what you're saying about the mixed
density
um but i do not wish to live next door
uh to a a four plex
[Music]
when we built the home we we looked at
the surrounding neighborhood
it was single-family homes looked ideal
a lot of walkability to restaurants
um and and other things we might want to
do and that was very attractive
we came from apartment land um i i'm not
sure why you're saying that there isn't
mental housing because we came from
where that is that that's where we were
living
uh up off trevis um
those areas um but i i don't know
that much about what's what's available
not available in las cruces
um but i am concerned about increasing
the density
to the degree that mr noel is talking
about doing
and what that does then to the noise
to the parking because he's only going
to have a single garage
and then he wants to do one and a half
parking spaces so
there's a half space per a
three bedroom um
four plex which works if you've got a
family that only has
one two vehicles but
if if you have more than two vehicles
um they're gonna have to park on the
street there's nowhere else that they
can park
um
plus an increase in parking on the
street um
i mentioned the solar we plan to put
solar um we built small
we built a one story that was that was
our choice
um and i know that mr noel is building
within what is allowed
um we do have some concerns about if
that is going to cut off
um available sunlight to our solar
because we are small and because his
building is going to be seven feet from
our property line and again this is all
allowable within code uh but it
it's difficult to be the person living
next to this proposed
project um and had we known
that the city might approve this and
that this was a possibility
we would not have built here um so
i know that the infill development is to
try to get these vacant lots
utilized and i'm all in favor of that
um but again
the elevate las cruces said what is the
impact on the community
and i think you need to look at what is
the impact on the community
you clearly have a neighborhood that
does not want
this project as it currently stands
um where are you timing
madam chairman this is larry uh larry
nichols um
i have time to she actually the
spokesperson has actually gone over
about a minute
of time but she was mid-sentence so i
didn't call it
okay okay so um yeah i think we have to
move on and
and we would ask that if other people
want to talk that
if you please if you have new other
things to say
but not repeat so that we have a chance
to hear
everyone say whatever they need to say
but let's not
repeat things that have already been
said so
could we go on to um daryl
hishikley i don't know how to say your
name
and you can just say i agree with
everything somebody else said
too so that's okay
my wife says if you just ignore the sea
it's easy enough to pronounce it
oh you're just here and that's daryl
okay daryl all right got it
um i'm at 17 and
10 arizona avenue right next door um
i was particularly interested in the
information from the infield development
on page five it says that the
development should be compatible with
existing architecture landscaping and
character the surrounding neighborhood
i would submit to you that quadplex is
not compatible
with the neighborhood as indicated by
the size of the building and the density
is the primary factor
comprehensive plan also states
that density
and land use is important in terms of
encouraging the infill and i would
suggest that
allowing a fourplex next to
our house and our neighbors houses which
are all single family houses
does not respect the density of the
neighborhood
i also want to say thank you very much
to mr gordon mr guerrero
and mr smith for doing site visits
that to me says that you guys are
interested in what's going on and that
you're not just a rubