emergency
and needed help LCPD instead Senate SWAT
team to kill him we should you know
nothing short of deep shame about the
violence being perpetrated by police in
our community abolition is not about
leaving a community in chaos rather it's
about creating systems of care in the
community ensure that there's no need
for policing and car serration may sound
radical but at least 16 major cities in
the US have already vowed to start the
process of defunding and dismantling
their police departments if they can do
it Los Cruces can to to ensure your
dedication to our city's citizens I
demand you defund the last risky part us
Chris police departments start providing
more support and funding towards
community-based safety social programs
once again thank you for your time okay
I have a few more here this one is from
least apparent
your mayor and council please read my
email today's virtual regular council
work session since it's my understanding
public input is not permitted during
this work session under where this
matter will be discussed after 5:00 p.m.
today I totally disagree with each and
every one of the tenets of the eight
can't wait campaign of campaign zero an
offshoot organization founded by black
lives matter legal remedies already
exist to try a police officer or any
other person in a court of law in
America we do not try people nor render
justice the jalan t style nor do we
require people to do their jobs no
matter which we knowingly will cause in
physical harm or even death I wish for
the record to also reflect that at 2:45
a.m. today while working on this matter
I felt it necessary to call the police
las Tres Police Department due to what
sounded to me like a shotgun blast being
discharged near my home three LC PD
officers immediately responded to my
9-1-1 call took down my husband's at my
information investigated the area from
where I felt the sound came and assured
us that they would come with other
officers who have been called to our
home in the past for similar issues
their demeanor was professional
compassionate reassuring you seldom hear
on the news of instances such as this
happening because good news does not
generate ratings or sell newspapers
please do not stop it can't wait not
less this one hears from Mariah to whom
it may concern I know it's a fee and you
get a lot of emails but I'd appreciate
if you read this and tired I'm writing
this in regards to the eight can't wait
initiative I highly encourage you not to
support the initiative because it is
clearly a left-wing agenda the police
force continuum has been proven obsolete
and was phased out in the 1990s it was
replaced with Supreme Court decision
citing sectional reasonableness Canton
vs Ohio Graham versus Connor most of the
items that are on the eighth can't wait
the police department currently does the
police department already banned
chokeholds vnr requires the escalation
and most officers are really CIT
qualified and complete biannual training
to require warning
for shading is already established in
Supreme Court decisions and officers
only have to do it when feasible
exhausting all efforts before Sheen is
not always feasible for police someone
has a gun and a shooting at police
trying to deploy a Taser seems
ridiculous and deadly for officers of
all 32 to duty to intervene is already
in the police officers code of conduct
shooting at a moving vehicle is highly
discouraged and is only allowed and only
considered when reasonable someone's
trying to run over an officer for
example which recently happened in other
cities requiring the comprehensive
reporting is something Police Department
does
although the apartment already does most
of these the following three items the
acquirement of warning before shooting
the requirement of exhausting our
efforts before shooting and the use of
force of continuum will open the
department city and officers up to
liability Supreme Court decisions have
already established this and might well
be out of city policy have passed the
use of force was deemed reasonable under
Canton versus Ohio objection a
reasonable standard and the city will be
hard to pay out lawsuits we have the
opportunity to make changes in the
department such as increasing funding so
that no more officers can be hired in
the community policing and quality of
life issues our city has an amazing
Department the police officers need to
be involved in the conversation as well
because they know what their issues and
challenges are I'm a teacher and it
makes me very angry when policies are
made at the government level without
input from teachers we just like
officers know the challenges we face and
what things can be done to make
improvements I encourage you to really
have an honest open discussion with a
variety of officers these are the same
men and women to go to your council
meetings for your protection at your
request they these are men and women
with families who do extraordinary
things on a daily basis they do it
without thanks and they take and they
take and shoulder the blame for all of
the city's problems the judicial system
doesn't back them up and they deal with
repeat offenders criminal mental health
daily the police department needs your
support please do not make their jobs
harder or more dangerous as they are AR
Thank You Mariah this one here is from
Emil board a in today's SF Chronicle
article
written by Willie Brown former Speaker
of the House Sacramento California
headline reads define the police
question work best to imagine the slogan
I will quote the first paragraph in this
email the call to defund the police as
part of the anti racism anti-police
brutality movement is either one of the
dumbest ideas of all time or the hand
down winner of the worst slogan ever you
might want to read the entire article
he gave no solutions but focus on the
political ramifications he said quote
people are legitimately shocked by the
police misconduct that they see on TV
and social media but everyone still
wants the assurance that when they die
9-1-1 a cop is on the way you take away
people's feelings of personal safety and
you lose photos end quote
Willie is right you and the City Council
need to do is right for the community
safety the police chief and senior
officers need to step up and tell
elected officials what they think can be
changed to protect it to better protect
all citizens in the community good luck
amel this one here is from Allah Farber
says hello in light of the unrest which
has occurred due to the blatant
disregard of human life there is a lot
of hard feelings I was disgusted by the
actions of the officer who killed George
Floyd however I know that we have some
wonderful people who work as policemen I
would like to propose that after kovat
has passed Oskaloosa scheduled
activities were both citizens the
policemen can come together this may
take the form of community soccer game a
community picnic potluck etc these
activities could help any policeman with
prejudice feelings better connect and
spend more time with the public it could
also help many of us put the rest some
of our fears about the police force
thank you so much for all you do Ella
farmer this one here is from Elsa
believe us your mayor city council
please consider this as public input I
cannot attend a meeting due to work or I
would I am very concerned about the
defund police movement but even more
concerned about how some government
officials and cities are embracing the
demands of this movement police have
horrible but necessary jobs they have to
deal with the most rebellious resisting
arrest
angry like domestic violence most
intoxicated such as someone high on meth
and most dangerous such as drug gangs
and terrorists all while having it all
while often having their own children
and wife at home as they have their own
common problems police even have their
own job related illnesses such as PTSD
and illnesses related to high continual
stress and to top it off we expect him
to do a perfect job and never do one
little thing wrong at any time do we do
perfect jobs no I know George Floyd was
not was not a mistake I am including his
murderer here but most cops can't even
do their job now without someone being
judge and jury of their every move and
the vast majority of cops are not like
George Floyd's killer so to me for these
other cities mayor's to agree and say
yes lists of fun please go far beyond a
slap in the face I I feel horrible for
the police I believe something like 900
cops have been assaulted in the last
couple of weeks
this is beyond acceptable i akin it to
this if you have a bad neighbor do you
go and attack all your neighbors and
then have the judge and jury say well
yes it's justified because you're angry
over one of your neighbor but that's
what's being done across our country
police need our support yes by all means
have talks with them and their accusers
about how they could better handle
certain circumstances but the cops
accusers should also have to answer how
cops can be kept safe in the face of
those resisting arrest those with
weapons those high on drugs cetera
finally we need to talk about how the
vast majority of the rest of us the
armed police not social services showing
up at our door when we are being broken
into which has happened to me when
people are being shot on your streets
which has happened on my street and most
anything else call the cops for I'm glad
they always have guns on them honestly I
trust our police more than I trust
social services anyway or one of the
recommendations of the defund police
movements and social services instead in
quote police please consider the
police's safety and also your citizens
safety would make a decisions about law
enforcement for our city and not just
those who view cops all the same and all
cops as a danger or threat sincerely
Lisa leave
fifty-five year resident of Las Cruces
and it's pretty much be the last one
here from Erika McDonald good afternoon
it's my understanding City Council will
be discussing the eight count wave
proposals for police reform this week
and I like to give my input on the topic
as a white person who is not impacted by
systemic racism and specifically not
harmed by the police I've spent the last
few weeks listening when I first heard
the proposals of aid can't wait and the
promise that adopting them would reduce
deaths at the hand of police by 72
percent I thought it sounded like a
great idea then I did more this thing I
read articles like it can't wait it's
based on faulty data science and she
lists each TPS web address which shows
that the claims of aid can't wait sound
good but aren't backed up by clear
evidence I was also stunned to learn
that many of the high-profile killings
of black people in recent months have
occurred in cities where whose police
departments have already adopted many of
these reforms listening to a variety of
perspectives it became clear to me that
these eight demands are not what we need
what we need is to shift resources away
from the police department into services
and actually keep people safe
social services housing mental health
support conflict resolution support
opportunities for recreation and healthy
living and the list goes on what I mean
is this we need to defund our Police
Department and reinvest our community
thank you for your consideration Erica
okay
so that was the email and I'd like to
start off this work session with my
official statement that I released on
May 30th regarding the senseless killing
of mr. George Floyd
like everyone else I was horrified by
the video of the murder of George Floyd
this event like the disproportion effect
of the corona virus on African American
hispano and native peoples drives home
the truth that life for many of us is
experience much more differently than it
is for others for all of our many
strains a witness of our country has
been a racism deeply embedded in our
history a poison that drags at our
national consciousness and sense of
ourselves as a good and worthy people
none of us is
free from powerful misconceptions about
others that compromised our humanity
none of us is unburdened by culture of
blindness to our neighbors suffering and
long-standing willingness to let harm
come their way we are better than that
not just here in Las Cruces but across
the land I pray that God will grant us
the strength to learn from this tragedy
the humility to acknowledge inequities
among us and the opportunity to forge a
better path for all of us that we can
share
sincerely kim myung Ashima so let me
just say this I start this work session
by I I want to read that statement again
that I put in my letter about the
humility to acknowledging the inequities
among us and the opportunity to forge a
better path for all of us that we can
share so regarding the defunding of
police obviously we can't disband the
police department but let's just well
but it is saying in but it is important
for us to look and see what people mean
when they are making this demand and
that to think about all that we ask
police to deal with like being first
responders for homelessness mental
health issues domestic disputes drug
addiction youth offenders a lot of which
may better be addressed by social
workers and other non police
professionals we can where can enhance
the police chief and Department in
figuring this out and there was a short
article that I was able to read in The
Washington Post called the defund police
so when you read it it's interesting
what they what they talked about and
it's just basically it talks about like
what many of these letters say and one
of the things that I want to mention let
me just read this it's pretty quick they
just restart
again this one Washington Post Christie
Lopez June 7 2012 is Lopez professor
Georgetown Law School co-director of the
school's innovative police program since
Georgia Floyd's death a long-simmering
movement for police evolution has become
part of the national conversation recast
slightly as a call to quote defund the
police for activists this conversation
is long overdue but for the casual
observers the new direction may be it
may seem a bit disorienting or even
alarming be not afraid defunding the
police is not as scary or radical as it
sounds and engaged in the topic is
necessary if we're going to achieve this
kind doing my 25 years dedicated to
police reform including places like
Ferguson Missouri New Orleans of Chicago
has become clear to me that reform is
not enough making sure the police follow
the rule of law is not enough even
changing the law is not enough I fix
policing we must first recognize how
much we've come to over rely on law
enforcement we turn to the police in
situations where years of experience and
common sense tell us that their
involvement is unnecessary and can make
things worse we asked police to take
reports accident reports respond to
people who overdosed and arrests rather
than cite people who have intentionally
or not passed the counterfeit $20 bill
we call police to roust homeless people
from corners the doorsteps resolve
verbal squabbles between family members
and strangers alike and arrest children
for behavior that once would have been
handled by a school disciplinary issue
police themselves often complain about
having too much to do including handling
social problems for which they are
ill-equipped some have been vocal about
the need to decriminalize social
problems and take police out of the
equation it is clear that we must
ramanujan the role that they play in
public safety defunding and abolition
probably means something different from
what you were thinking foremost
proponents defunding the police does not
mean zero in our budgets for public
safety and public abolition does not
mean that police will disappear
overnight or perhaps ever
defending the police means shrinking the
scope of the police responsibilities and
shifting most of what government does to
keep us safe two entities that are
better equipped to meet that need it
means investing more in mental health
care and housing and expanding the use
of community mediation and violence
interruption programs police abolition
means reducing with division eventually
eliminating our reliance on policing
to secure our public safety it means
recognizing that criminalized
criminalization of addiction and poverty
make making ten million arrests per year
and mass incarceration have not provided
Public Safety one never will the
abolition language is important because
it reminds us that policing has been the
primary vehicle for using violence to
perpetrate this unjustified white
control over the bodies and the lives of
black people that have been with us in
slavery yeah that aspect of policing
must be literally is abolished still
even as we try to ship resources from
policing to programs that will better
promote fairness and Public Safety we
must continue the work of police reform
we cannot stop regulating police conduct
now because we we hope someday to reduce
or eliminate our reliance on policing we
must ban chokehold and curb the use of
no-knock warrants we must train officers
how to better respond to people in
mental health crises and we must teach
officers to be guardians not warriors to
intervene to prevent misconduct and to
understand and appreciate the community
communities they serve why must we work
on parallel tracks first all police will
not be defunded or abolished anytime
soon and we cannot wait to make changes
that they will save lives and reduce
policing harm now experienced advocates
know this this is why for example
campaign zero launched the a8 can't wait
campaign which are just law enforcement
agencies to immediately adopt the eight
uses of force reforms even as it
continues to divest or invest strategy
to end police killings now all of you
Adrian do we have this up the eight
items excuse me eight items for it can't
wait
I don't know if we have that available I
could get it available shortly okay so
what I'm going to do is I'm going to now
turn it over to I think I mentioned to
you we have dr. barber green from
president and double acp NAACP mr. Rocha
heard me correct me
dr. louder bootie dispenser director of
Chicano programs at NMSU sheriff Kim
Stewart and deputy chief Miguel
Dominguez chief a gallery was not able
able to be here today so chief Dominguez
is here and so chief Dominguez I was
just hoping if you don't mind if you
could go over these items that are in
the 8 can't wait and if you could
describe to us if las cruces please uses
any of these or has removed them or you
know basically give us an update on
these items please
see if the W chief was here I thought it
was here mr. mayor
who's that given the importance that
this conversation has for our community
is there a direct statement of
white-cheeked Gallagher cannot join us
today I do not have that perhaps deputy
chief omegis could I was just told he
wasn't able to make it to be chief to
you are you on or are you muted mayor
this is David my SS interim city manager
DC Dominguez was having a hard time when
muting his screen so he's trying to log
out and log back in and then he will be
with us shortly with respect to chief
Gallagher as you mentioned in your
opening remarks mayor the city does have
pending litigation so an advice of
counsel easy the pingas will be
providing you the information that you
s4 and then if there's any questions
he'll be available for those questions
as well okay so David Shane Brisco is
that a police officer name sounds
familiar I don't know if he can speak to
what else hoping to do was just kind of
go over some of these items here there's
this name Brisco lieutenant with the Las
Cruces
apartment I can hear you and I'm unmuted
okay great lieutenant do you mind kind
of going through these items these eight
items either until deputy chief the
Magus gets here it kind of shared with
Council what they are and is a city
still using these or have they done away
with them can you do you feel that you
can speak to those I do we discussed it
a couple of days ago went through the a
can't wait okay I'll just go and order
the call for a ban
on vascular neck restraints or neck
restraints big difference between the
two but there is a moratorium on those
being used in the Las Cruces Police
Department we we don't teach it anymore
it's not part of the curriculum and
there was a memorandum that was sent out
saying that it's not to be used okay
as far as requiring de-escalation I've
been the head of our crisis intervention
unit for I want to say close to 15 years
and I know that myself
and sergeant Bob McCord as well as Josh
milk's officer josh milks officer McGee
honest take CIT training very seriously
every binding cycle we go over
de-escalation tactics under House bill
93 it's something that our department
has trained for a number of years and
continues to work toward improvement as
far as requiring a warning shot or
requiring warning before shooting that
is covered under federal or I'm sorry US
supreme case law Tennessee V Garner nope
yeah Tennessee V Garner says that when
feasible police officers must give
warning of course they're if you replace
the word feasible with reasonable
it isn't always reasonable for an
officer to offer warning before
answering a deadly threat for example if
somebody's pointing a gun right Adam
officers not required to say put the gun
down or I'm gonna be forced to shoot
what ties into that is exhausting all
the other means before shooting that
also could tie into Tennessee V Garner
the language in that case law basically
says that you should avoid using deadly
if there's another reasonable means of
apprehension so if you could use a
canine if you could use a Taser if you
could use impact munitions or there are
other options preservation of life is
important but it's covered under case
law it's another thing that's covered in
depth in the Academy it's covered during
use of force refreshers about every 18
months or at least during the biennial
cycle let me scroll down on the notes
here their duty to intervene is
something that we have discussed it's in
policy under conduct unbecoming but in
light of recent events and we're always
evaluating how to do things better we're
drafting a policy that would address
that in our use of force policy there's
case law that covers duty to intervene
in fact Duty imp to intervene is covered
under Samuels V Cunningham and Jones V
City of Hartford previously that has not
been specifically included in our use of
force policy but we've already drafted a
newer version that will cover it under
policy officer Burke can I ask I don't
understand what duty to intervene means
excuse me dr. booty is Spencer if I
could just have you identify yourself
when you ask a question that's okay it's
just so they can transcribe right did
you hear that
lieutenant risk oh I did Mir that's
directed at me what is duty to intervene
mean yes
is it is it dr. Gutierrez Spencer yes
sir
dr. buta dispenser that basically means
that law enforcement has a duty to step
in when they observe one of their fellow
officers doing something inappropriate I
see okay thank you okay so the you
change the list on me here and that
makes one going in order yeah good so
we're next is ban shooting at moving
vehicles ban shooting at moving vehicles
is covered under actually quite a few
case laws I believe to from our Tenth
Circuit and I apologize I'm not going to
be able to quote them to you but
essentially what it says is that a law
enforcement officer has a right to
defend themselves from a deadly attack
and whatever manner they see fit the
stipulation in the case law is that a
police officer cannot put themselves in
a position of peril to justify a use of
deadly force plain language you can't
step in front of a car and then use
deadly force to stop the driver but if
the driver is trying to run you over
you can answer that threat with deadly
force
okay and lieutenant looks like deputy
chief Dominguez is on I'll go ahead if
you don't mind
you did a admirable job and in dressing
these and maybe you get a promotion I
don't know but we'll go and go to Deputy
Chief Dominguez and deputy chief would
you go to the last one require
comprehensive reporting will leave
continuum to last as that one I can
actually speak on as well why the
council changed that years ago but if
you wouldn't mind going to the last
point and then which is the last point
was require comprehensive reporting and
then and then use they require the use
of force continuum as the last point to
talk talk about and then I'll probably
chime in on that as well oh man really
did you want the graphic up or would you
rather have
powerpoint list either one
the list is finite the because yeah okay
look at us David if he could show that
again yes I will share that Adrian thank
you
let your picture David the list
darlin Thank You Mara I'll switch it up
to the listing
okay so DC Dominguez you were there yes
sir good afternoon all my apologies I
tried sharing this exact same screen and
my computer went blank at the same time
among my apologies
joining Amla as well as lieutenant
Brisco who's white he's a recognized
use-of-force expert recognized in the
courts these are these are guru if you
will and use enforced so perfect that he
was handling the the my absence a
lieutenant Kinney
Rebecca Kenny is also on board she's
internal affairs for us and lieutenant
we Dollaz charged at Department training
for us DC Brock is also trying to get on
or he may also be on as well but as as
we talked about requiring comprehensive
reporting so we are you so forest policy
already requires that uses the force get
reported both through incident report
and then we have this software called
blue team where officers have to
specifically describe what what type of
force they used a different criteria on
that use of force on the blue team
once that blue team is filled out it
gets sent up to a supervisor first-line
supervisor reviews it the review is then
moved forward to a lieutenant the
section lieutenant and reviews it and
then it gets sent out to internal
affairs anywhere within that that chain
somebody can send it in for a
use-of-force review there's anything
questionable or unexplained so any
supervisor or the officer themselves can
send anything up for use of force review
currently our again we have it in our
use of force policy we have an updated
policy
I meant start this off by saying that I
was gonna refer to our updated policy
because in last year
chief Gallagher had ordered that all
critical critical policies get get
looked at updated and
and reviewed and the use of force policy
was one of the main ones we have that
updated policy as a matter of fact
lieutenant Brisco and the other subject
matter experts have that bat polisher
another going through it as soon as
that's done it goes to administrative
review and then it goes up to the city
attorney for final approval then we we
put it into policy and it's trained that
being said we do have a use of force
policy and the updated version of it
will also have a show of force that
lieutenant Kenny could probably speak to
as well we're talking about having a
point a gun and on off somebody or a
Taser or the like we're still working on
that on that Burbage as far as the
policy is concerned but once it's done
we'll send it up to the city attorney
and have it reviewed so the policy
already requires comprehensive reporting
what we're making it better
sure and then did you cover the use of
force continuum the use of force
continuum I'll just refer it to
lieutenant Brisco our subject matter
expert on use of force the new standard
obviously is not we don't use reactive
control models anymore the new standard
is objective reasonableness somebody
that one of the emails that you received
hit the nail on the head with it with
their explanation of it but lieutenant
Brisco you want to go ahead and talk
about that I'm happy to deputy chief
Dominguez mayor and answer your your
question about requiring use of force
continuum x' they did have a phase of
very high popularity and very high use
in the late 70s through probably the mid
90s but a lot of departments started
steering away from them after Graham V
Connor was decided the verbage from that
case law actually says that a reasonable
use of force is not capable of
precise definition or mechanical
application and any control matrix
whether it's the Canadian model or the
RCM that was used here in New Mexico and
in Oklahoma for years is an attempt to
apply a reasonable use of force to a
mechanical application it might give you
a good idea of are you in the right
realm but there are a lot of things that
a control matrix just cannot account for
and they tended to cause inaction and
officers hesitation and it would also
give someone looking at the matrix the
impression that all officers had to
respond to a particular use of force
situation in exactly the same way I hope
everyone can appreciate that
a physically fit 220 pound officer that
benchpress is 310 pounds is going to
respond and should respond different
than an officer who weighs 115 pounds
and can only benchpress 120 pounds or
even less so most of our use of force
instructors in the city of Las Cruces
police department that we've either been
to the New Mexico Department of Public
Safety's new school which teaches on
basically what's called the federal
model using case law Graham V Connor
Tennessee V garner a couple of the cases
that I already mentioned Scott v Harris
and we do refer to a reactive control
model but it's mostly in a historical
sense we don't go into the kind of
detail that was done in previous years
before even the New Mexico Department of
Public Safety adopted the federal model
which now they call response to
resistance
very good okay well thank you for that
so what I'm gonna do is I want to ask
our guest dr. Greene or dr. T a
dispenser if they have any questions and
then I'll go I seek counsel Bencomo has
that question but dr. Greene do you have
anything you would like to ask on these
eight items yes okay I do have a
question about the use of force
continuum in them and the reliance upon
case law my concern is that the problem
of mass incarceration is a direct result
of questionable judicial system and so
relying upon that same judicial system
that has led to the mass incarceration
seems to be just ineffective in in my
book and then I have a question about
the the neck restraints when was that
banned here in Las Cruces
keep dominguez deputy chief flamingos
mayor Bobby green dr. Bob between in
reference to the the vascular neck
restraint that was the chief put out a
directive on March 2nd of this year
banning the use of sq and neck restraint
okay so in the case of in Tonio anthony
Valenzuela excuse me dr. green I'm gonna
ask that we not we can't really bring up
anything that's okay sorry
understood I understand okay I do have
another question about the shooting at
moving vehicles do you have a ban on
shooting at unarmed people what's what's
the policy on on an unarmed person if
deputy chief Dominguez this is
lieutenant Brisco do you want me to feel
that question or would you prefer to
field it go ahead
I was about to tell you um dr. green
mayor mayor gajima our use of force
policy is very much in line with case
law and what that means is that it is
possible to have an unarmed deadly
attack so if somebody is even without a
weapon posing an imminent threat of
death or great bodily harm to an officer
there might be circumstances that exist
that still deem a deadly force or a use
of deadly force as reasonable on the
part of the officer so an answer to your
question dr. green specifically no the
use of force policy does not prohibit or
ban a use of deadly force against an
unarmed person but certainly all of the
training would discourage such an action
okay then my other question is the
comprehensive reporting who's doing the
reporting and who are they reporting to
that's Shane go ahead is it cheap what's
your title shape so the the
comprehensive reporting is done through
an incident report
first of all just a normal everyday
police report then on top of that we
have our internal Blue Team police are
our internal use of force called Blue
team and then it's reported up up the
chain into the internal affairs office
or section and then we reported out as
annual report is there any penalty for
falsifying a report if not you've been
there so there's a penalty for
falsifying any report okay then my last
question the duty to intervene is there
a protection in place against
retaliation for the officer who does
intervene can they report can they
intervene anonymously can they I mean is
they it seems like the reluctance on the
part of the officer who wants to
intervene is that the retaliation is
going to be severe dr. Greene
mayor dr. P there there would be I mean
we cannot stop that from from somebody
being afraid that they're gonna be
retaliated against but if we find out a
police department will we'll take care
of that issue we will investigate it and
and find the policy violation we will
make sure it gets taken care of to make
sure that officers are willing to
intercede and
thank you thank you dr. Greene dr.
Gutierrez Spencer did you have any
questions you'd like to ask yes thank
you very much so one of my questions is
do we have any sort of citizens review
board that looks at the activities of
the police or some of these reports do
we have anything like that in our
community
dr. Guterres let me just share with you
we do not and I'll be candid with you it
was there was something that in 20 2007
when councilor Silva and I and councilor
small were elected there were some calls
for a citizen review board I'll admit
that I'm not supportive of that I've
seen this work in other areas and and
frankly it slows the process down and
what you hope would be kept confidential
is not and so we used the organization
called Perth police executive resource
form that was retired a lot of them were
retired Chiefs that went on to get their
education their PhDs they came down they
analyzed Las Cruces Police Department in
2007 or 2008 they found like 90 plus
things wrong with the police department
subsequently we had actually had the
chief before that and two deputy chiefs
and a lieutenant retire in two weeks
okay so we were yeah it was there are
some things that led up to that and and
so there was an interim chief and then
that's when Chief Richard Williams was
hired chief Williams was a state police
captain I believe or major one of the
two and you know he loved when he had
assignments in Los Cruces he got the job
he he immediately almost in one year
cleaned up those 90 issues he realized
that the department didn't have any
senior leadership he elevated at that
time lieutenant
Jaime Montoya to a deputy chief and
[Music]
and I think I don't think were you there
deputy chief Dominguez or you were still
lieutenant who was the other deputy
chief that chief Williams moved up mayor
at the time that it was Chris Miller and
then miss Miller that's right
deputy chief Miller right and so they
really cleaned up things and so perf we
can only use them for so many years and
then we have to change every so often
and so the police department likes it
because they get the police themselves I
mean this this organization gets to you
know they don't like bad cops either is
it they just don't and so we've we've
used that model as and then if a
resident really has a complaint they can
go through them directly instead of
going through internal affairs so we
have found that that has worked better
than a citizen's review board so those
are my comments and that's why I support
that type of outside agency investigate
because they don't have the ties they
don't you know they don't have an uncle
that's a cop they don't have an app that
was in there you know what I mean these
are people from back east or wherever
they're from do we have to change every
so many years so that we don't get used
to the same ones over there or different
organizations that have these
high-ranking officers who retired and
bring with them most experience and then
the public policy administration well
thank you for that mayor because um I it
with a friend of mine who was on Leo
Police Commission in Riverside
California and that's one of the things
that she recommended she was on there
for a number of years and she was a
professor at the local community college
and she learned a great deal and one
thing she said was she urged was
transparency transparency transparency
they did have a citizen's review board
but one thing that they required she
said that was very important was that no
one on that board have any connections
either to government or the police force
and so in a community like ours I was
thinking about that that could be that
could be difficult
so but and I I do like what you said is
any resident can go directly to that
that border that group perf or whichever
one it is you're using at the time I
think it might be good to advertise that
more if you've done it before to repeat
that especially with the concerns that
are going on these days because I didn't
know that and and I imagine a good deal
of the community community doesn't know
that um Spencer we would every six
months on a work session we we bring
them down they have a list of all the
things that they've investigated and
they share with the council and the
public and usually the media will report
some instances that they have found yeah
and and so typically how it goes a lot
of times I get involved at the initial
level but there's been a couple times
that I've had to kind of move it up the
chain to this organization or that they
themselves can do it but usually you
know they sometimes feel better if I do
it and the person that is you know
sometimes they're a little a little
intimidated and so but but almost of
almost all the times that I've sat down
with with individual themselves I for
the most part I mean I tried it and I
believe I keep I'm biased towards uh you
know obviously anyone who's remember the
public who's a registered voter is one
of my bosses and so I have to listen to
what they have to say and you know but
there's a there has been a time where
I've had to send it up mr. mayor if you
don't mind yes who sits on that review
board oh it's not a review board it's a
it's an outside organization that it's a
professional organization it's usually
made up of retired police executives
that have either masters or PhD in
public administration and they usually
come down to review police departments
and find out situations that
might exist and then they disclose them
to City Council and the chief and the
public really because it's it's
televised so it's not a review board
it's a it's an actual agency is it every
six months or hell happened yeah we we
have them come down every six months
they're constantly I don't know exactly
when but they're constantly getting you
know things sent to them from the police
department on issues whether it's
eternal affairs or things of this nature
that go up to them for them to have
another set of eyes mm-hmm yes thank you
Mary so another question I had was well
I I'm starting off with a comment really
um I I do have an idea that I do agree
with the idea of having social workers
or the people that are there really well
trained in mental health issues involved
in our community work and you know
accessible to 911 dispatch etc I mean
I've had instances at the University
where some you know students or former
students have showed up acting very
erratic and later you know I thought the
person was under the influence of the
drug and and later a mental health
professional explained no it's not that
he's under the influences he's off his
medications and therefore you know
displaying these physical symptoms and
other things and it you know it's a lot
it's a lot to ask of of police officers
that we do ask them to do so much and so
and I think also because of so long no
matter who the police officer is many in
our community have suffered from
unfairness in the past so many in our
community have had negative experiences
either here or somewhere else and so
when Apple you know you do
I've heard of friends who've done a
wellness check for a friend and a police
officer officers respond
that can escalate easily not even if the
proof if the officer is is behaving in a
manner that supports de-escalation or
you know I'm trying not to escalate
things but those fears can be you know
instantly ignited whereas if we could
send someone else with a much more
Pacific mission and and you know an
identity not with the badges are not
with the guns I could see that is a real
and there have been cases where I have
not called the police in Las Cruces for
a number of reasons because either one
person was wealthy and white and the
other was for in black and I was afraid
you know they weren't gonna get equal
treatment there been a number of cases
that's just one of them and if we had if
we had an alternative however my worry
with that a price a little worried with
that approach and my worry with that is
training of the dispatch and I have
never heard you know anything about
dispatch in Las Cruces but I watched
some of those you know true crime TV
shows and you actually hear the dispatch
people and he was like oh my god
what are they saying or why aren't they
reacting or etc and actually I was in
one situation in Las Vegas Nevada where
someone was breaking into the apartment
below me and I saw the officers from my
second-story window I saw the officers
come in the car I saw them get out of
the car bring out their guns they were
looking for the the person that was
breaking in and there was a little
Terrace that went out over that that
apartment though dispatcher told me to
go out there and see if I could find the
guy and I said no thank you
they're police officers running around
with guns I'm not out there you know so
anyway so
Oh looks like looks like you might have
frozen there dr. Gutierrez Spencer
any further questions dr. Greene and
then I'll go to counselor Bencomo who
has her hand up I do have one more
question I'd like to know how is when
there's a dispatch when there's a 911
one call the dispatch just it's the next
officer available or the officer closest
or how does how does that decision made
air dr. green we have different
districts or police districts are
different than city council districts
and we have officers within each
district so it depends on where the call
is and what the call volume is in the
district sometimes depending on the type
of call there they might send officers
from other districts Jewesses obviously
all emergency calls of all officers will
probably be on the way to assist in in
what which it was just brought up as far
as the mental calls we fully support
having licensed psychiatrists or
psychologists and showing up to these
calls we chief has often said that these
these calls aren't police calls and and
she was correct in saying that when a
police officer shows up in a uniform
just that authority and the freight fear
having to go to jail or or something
like that
my escalate that that issue so you know
the exacerbates the situation so is
there currently on staff social workers
psychiatrists or any of those kinds of
people with those skill sets yeah in the
Los Cruces Police Department right now
no ma'am not that work for us no ma'am
it would would it be reasonable to as a
result of this reform I won't say be fun
but I'd say reform is it possible as a
result of this initiative to recommend
that we get some trained professionals
trained social workers and trained
counselors and trained psychiatrists to
handle some of these calls so that it is
not always an armed officer showing up
at the scene you know if it's a homeless
person then the social worker maybe if
it's a if it's a person with mental
health issues or a person that's
suicidal then it could be a psychiatrist
or somebody who counsel ER somebody
along those lines rather than always an
officer that would be I think a good
start
you know dr. green those are great ideas
maybe if we can circle back to that
after all the others have had a chance
to discuss that but I'm definitely gonna
bring that up I think those are
wonderful idea and also use this as an
opportunity anytime you or dr. Gutierrez
Spencer I'm sure that the police
department would mind if you wanted to
go for a ride along for a little while
you're welcome to I know they'll keep
you safe they'll probably put you in a
supervisors car so you won't be right at
the action that you'll you know you'll
be kind of there the police huh
I'm usually scared of the police I'm
sure though I'm sure though though
wouldn't mind doing that absolutely
you're always
Mary mean I guess she might can I check
oh yeah you're a better frozen yeah and
I don't know when I fro so I was just
talking about the picture of you two
thanks but if if we do implement
something like that which i think would
be a great idea if and I've seen cases
where that really would have helped in
town what wouldn't we need some extra
training of our 911 dispatch officers to
determine you know when is this
appropriate when's that appropriate
absolutely and I think that this
definitely would be future conversations
future work sessions to kind of bring in
that and then we're also going to have
to bring in you know we've got some
resident experts Mayor Pro Tem Condon is
one of them they could help us work
together to see exactly how we might be
able to do something like this but I
think this would be a great opportunity
to really go above and beyond and
actually address a lot of the concerns
that we're hearing that may or may not
be necessarily in this it can't wait but
it goes beyond earlier you hear and he's
very knowledgeable lieutenant Brisco
talk about certain case law but maybe we
can use this work session to look at see
other best practices that might be
developed they go beyond that it might
might work that might you know very well
might might be beneficial to everyone
concerned and and one more question do
we I I think we do at least in certain
neighborhoods I think I read in the
paper and it may not have been this
exact words but do we have to police it
community police efforts in Las Cruces
mayor dr. whatever Spencer that's
correct yes ma'am we have a community
partnership program that that's what
they dedicate their duties to community
policing
it but is it across the city or in
certain neighborhoods it's it's across
the city yeah we have officers assigned
to each council district as our peak
strategic plan evolves we continue to
evolve that team so each counselor will
know who their three policing officer
will be for you know for the next fiscal
year so they have a direct contact if
they have any issues I mean if I'm a
doctor Teta Spencer and dr. green I
think you've been pretty good everybody
and I've been negligent in not asking
you to repeat your name when you say
something because uh they're having a
little trouble transcribing that sorry
okay so you're good both doctors for now
and then I'll go to the council members
and then we're gonna circle back to Oh
before I forget dr. Gupta dispenser I'm
sure la Swiss police wouldn't mind if
you want to do a ride-along also maybe
you can go with dr. Greene yeah hey
there's an idea we can we can buddy it
up there you go as long as I'm with a
friend I think I'll be all right okay
I'll go with you dr. Jones thank you
okay so we have councilman como and the
mayor pro-tem gandara like comment
thanks mr. mayor honestly thank you for
calling this meeting I think it was very
important that you did this and I very
much hope it's not the last one we have
I think that we have the community need
to have a serious conversation about
what public safety means and whose
responsibility is to keep public Public
Safety beyond the police department
I'm concerned that to be really honest
with you though I'm concerned that it
can't wait is somewhat of a barrier to a
much tougher a much more important
important important conversation that we
need to have I think listening to
lieutenant Brisco you know sort of go
down that list basically citing all the
ways that Las Cruces police department
are
has all of these yet The Washington Post
is reporting a much different story
about Las Cruces so I'd like to
understand what the miscommunication
here is I also you know it's really
disappointed that I was not able to have
a civil rights attorney speak today on
behalf of some of these issues I think
it's important that she that lieutenant
Brisco know understand these case laws I
also think it's important that we have a
civil rights attorney explained to us
what some of these things mean as well
so moving forward I would love to have a
civil rights attorney present in these
calls moving forward so those are just a
couple the comments I want to make
before I jump into some of my questions
but I was really curious lieutenant
Brisco if you're still on the call
deputy chief Dominguez said that you are
a use-of-force expert what does that
mean how did you get that title what do
you get to do with it
okay councillor van como mayor Miyagi
Shima if I understand the question you
just want to know how I became a
use-of-force expert and what that
entails yes sir
on accident truthfully Chief Richard
Williams which was mentioned who was
mentioned earlier um asked me through
the course of my duties to basically
start doing used to force review meaning
that as deputy chief domain needed to
earlier dinner a review process somebody
said they were not sure if this is a
reasonable use of force or not somebody
probably really makes needs to take an
in-depth look so I reviewed it I
submitted a memo to Deputy Chief Richard
Williams and then I he dropped my name
to a couple of attorneys as being able
to explain things and I was contacted
initially by rusty Babington of the city
of Las Cruces attorney's office and he
asked me to do an expert opinion I I
went to federal court up in Santa Fe and
was certified as an expert the judge and
the attorney did of whadya asked me
about my skills my knowledge base and I
was sworn in for the first time as an
expert witness in federal court then
I've been asked to offer opinion on a
couple of others and not on an expert
opinion but on a an internal memorandum
I was subpoenaed to court here in
district court as an expert I hope that
answers your question counselor : yes
definitely so it's my understanding do
you usually speak on behalf of police
officers who've been
whoo there's been a complaint against
them for use of force well if I
understand your question no I don't
always support a police officers
perspective there have been numerous
occasions that I said that the officers
use of force was unreasonable got it
thank you I think you know I think some
of what I'm hearing even the mayor say
in terms of police officers sort of
investigating each other I think I find
that very problematic I you know I'm
curious about the agency mayor that
you're speaking of obviously I've been
on the council six months so if if the
agency comes every six months and I'm
hoping they're coming soon but again I
think it's very problematic that there
are internal sort of measures to hold
colleagues accountable I think that you
know this conversation sure it is about
those eight things but it's also about I
mean I want to remind my colleagues in
the community that this is not about us
questioning there's not a question about
a particular officers character or
personality this is about questioning
the systemic flaws I have played law
enforcement for a really long time the
lack of accountability the lack of
transparency the impunity right and I
think some of some of those things have
sort of become true in law enforcement
because of some of these issues right
where there's officers sort of that get
to police each other and I find that
very problematic mr. mayor do you know
when this agent so first of all what's
the name of the agency and then do you
know when they're coming to us again
yeah if I'm a counselor when I say I'm
talking about cops if they see a bad cop
they'll turn them in that's what I mean
by police them Oh me I said if they
thought that if a cop sees a bad cop
doing something they'll turn them in
they've reported police have actually
reported an other place to this outside
agency
second I seem to recall that they were
supposed to come in either November or
December and I don't I can't remember if
the lead person became ill and wasn't
able to make it even might be able to
have that new name like I said it used
to be perf we've changed that two other
times because we've had it for a few
years I think every three or four years
we have to go out and bid for a new
organization or maybe even Jennifer may
know what I'm not Jennifer's on I don't
know um mr. mykos do you know if we have
that agency's name
mayor this is David's interim city
manager I would have to defer that one
to Jennifer I don't I don't have that up
top my adapt thank you okay no worries I
don't know if Jennifer's on or not
lieutenant Rebecca Kinney um mr. mayor
um concert Macomb I think I might be
able to answer your question uh what
we're referring to is the police auditor
and our previous auditor we had from
August 2014 up through 2019 and that was
PSS gee that was the most recent police
auditor that we have currently we do not
have an auditor in place but it's in
process my understanding and who gets to
the counts will get to choose that
auditor I would have to defer to mrs.
Vega Brown on the process or mr. Dahle
ahem we approve we approve and pay for
that auditor tell us where contracts
come Plus that goes out to an RFP
process it is reviewed by the sack the
sack creates the RFP and we are in the
process of finalizing the RFP we had to
make some changes to it based on some
additional input but it is created by
the sac and then the final contract is
approved by council
I'm sorry you're gonna have to explain
to me what the sack is selection
Advisory Committee it's part of the RFP
process oh and this is our piece for
everything and anything that's correct
and this sack I couldn't tell you there
was there were several city employees
present but we also included State
Police city of El Paso Police
represented representative a
representative from da so and LCPD we
also had the el paso city of El Paso
internal auditor present we had our
internal audit team present I was
present and there were several people as
part of that sac great so do you was the
RFPs that you looked at were they
predominantly made a deters made up of
other police officers mayor and council
the we were creating the RFP we haven't
committed it out for responses yet do we
have a timeline for when we want that in
place that was we had intended for it to
be in place a couple of months ago we
had some changes that we needed to make
some adjustments and so our internal
audit is in charge of that now and we
are finalizing it now great I mean I
think the moment we're in right sort of
calls for the urgency and this I think I
would definitely like to see that come
to a close pretty soon but thank you
Jennifer I appreciate that is the
general public get to review the RFP
process dr. Bobby green speaking yes
thank you
I'm sorry ma'am could you please repeat
my question is does that RFP get
reviewed or the candidates who submit
their proposals does that get reviewed
internally or is there an opportunity
for community members to review review
the candidates who submit proposals the
there are members
I couldn't tell you exactly who the
members of these DAC are they are
reviewed by the staff and I can let
David Dolan hat or Barbara DeLeon speak
to this they are because of our
procurement code there's a big deal of
it that is confidential and so it is
awarded Thank You Jennifer
um this is almost speaking again um and
then deputy chief Dominguez a couple
questions I have for you next in terms
of the moratorium that was established
on March 2nd around the neck restraints
and then you I think lieutenant Brisco
said they're not being taught in the
curriculum is that since March 2nd as
well that's correct
deputy chief what what are the policies
and procedures around accountability in
terms of what happens if one is used if
an officer during this moratorium piece
or when it's banned does use an extra
trick straight that ends up in severe
injury or or death maricon cervical now
they are in use however all referred to
lieutenant Brisco so we can explain how
it is a if an officer's life is in
extreme danger you know they they will
they would be allowed to use whatever it
is stay alive lieutenant Brisco you
wanna
you want to add to that yes deputy chief
Dominguez I'd be happy to answer that
councilor Bencomo mammary yoga Shima
this is this is a great topic that I
feel like we've kind of touched around
and I want to make a clear distinction
there's a difference between an
excessive use of force and a use of
force that is out of policy E or not
consistent with the best practices of
law enforcement a an excessive use of
force can be a policy violation or it
can move all the way up to a violation
of law so if an officer tonight were to
use any kind of neck restraint of course
it would be reviewed it would be
investigated criminally if there were
criminal charges that needed to be filed
they would and would also go for a
review so it's possible that even though
it would be out of policy it would be
found to be a reasonable use of force so
if it was like say deadly force
circumstances the officers fighting for
his life he uses it that could be a
reasonable use of force under criminal
investigation and under internal affairs
but it would be a policy violation and
the officer would get disciplined would
ultimately get to decide that
counselor Bencomo
very very I'm going to interrupt I'm
going to advise that we not talking why
not discuss this particular topic
further and we are in active litigation
and I would ask that we talk in terms
but not about this specifically all
right Thank You Jennifer
any other questions
also Bencomo I'll just move on in terms
of sorry I lost my place here um in
terms of comprehensive reporting um
deputy chief you spoke about this team
blue process I mean I think there's
definitely comprehensive reporting that
should be public around excessive use of
force use of force reasonable use of
force complaints regarding this I
believe all of that should be public um
however I think you know when we talk
about comprehensive reporting I'm also
curious about you know I asked for an
in-depth review of the police budget and
you know I apologized to the community
for not having us to in-depth questions
during the budget process you know as a
new counselor you just don't know what
you don't know but you have my
commitment to ask these tough questions
moving forward you know there are
several line items in the police budget
that I would love I would love to
understand and I would love the
community to understand is that
something that we can do a next
conversation mr. mayor absolutely again
the counselor you know I think this is
just the beginning of of other work
sessions that we can have earlier you
heard dr. Greene and dr. Bhutta
dispenser bring up a couple ideas one
specifically dr. Greene said about maybe
looking at at using health mental health
professionals in light of police
officers I think that's an excellent
suggestion
so I can envision us having additional
work sessions on this and seeing how we
can actually make meaningful reform to
help both the community those affected
police department and and everyone who
wants to see some change and I'm and I
think if we can move in that direction
that would be a great thing
great I agree mr. mayor um in terms of
lieutenant burrs core deputy chief
Dominguez in terms of trainings training
materials for use of force de-escalation
racial bias we have all of those right
counselor Bencomo this is lieutenant Lee
Toland
I am the lieutenant in charge of the
training academy and some ways too so
currently where we stand is at the Los
Cruces Police Department our Academy
teaches far above what the state
requirements are and that does include
additional hours in cultural diversity
it does include additional hours in use
of course it also includes additional
hours in things like verbal judo which
is de-escalation and in crisis
intervention training so here's the
thing with this situation and everything
that's going on right now I look at it
as we are all about reform what can we
do better what needs to be done as far
as our training and where we're at so I
can say yes that we do offer those
classes and again it goes above the
state requirements just so you're
familiar with what happens is our state
sets regulations as far as the number of
hours that have to be received to
receive a police certification we in
those specific areas go above and beyond
but obviously maybe it's not enough
maybe we need to have this discussion
maybe we need to take a look at reform
maybe we need to look at being like
agents of change
all right and so again this is what
we're currently doing but we're
obviously up for discussion we're up for
suggestions that's great to hear
and remind me your name lieutenant Joey
de la thank you played with tonight um
are these new training materials well
maybe this should be a question I would
like these training materials to be made
public as well and for there to be an
audit on some of these and honestly to
even have some citizen input I think
often we think of yes police are the
experts on policing issues but
communities are the experts on policing
in many ways as well and so I think
citizenry definitely gets to play a role
in the way that some of these things
should be taught particularly around
racial bias I think that there are great
folks in the state of New Mexico who can
teach around anti racism anti blackness
the way implicit bias shows up in
moments where we least expect so for me
I mean you're right lieutenant it is I
don't think it's enough right training
is just one step of the way forward it's
definitely just one single piece but I
definitely think it's a it's a piece
worth really looking at again you know
it's not even a maybe it's a it's
definitely there is something happening
in the last Cruces Police Department
that we need to have a public
conversation about and I would
absolutely expect that the men and women
of the LCPD be present at those
conversations and be cooperative and in
whatever way we move forward I want to
you know I want to step aside and let my
colleagues ask several questions as well
but I mean I really think like I said
it's really time for this conversation
about how we spend more money on human
services that actually work out getting
at the root cause of a problem we have
absolutely over relied on law
enforcement and the criminal justice
system to address the needs of our
people to address poverty to address
crime to be really honest with you law
enforcement will not address those
things it's very reactionary it's not
proactive proactive measures include
housing behavioral health services
rehabilitation services better schools
quality paying jobs health care
community infrastructure you know these
are the things that people who want who
are calling for a defund the police are
calling for an you know an investment in
the things that we have neglected which
is true just last week we talked about
the 24% poverty rate how about we invest
some resources towards trying to
eliminate the
here in Las Cruces frankly law
enforcement will never eliminate poverty
that is just not their role and so I
think this is what I mean about having a
conversation about public safety and
that needing to really ultimately change
but at all it is a two-way street
it's a peril it's a multiple road street
when we're talking about transparency
and accountability and moving forward to
setting up these structures that will
ultimately actually help with public
safety thanks mayor before I get the
Mayor Pro Tem Condon out let me just ask
the sheriff I just had her here in case
some issues came up with sheriff did you
have anything you'd like to ask or say
or well it's a gigantic topic as we've
all can see at this moment sheriff you
know if you just have you identify
yourself oh I'm sorry I'm Kim Stewart
and I am the sheriff and I appreciate
the presentation that's far from the
police I think they have covered a lot
of that well one of the things I I
concur with councilor Bencomo on is
improved training at the Academy level
we have an academy as well
I've been we just finished our
five-month Academy and I've met with our
Academy team as well as the state
academy director and to be honest with
all of us is we're still doing things
and training in methods that are quite
antiquated yes we do know about policing
but teaching is actually a profession so
I I have even looked at our own
situation and said maybe we should reach
out there is a proposal through the
Community College Dona Ana Community
College to have a regional academy and I
am at this moment supportive of that
it's one thing if we want to bring folks
from
that situation back into our fold at the
end of their three or four months and
have hands-on in terms of of shooting
and and so forth but I think there is a
time and a place to have real teachers
teach criminal law I think it's time
they teach these more academic areas
that as as has been mentioned with any
kind of cultural bias training etc so
that is the the latest that I can find
on training is teach a little a lot so
you don't do these big blocks where it's
easy for the instructor to come and show
up for eight hours you teach a little
bits and you teach it in context with
the whole experience so in other words
if you're going to do DWI training it's
wise to start with a car stop and end up
with field sobriety tests and end up
with writing the report and you do that
all in context because it's been proven
time and again through those experts
that that's how we as humans learn so I
think there are things and and we've all
seen that this is an enormous issue and
but I do want to support the fact that
training in this state could and should
improve from what I have observed thank
you sir Thank You sheriff okay Mayor Pro
Tem ganda thank you for your patience I
do I'm going to start off with a
statement as a social worker and retired
from the child welfare arena I worked
side-by-side with law enforcement
conducting joint investigations for many
years
these are the folks that I relied on to
assist me in the escalating a situation
working with people who were in fact
violent abusing their children maybe
they're their adult partners so I have a
lot of respect for what for what they do
as I know they had respect for what I
did and we would both say I couldn't do
your job and and I still I still believe
that in and I know that maybe to some
this is feeling like we're
second-guessing you but really I want
you to know that I am in support of of
you but I do believe that reform is
necessary do I believe that defunding
your organization is the right answer no
I do not
so I think there needs to be more
transparency absolutely yes the sitter's
the citizenry should be keenly aware of
the policy set forth by our law
enforcement officers and what the
philosophy of Chief Gallagher is very
specifically I think as as we all know I
think we've asked police the police
department to be all things to all
people and they could just cannot
contain it just cannot continue to
happen I'm a firm believer that there
are root causes to many of our issues
plaguing our city like poverty alcohol
and drug addiction mental health just to
name a few
and I just want people to know that I'm
firmly committed to police reform or
policy reform involving a collaborative
approach that includes our Police
Department community and us as
policymakers
and so with that I made mention some
areas of that are that are Pat I'm very
passionate and that are my expertise is
the mental health arena frankly since I
got elected I've been talking about why
the city who doesn't have a Health and
Human Services Department and typically
municipalities don't really have that we
look to our County counterparts for that
and that's been somewhat of a difficult
task coming together trying to determine
what the best use of that triage center
has been and so mayor in your state of
the city you talked about a behavioral
health district and so that's what I've
been working on for several months now I
glad to see Jeff Stewart on the line she
along with people from the judiciary
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people that are nonprofits or hospitals
everybody that provides some sort of
service along this spectrum
I've spoken to and where there is a plan
submitted to mr. Mitas and Lynne
Gallagher to develop kind of phased
approach one being as as you know Chief
Gallagher gave us some staggering
statistics about and and I think the
doctors have it right is looking at our
9-1-1 system what kind of calls are
coming in what is is law enforcement
responding to and what we know
specifically and I believe
wholeheartedly that this is more on the
lower end is that we have 1500 calls
that law enforcement is responding that
have something to do with mental health
maybe a dual diagnosis mental health
substance abuse addiction domestic
violence and half of those are
super-users so these are folks that law
enforcement keeps encountering that
might they might
address in one form or another
maybe determine whether they're a threat
to themselves or others need to go to
the hospital and and like I said I think
we need a different kind of intervention
and so the plan is is to intervene with
those super-users a more say pre our
proactive approach a preventative
measure where we're like a mobile crisis
unit that goes out addresses these folks
ensures that they're that they are being
assessed assessed as they need to be and
linked and referred to the appropriate
resource and then looking at a crisis
intervention intervention B it might
need a longer stay in in a facility and
so what does that look like here in our
community
I have to say that I'm definitely a doer
I've been pretty impatient or frustrated
about what's going on in our community
and we certainly need to push this
because this is something that that
cannot wait any longer we're going to
continue to see especially with kovat
some of the things that we are seeing
the kind of violence
you know we're hearing more often where
there's more violent crimes and and I
think the missus is the fact that people
are struggling and we need to just
intervene in a different way and I don't
mean with with the department so this
crisis unit would consist of
psychologists and psychiatrists that
have specific expertise and dealing with
crisis intervention and and and that can
can address people's mental health
stabilize them get them to where they
need to be
but then again we have to be able to
have the necessary resources like
housing and that's something that we
talked quite a bit about and so I'm I'm
excited about this proactive approach
again I just had a conversation with mr.
my assists last week and said you know
it's been a couple of weeks now that the
plans been on your desk and your staffs
desk we need to start moving on this
very quickly and I think that the the
folks which is a nice private public
partnership they are RIT stand ready to
assist law enforcement and and anything
that they need in terms of intervening
but also training and so my first
question is about someone mentioned the
training that is available to law
enforcement who is specifically training
these folks and what sort of expertise
and knowledge do they have particularly
around CIT the CIT training that you're
getting or that you provide for that
question to new tenant we below so she
can explain those certifications that
although instructors have consular
Kandra other counselors and mayor so our
Police Academy uses well over I want to
say close to 30 plus instructors some of
those are other law enforcement officers
that have received the training and
they're train the trainers and so they
sort of become a lack of a better word
expert matters but not core certified
okay but then on top of that we like sir
like searching out and seeking subject
matter as experts so for instance when
it comes to cultural diversity we
actually bring in a professor that has
taught cultural diversity classes when
it comes to case law we actually bring
in the DA's office we bring in the
attorney
and so it's not the sole responsibility
of one person I agree with this method
because what we've discovered is that
one person can't be like a
subject-matter expert in all of those
areas and so what we're doing is we're
seeking out individuals and we bring in
those individuals to teach those
specific matters when it comes to the
crisis intervention training that has
been a big push actually for the last
few years and so I can let you know that
we have actually developed our own
curriculum but working with dr. Pete de
Bosco again a doctor within the
community and then on top of that
they've developed a curriculum that has
been certified through our state so that
we can train it to our officers unlike
what is a requirement through the state
system what we've done is we actually
include a day of nothing but scenarios
in our crisis intervention training and
obviously that's going to include
de-escalation measures because obviously
in a lot of these situations
de-escalation is the goal all right um
now this is not saying that we are by
any means perfect can things change yes
definitely things can change can we do
it better yes I think that's what this
discussion is about like how we can do
better
so beyond that though what I want to
highlight is that after an officer has
gone through their probation so they
have been one year on the force we then
go further with our crisis intervention
training and we give them an additional
week of that training the reason we wait
a year is because we want them
experienced as an officer on the street
so they get it in the police academy
when they haven't been on the streets
just yet and then when they're actually
on the streets become the certified
officer they have a year under their
belt where they have had to see people
it's what we deal with we deal with
people when they are in a crisis
situation unfortunately it's usually
some of the worst moments of their lives
okay so we give them a year worth of
experience and then we bring them back
and say okay let's highlight some
additional crisis intervention training
tools and let's give you some more
scenarios and a lot of times what we do
is we make those scenarios very specific
to what we've seen trending in the
community that's another reason why
having a an academy at Las Cruces one of
the great things about that is we can
make the training specific to our
community needs
hence this has been a community need
before so we have realized that
community need and we have done
something about it does that answer your
question counselor I appreciate it
that's the tenant yes sir thank you
thank you lieutenant I I appreciate that
please understand I'm very sensitive to
this this issue of reform I can't tell
you how many times during my ten year
with cYFD Protective Services how many
times we've reformed and changed our
protocols and policies and especially
around our training units and and how we
did that so I'm extremely sensitive to
that and one of the things that being a
trainer and training others that we
found that the best model was this idea
of not waiting a year because we used to
do that as well and and we're losing a
lot of sensitive ground right when we
can correct things early on especially
when we're training up and certain
things they go and they get the
experience they come back and then
they're able to you know debrief and
talk a little bit about what their
scenarios are specific to any area
that we that we have identified might be
issues and identifying that working in
tandem with supervisors so I those are
that could be probably somewhere that
that might benefit you all instead of
waiting for a year kind of revamping
your training where you would look at
some of those things wrap you know
sooner rather than later my next
question is around you have made mention
we've talked a lot about use of force or
improper use of force did a lot of
research preparing for this meeting and
they talked about old models dynamic
resistance response models old ones and
new ones now did I hear you correctly
say that you're not using those models
per se that using more of a resistance
response model and can you explain that
further to for me lieutenant risky in my
natural
Airport em I think they said they're
using a responsible use response model
with the city used to use a reactive
control model which which is part of
that continuum that let me tell you
something we used to get sued a lot even
more so than today but anyway so chief
Mingus or lieutenant Brisco
mayor pro-tem Gandara mayor Miyagi Shima
the Las Cruces police department years
ago excuse me lieutenant can you state
your name I'm very sorry
lieutenant Brisco yeah so for years we
did teach the reactive control model a
New Mexico Department of Public Safety
who sets the basic curriculum for our
Academy
want to see back in 2015
adopted basically their version of the
federal model and they titled it
response to resistance not quibbling
over terms it's how we teach use of
force it's just titled differently from
New Mexico Department of Public Safety I
would say their current curriculum is
very similar to what we refer to as the
federal model which comes from FLETC
federal law enforcement training center
did that answer your question it did
lieutenant um thank you I I just I for
summary didn't capture that last piece
earlier so it solidified that for for me
and so as I was I was thinking that when
you're looking at this a can't wait
campaign and others that are out there
to include the use of force and the
models that you use how how descriptive
are you to the public and in what way
are you sharing with the public via your
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your police page on Facebook or whatever
about these these different things
because I think there's a lot a lot out
there that we could be assisting folks
informing them and what I've heard is is
when they've looked at our policies and
procedures it's been really difficult to
to find and and I think when I talk
about transparency I think those
things need to be easily found so that
people understand what you know what
your philosophy is what your policies
and procedures are if they have a
question or concern who they communicate
with and so forth mayor Mayor Pro Tim
Gunn da da so as far as I I will agree
with you the the website it's extremely
difficult to find some of the
information that's on there we do put
our annual report we put our internal
affairs report our yearly report on
there our policies are ready available
we have a robust opera section that how
any and any police reports and and the
like so we need to do better as far as
being he's more easily accessible but as
far as being transparent we are we just
be to your point we need to get better
at making it easier to access and as far
as explained some of our uses of force
are some of our policies people don't
really understand because a lot of it
unless you do some research on on police
work you you wouldn't understand some of
the vernacular in those policies but we
could do a better job and we try to do
that through our Clerk or citizens
Academy as well but we definitely
there's room for improvement there to
your point and and I'd like to thank you
for your for your comments earlier we
know you support us and you've always
been a advocate of mental health and
police and appreciate the chief mayor
pro-tem can I ask you a question and if
if we could maybe piggyback off what you
just said I wonder as a beginning if we
could take these eight items here that
both the deputy chief and lieutenant
discussed and if they can kind of maybe
respond to that or put that into some
type of explanation maybe run that
through the public safety review
committee and then once you have the
final product put that out on
on the seas website would that be a good
start I think yeah I think that would be
a great start I think the more the
community knows the better and I'd be I
think that's a that's a good start for
sure you know what like what the
lieutenant when he was explaining all
these I think what you're saying is the
public can't find out what what the
responses are and so we could even use
that take that into our public safety
PRC and then come up with the final
product share it with Council then it's
it's public information is that
something there DC dominguez lieutenant
risco Jennifer Vega Brown whomever is
out there that that's something
acceptable mayor that would be very
expensive acceptable I would like to
reach out to the city attorney and make
sure that she's okay with everything
that we're putting out there but I think
it's a it's a good start for sure okay
okay mr. mayor can I ask a question
regarding that and I know it can survey
that should we had her hand up but since
you brought this up I think what I would
like to see additionally though if
that's the way we're gonna move forward
with this conversation is what are then
the consequences for not following these
policies and procedures that are put in
place what are the consequences what are
the repercussions who gets to see those
when when are those made public I I
think that that it can't just be hey
citizen go look at the website and read
this thing it has to be and here is how
people are held accountable for when
they don't follow the rules and policies
in place I mean it you know it's
frustrating because well first of all we
can't talk about things that are sort of
the elephant in the room right and so
that makes this conversation a little
bit harder um but in the case of Eric
garner the chokehold that killed mr.
Eric garner had been banned in New York
already for years that officer
that essentially killed our Eric garner
for selling loose cigarettes was fired
five years after this happened and did
not see jail time right so there's
there's the case of John Crawford in
Ohio where the officers you know said
hey this is your warning and before it
it like seconds later shot him and
killed him his 22 year old kid and so
that officer also didn't see any
repercussions like I think this is where
the mistrust inherently is within our
community and I think it's important and
I know it's a hard conversation to have
I know it is I absolutely look problem
having the hard conversation comes from
Ben coma if I can continue on with my
questions of wasn't done and I just
wanted to there was a proposal presented
and I wanted to make sure that we added
something to it but I'll stop there so
you can continue Mayor Pro Tem I don't I
don't have the problem I think it needs
to go both both ways it needs to be
here's the policies and when this
doesn't occur these are the things that
are going to be clearly outlined for
accountability at all levels I think
what is happening here is there is a
certain mistrust that the public has
with the police department and if it's
people mention events and different
things that I know I've been a part of
with law enforcement trying to build
trust in a community and and I don't
know for certain that it works but what
I'd like to to to say is I think that we
need some surveying of our community but
in a lot of different ways we do a lot
of surveying from the city's perspective
online surveying and and we need to
develop a baseline of what the
community's attitudes are
and and then look to this police audit
mayor you spoke of the police auditor I
knew that I I know that I probably the
last year or so had been unhappy with
what they were presenting us I never
could get an idea of exactly what they
were saying the way they were presenting
things felt like they were uncomfortable
presenting things that might be issues
for them to the public and I was getting
increasingly frustrated with them and so
I'm glad that the RFP is out for a new a
new police auditor I think that's really
important and as we look at that I
really want us to consider a citizenry
board I think that's important that is
what another way that we get the
citizens feedback and I know how deeply
concerned mayor you are about that but I
just don't see another way that that we
hold each other accountable for what
what happens either that or we get a
really strong auditor that has no
problem saying the positives and the
negatives and with recommendations I
never felt like they were ever very
clear with us and so I want to make sure
that if we're going that route that
there's mechanisms in place that people
feel clearly open to share with us and
you know they we had we actually had
many every six months and they were
never hugely attended it happened during
the day and I don't think that that is a
great time to get
people's feedback is during the day I
think we need to really move towards
evening meetings where people can can
participate or find a different way
like if one thing zoom has done is you
know that with the amount of emails that
we're receiving and the petitions that
we're receiving for one thing or another
people are really paying attention and I
think this is exciting it's really
exciting I'm not afraid of that I I
think it's it's important that we get
that kind of that participation the the
other thing is let me see I'm looking at
my notes I am I asked for some data on
one the police audits mr. Mitas I
haven't received that you gave us a slew
of information that I I was looking over
but I'm I'm really concerned about the
data that's collected around
demographics all stopped searches and
seizures how people are collecting and
analyzing that data and how is it being
distributed and at the law enforcement
level in terms of looking at trends and
things that you're gonna need to tweak
within the department in McKinney yo can
you take that one for me you know we
were looking at where at the
demographics in and use of force
specifically
I'm not sure if I understand the
question
lieutenant Kenny I I know that someone
in your in your office is collecting
data I did get your annual report but
how are you using that data to effect
change internally in your in your
organization for example I know there
was a time that you didn't have your
police analysts now you have one there I
think he or she is up to speed or
getting there and so my question is how
are you using data to affect or to look
at the trends and and whatnot that are
that are happening within your office
and what would you say are our trends
that you need to be focusing your time
and attention on Janet Rebecca KD so as
part of our paper former centers every
month I put together the policy
violations that we have seen throughout
the year
and then those are provided to
administration for review we also do an
annual and engineer report where we look
at all of the statistics within the
department and I put together that week
forth and then that report is published
we also have an RD section who then
review our policies throughout people
and to determine if we need to do the
updates this person looks at updated
case law trends and law enforcement
things like that
okay my next question is on wellness how
do you look at that and what kinds of
initiatives do you have around wellness
within the police department are you
addressing mental health those kinds of
things mayor Mayor Koch M are you
specifically asking about officers
wellness
I am so we I mean we teach we have
obviously our our psychiatrist that
assists us with that we have the
Employee Assistance Program as well well
we are actually in the process of
procuring a wellness app which allows
officers to reach out anonymously to
psychologists and clergy and the like if
they are having any issues such as PTSD
and the like we do kind of look at the
officers that are involved with a lot of
these uses of force a lot of it is
typically because of where they work
some districts and shifts are Mel chrome
to uses the Force and the like and we
have in the past moved officers from
that district or from that shift to
limit their exposure provided everything
was was obviously investigated and used
force was actually found to be within
all we are taking a look at in them I
want to say with with with it should be
on board probably within a couple of
months so if the process has begun as
far as that's concerned
are there any other sort of perks if you
will
law enforcement in terms of exercise
time and things that generally you might
have made available to you at the at
your at your offices we have a doctor
kita Bosco had reached out to us and
we've been working in conjunction with
him and Bernie McCants at the city to
discuss that that very topic they got
together with us and we suggested
together coming up with some one-on-one
meetings with with officers and making
it mandatory
but we would also allow them to use some
some duty time to work out and be able
to burn off the stress that they have
after these sessions so we are working
on that plan it's still very raw but but
it is a planning in progress okay thank
you that's all mayor for now thank you
thank you we have a counselor basis to
be Thank You mayor um thank you to all
of our guests for joining us today and
for your input that you provided before
and thank you to our lieutenants and
deputy chiefs for helping us have these
conversations and answering a lot of the
questions that I know we have in the
public has this this is a tough
conversation this is a tough topic you
know I have a six-year-old that goes
from every other day from wanting to be
a ballerina to a police officer and I
think that that role what she sees that
job as it's a way for her to help other
people out and she wants to do good and
help people and I think that is for the
most part what many of our officers have
that same sort of sentiment
however we also know that that job comes
with a lot of power a lot of
responsibility and when you're then put
into situations that most people don't
have to face and expect it does change a
person and it can change a person for
better or for worse and I know that the
Academy does a lot in the beginning to
try to work on a disqualifying agents
that perhaps it's not the right for them
it am I correct on that lieutenant we
Dola counselors to be this is lieutenant
Wade Allah I'm just asking for a little
bit more clarity regarding a question
are you looking at our hiring process
for Police Cadets or okay so we have an
extensive hiring process where it starts
with the initial application but then
after that obviously they go through a
whole gambit of different steps that
includes not only a physical fitness
test it includes written exam it
includes a psychological exam it
includes a polygraph includes a
background investigation where they have
to submit a personal history statement
of everything where they lived every job
that they've had we go through an oral
board where they get interviewed by
fellow officers and that oral board
consists of officers all the way up to
lieutenants but then finally we actually
have a Chiefs interview where they
actually sit down with our deputy chiefs
and our chief and they go through that
interview process as well so yes getting
through that whole selection process we
attempt to vet out who we think would be
the best candidates for a police officer
because you're exactly right when you
said power and responsibility I I had to
laugh cuz I was like hearing hearing
like the superhero I was like you know
with great power comes responsibility
like it's true it's so so true so I
always like to tell people especially in
the hiring
the cadet we can train people to be a
warrior but what I needed is a guardian
heart I need somebody that has a heart
for the community a heart that wants to
serve and so ultimately me and this role
miss responsibilities like I feel that
that is is what I am looking for both in
the police cadets but then also in
police laterals when we open up our
lateral positions is that answer your
question yes thank you
and with a follow-up to that then after
after there already you know seasoned
officers do we do any type of that
psychological testing or any type of
those processes later on because as we
know when they are put in these
different positions when were they've
had this powered with this experiences
you know they see traumatic events there
in traumatic events do we do any type of
retesting on people to make sure that
they are still qualified for our
community to have that guardian spirit
as you say that is an excellent question
counselor and again it's lieutenant
we love for the record I feel like
you're connecting in on what counselor
gandara had to say earlier too it's in
reference to the officer wellness so
President Obama part of his 21st century
policing was one of the pillars that he
had was all about officer wellness now
since then as a department we have been
trying to implement and do better in
this area this is my personal opinion I
think we can do a lot more all right
currently we really don't have anything
as far as a structure in place that is
having officers like check in alright
but that's just it like and I don't know
if like Jennifer Baker Brown wants to
can but that's just it there's certain
legal liabilities of when you can and
can't have officers do a check-in
so hence similar to what DC Dominguez
was saying earlier us looking at this
app it has to do with officer wellness
this app is entirely anonymous and
unfortunately in the law enforcement in
community and sometimes in the community
in general there's this this almost like
stereotype that if you reach out for
help like you're weak and and trying to
let the officers know that that's not
the case is a difficult road to confront
I think we are better oh my goodness
gracious
I started LCPD in 2005 and I can tell
you yes we are definitely better from
where we were in 2005 but do I think we
still have a long road ahead of us most
definitely
and again I think we have to take into
consideration what we can and cannot do
we can order an officer for what's
called a fit for duty which is saying
okay there's enough issues that we are
concerned about you and as a result you
need to go see dr. Pete de Bosco for
example and you've got to have a
discussion we got to know that you're
safe on the streets um I can also let
you know that recently I saw how a
Minneapolis was like hey we're doing an
early morning like intervention system
that is something that is already in
place with our department and so there
are certain things in place that are
meant to help and assist in this area
but can we do more yes in order to do
more do we need more resources do we
need more people yes do we need more
training yes it's it's one of those
things where yes and it goes all back
into you like this larger bigger picture
discussion of what are we asking our
officers to be we are asking them to be
several different things and so as a
result yeah we have all of these
officers and these resources going to
these places that
do we are we able to cover everything um
I loved what everybody had to say about
like hey let's start the social workers
let's get people involved because yeah
we are not experts in those areas and
maybe we need to look at like trying to
again having the discussion about what a
reformed police department doesn't look
like thank you um Jennifer did you need
to add anything to that
mary marion council thank you I'll just
what LT just said there are several
things that we can do in assessing we do
have a fit for duty process we have for
duty policy both in General Orders and
in within our city personnel rules so
there is a process forth a fit for duty
assessment in addition to that when it
comes to psychological testing post
employment we do have to be compliant
with American with Disabilities Act
requirements so there is clearly a lot
that we can do but there's also a lot we
cannot do so we do have an assessment as
far as that for duty just like that was
just mentioned so that isn't something
that is unusual thank you
you know I think lieutenant you actually
talked about my next question that I
have here is what is the internal
culture with being open about receiving
mental health services and are there
repercussions for officers who seek that
out and so you briefly touched but I so
I think again counselors do a great
question and again I would go back to my
response that I believe the culture is
changing do I still think we have a far
ways to go yes I can give you a great
example as far as like the changing that
is occurring like there was an officer
not too long ago that came to me and he
talked about how yeah like he was
involved in an incident that caused a
lot of issues and how he openly
discussed with his shift that he was
going to go seek help
he was all about it it was interesting
because he shared that you did get some
Greek from some officers and nobody
really spoke up when those officers were
giving him grief but then after the
shift a whole bunch of officers came to
him personally one-on-one individually
and said thank you thank you for
speaking us to us because this is what
we need and so again I think it comes
back down to training and trying to
shift a culture again I I think we're
doing are trying to implement strategies
we talked about like like possibly
offering more like Fitness hours where
they can like again like giving them an
outlet that is healthy and in in instead
of possible alternatives like where
there are drinking at home or are
possibly having like multiple use of
force incidents and maybe we need to
look into this again it's just it really
comes down to how we can care for them
but then also I would like to point out
that a large part of that falls on the
responsibilities of your supervisors and
knowing your people there's nothing like
that can replace that hopefully that
answers that question
you it does for a lieutenant I guess
with the other lieutenant's here and our
deputy chief what message is but you
have for your officers about seeking out
those services since well together and
and how how do you see that happening in
your in your with your employees
major cultures to me that it goes back
to exactly what we were talking about
with these these one-on-ones with our
psychiatrist and and Bernie at City so
in discussing that with them he dr. de
Bosco implemented something similar in
Albuquerque and Albuquerque PD and he
said it was a it was a tough road to hoe
because they didn't want to do it here
you're considered weak if you go to one
of these then that's why he was
suggesting that we do it mandatory but
dangle a carrot and and the carrot would
be obviously the workouts ultimately we
can get officers to go to these it's up
to them to open up it's up to us to try
to make it not not not something bad but
let them know that everybody is involved
doing these everybody's involved with
these one-on-ones I can tell you from
from the culture not just in police work
and in every other job that I had nobody
wants to go and say I'm seeking mental
health or for issues that I have then
it's not been my experience with the
people that I've been around but it is
it is a stigma especially as a police
officer but we do need to have those
those conversations and we we have
started having them with our union
representatives and letting them know
this is we're trying to get people away
from from drinking and substance abuse
and and suicides or so there's a rising
police officer suicides throughout the
nation and that's what's really
triggering a lot of this for us now you
know DC Dominion if I can just jump in
you know this is exactly what mayor
pro-tem God that I would share with me
that we have to for just general members
of the public and even our the children
in school to be able to have someone
that they can speak to and get over that
stigma so not only does it exist outside
that but I appreciate your comments
because that's something there that we
need to let officers know that you know
they're human they're not enough Robocop
you know
they have a heart they have feelings
they see so much that it's so traumatic
I you know I've often said you know
that's a tough job and I just I couldn't
do it so I appreciate your comments on
that I mean the Consular yeah mr. baron
counselors so that can I just speak to
that really quickly because can you
state your name was about to get Oh
Spencer sorry um you're right this is a
very prevalent thing that happens and we
encounter a lot at a university like
animus you that has so many working
class students and I've actually studied
this um so asking for help is very
difficult especially for certain
sections of our populations living
Military Police working class people in
general and so there have been programs
that have been developed to get around
it and we implemented one of those it
she's got our programs and it was very
successful so what I read about was
there but there was a program with the
military and our soldiers will come back
after being deployed and they're
physically wounded or they have
emotional mental wounds and of course
they're reticent to get help because
they don't want to be helped they want
to be to help her they want to be a hero
so the military developed a program
where these people were enrolled to
train the the assistance dogs you know
the the dogs that the handicapped people
used but it was a ruse I mean yes they
were doing it but through that program
they gave the veterans training that was
targeted towards them and it worked and
there was no stigma and nobody spoke
about it they kept they kept it on the
Qt
it was very everybody who was trained in
the program knew it but the recipients
of the program didn't know what was
going on so we tried it it she got our
programs because in fact I used to train
our staff I tell you know we don't use
the H word we don't have it on our web
so you don't have enough pamphlet
because when we see oh oh come to us for
help students ran away so we developed a
program like that called freshmen
ambassadors at Lee said we're training
you to help other freshmen and through
that program we ended up having a
ninety-eight percent graduation rate in
that program now we weren't able to
continue it but but that's what you know
talking about changing culture it's very
hard to do so sometimes what may be
tried in some format is is to do a work
around that culture so thank you for
sharing that Teta spencer counselor
thank you you know it's been mentioned
before but obviously there's been
there's been a break of that public
trust with our police officers is at the
federal level state level and now in our
own communities I I wonder do our our
leadership here on the police force do
we recognize why that trust has been
broken and what might you have to say
about it and it can be in general
context or that federal level if you
want to go there but do we do we
understand what is going on on that and
why perhaps we're seeing these issues
come out to play
mayor Custer Stewie yet yes from from a
police officer standpoint and from an
administrative standpoint yes we we we
understand the the issues that are going
on both in the nation and locally we
understand that that that we have to
take a look a hard look and I guess this
is what we're doing and and would be to
be honest with you we actually started
doing it with the implementation of peak
because we started transforming our
department and finding out just with our
issue statements we started transforming
the way we thought we were going to be
policing to the way we need to be
policing for example supplying more
officers to our crisis intervention team
to deal with with mental health even
though it's been said that that's not a
police officers job we recognize that
those those calls for service are so
lengthy and there's so many of them that
we need of team of CIT officers just for
that so we do recognize a lot of things
that are we attract to our officers and
let and explain to them this isn't uh
this isn't anything but the public
saying we need reform here you know and
we understand that 100 percent Robert
Hill said the public is the police and
the police are the public we're no
different than than anybody else our
kids go to the same schools we shop at
the same stores you know we we are the
public we need to we need to be better
at it as far as unless of being more
more willing to speak to the public as
were out there and right now to be
honest idiots it's it's very contentious
we go out there and some in some sectors
there's there's some people that you
know they they blame us for everything
or they're blaming officers and ink
names and things like that we tell the
officers you know keep your head up be
professionals that's what that's what we
do
we we knew what we were getting into
when we started this profession and
sometimes you know I'll be honest with
you you know blame is easier to cast
them fit is to receive it's easier to
blame us for for all these issues that
are going on and and we we take our
responsibility we'll take our share of
responsibility for that but this is a
community problem so we we want to make
sure that we our officers know though
the we have to share accept our share
and do our best to make sure that we are
changing and transforming people's
opinions of our peace Police Department
thank you thank you for that and I know
we've talked a lot about the different
roles and responsibilities that you have
that technically you're not equipped to
handle I'm especially regarding the
mental health I think one of the topics
a hard one I think to talk about but
that of accountability and how how is
there accountability and what do you
think might be the what are the greatest
barriers to having accountability when
you have officers that have misconduct
mayor Councillor Suba if I'm
understanding correctly are you
inquiring if what what we do for for
officers that have misconduct yes and
since you're the experts in your in your
field and you know those technical
details what do you think are those
greatest barriers for holding officers
accountable for misconduct well I I
countered to say that we do hold
officers accountable we publish our
internal affairs report and and then
there we see we tell the public how many
people or how many officers are being
sustained on these investigations of I
have lieutenant
Rebecca me on board maybe you could
speak a little bit more to the LT and
excuse me a deputy chief looks like
Jennifer needs to jump in here real
quick Jennifer thank you Marian Council
just generally speaking to address that
all city employees are held to the our
employment rules we have our personnel
rules and we have and the police
department has their General Orders we
have to follow our personnel rules in
our General Orders in addition to
collective bargaining agreements so
there are processes in each of those
that we are required to follow for any
city employee that commits misconduct do
we have the numbers on like the
percentages of how many if there's
misconduct
how many end up going towards it's like
a criminal citation or how many are
given warnings do we have any of that
sort of data available Marin counsel if
you're talking about two different
things if if an employee commits a crime
that's treated very differently than
misconduct you have two things happening
at once you would have a criminal
investigation along with administrative
process those are two different things
and so whether or not somebody commits
crime
we have do we keep data on either I
would I don't know if we keep data on
neither I could we could check those are
those would be criminal investigations
that's me I think that might even be
part of the information that I know
myself in perhaps other councillors had
asked for earlier just regarding that
accountability standard yes I think
that's that's something that is a trust
that has been broken with the public
about what is that does that
accountability look like and so seeing
that data seeing master stuff that would
be very helpful I know for my own
personal knowledge and to help moving
forward with policy I can't say that
I've only been here for three years and
just prior to me coming here I'm only
aware of one city employee who was he
was actually convicted of a crime and
and has served time in prison or is
currently serving time in prison and I'm
aware of that though it it does occur
and those are public those are public
incidents when they occur there's
there's everything transparent about it
I don't know if that's a specific data
set that the police department keeps I'm
only aware of the one okay and then his
conduct would be a different one and
that would have different dad of hers
misconduct is an administrative matter
and
so that would be very helpful to see
that sort of data on that you know a lot
of my other questions have been answered
I think my last message or question
would be for leadership and I do
apologize that I'm having to say for
leadership
I had these specific I do think these
messages need to come from our police
leaders not because once again our
public needs to know this type of trust
but here it is so what message do you
have for our citizens that that trust
has been broken what would you like to
say to our citizens to have that broken
trust from the department their concern
is to be doing well we would like to
tell our citizens is that regardless of
what's what's been there what has been
said our officers are professionals we
will respond to your calls and to your
needs without fail we know that there's
a lot of mistrust out there but we want
to know that we want you to know that
you can count on us you can call us and
you can talk to anyone of us the same
again our officers are professionals we
are all professionals we're doing a
tough job and we are not perfect we make
mistakes and what will will own up to
our mistakes but ultimately we we love
Las Cruces we are a tight community and
we hear it every day from our citizens
and we we tell them the same thing the
protesters and anything else that's
going on we are in Las Cruces and we're
we're here to back you up we will help
you please please reach out to us and
and know that that we are a professional
organization and we really care about
what we do and care about our community
thank you and thank you Mary those are
my questions for now Thank You
councillor Bencomo did you have a
comment it did okay
thanks mayor um I mean I have a couple
questions but I also just I feel like
there's a couple things being conflated
here you know I met deputy chief
Dominguez much longer much before I was
on Council along with chief or old chief
may he rest in peace and I just feel
like there's a couple things just wires
getting crushed I deeply truck trust and
respect
deputy chief Dominguez so this isn't
about whether I you know this isn't
about the blame that's being placed on
LCPD there no one blames you for poverty
for mental health the lack of mental
health resources for crime even right
but there is there is a conversation
being had about police brutality that I
think needs to be addressed and it needs
to be the people who hold that power
have responsibility to address it to
name it to correct it and you know what
this isn't about whether I as a person
support police departments or not this
is about the desire to see transparency
and to see my tax dollars being used in
a responsible manner um their lives have
been lost
right like I don't want us to forget
that there have been lives lost and I
think people often go back to well maybe
they were doing something wrong and
there's here their crime crime record
those people had families that loved
them they had parents and daughters and
cousins and feels and Theia they had
people who deeply loved them so as much
as you know we're making this call for
LCPD officers who are who are people too
they're part of the community so so are
all these other folks
who'd come forward and said and have
perhaps been victims of police brutality
so I just I don't want to complete that
there are the the call for
accountability and a hard look at police
budgets automatically means that I no
longer respect you that's that's not
what this is about but there has to be a
time where we face the mirror and and
sort of own up to some of these things
you know and I really appreciate
lieutenant
whittler bringing up the 21st century
policing I hope that lieutenant I don't
know if your so on I do you train out of
that model I think that very good things
came out of that is that something that
you that you refer back to often so
counselor Bencomo this is lieutenant we
don't so that's really dependent on the
instructor teaching I can tell you that
one of my passions is staying up-to-date
on current events and what I would tell
you is referring back to the question of
like what are we going to do when
there's distrust and what kind of like
what do we do like that's a barrier now
echoing everything that the DC said but
I would also include that my philosophy
is that when there is distrust me we
need to be rebuild it that as leader
it's my responsibility to lean in as
later it's my responsibility to listen
to say okay what is going on here what
is occurring here one of our Academy
recently we had Kovac going on so all of
us were sent home right and as far as
like we had at the Academy online never
thought I'd be doing that in my life but
we did it one of the assignments that
they recently had is they viewed the
13th documentary and again like you're
you're talking about like this bigger
picture and I and I feel like by having
the discussion of how we have had
systemic racism where it started with
slavery went into the Jim Crow and now
it's possibly looking at like the
incarceration that are occurring but
again these are really big topics and so
I look at
and I say okay as leaders in our
community and all of us are there like I
I think this is a starting ground and if
I really reflect on and I've been taking
notes to as far as like what everybody's
saying the thing that I'm hearing again
and again is transparency and
accountability you want transparency and
accountability and my guess would be
that if we're gonna fix that distrust
that is exactly what our citizens are
going to watch as well thank you for
saying that lieutenant I really
appreciate everything you just said very
much you know and I think it's a you
know it's important that you say yes you
can call us you can trust us we're there
for you um the truth is though that you
know mayor pro-tem said oh we have to
take the temperature of our community I
have friends who have black teenage sons
who do not trust and do not feel safe
around police officers that is not made
up that is just as much as I will never
know what your job is like I'll never
know what being a police officer is like
I'll also never understand what it's
like to be black in America and that
experience needs to be taken seriously
and in our communities it's not just
black and white issue right in our
communities it looks very different than
that but I think it's important that we
have some of those conversations and so
I really appreciate everything that you
just said lieutenant you know and I
think I want to point out that I think
it's important that we pointed out right
that you said perhaps to that you you'd
need more resources the reality is
though that the LCPD budget is the
largest budget in in the general fund
perhaps next to Public Works it is the
largest budget right and so I think it's
important that we know that the police
department already has a lot of
resources and that we should be
leveraging those resources in a much
better way because there is something
inherently that is not
and I'll just end up that I have a lot
of questions I will send them off your
way I don't want to get in trouble for
what I can and cannot say may be my last
question will be though is when can we
have a conversation publicly about use
of force reasonable and in that sort of
conversation from earlier will we be
able to have that eventually you know
counsel become yes we will in fact that
I was already writing down the takeaways
that I want to leave this evening and
that's one of them I'm just gonna wait
for you to finish it looks like dr.
green has another comment and then I'll
just go over the two or three things
that I've what I'd like for us to move
in the next direction okay maybe my last
point though mayor that I remembered
from earlier on the data this councillor
Bencomo and I think lieutenant Kenny was
answering some data questions I'm
curious about whether we have data on
complaints around use of force and
whether we know if they're going up or
they're going down like what are the
numbers in the last 5-10 years on on
complaints on use of force and and you
know their trend
mayor comes from equality Ulta for that
one - lieutenant Kimmie she has the
statistics on what have to finish up her
house 2018 data in order to compare it
five years back 2018 the journal Affairs
report does show a five-year I don't
have that data in front of me right now
in order to be able to speak on it but I
can definitely get the data I would
really appreciate that lieutenant Kimmy
thank you um that's it mr. mayor thank
you thank you dr. green Bobby green you
have a comment question yes Thank You
mr. mayor and all and thank you to
everyone who's taking the time to listen
to this discussion and to hear our
concerns I am a member of the New Mexico
law Enforcement Academy board excuse me
dr. Greene can you just state your name
again please Bobby green I am a member
of the New Mexico law Enforcement
Academy board and sitting on that board
I see the reactive part of this
situation you know as opposed to the
proactive meaning that I see the cases
board word to the board to whether the
police officer will remain a police
officer or not and my concern is that
some of these cases indicate that there
is a need for betting and cycle
psychological evaluation at the
beginning of the process so that they
don't end up at the end of the process
with us deciding whether they should be
certified or not
and so it would really be good if the
betting would happen in conjunction with
the community because I can tell you as
it as a black woman in America when I
get stopped by a police officer I am
terrified and I can usually tell pretty
quickly if this is a good cop or a bad
cop we instinctively know and so it
would be good to have some community
members on there who could could look at
the person's psychological profile and
how they answer questions and in their
body language and things like that and
what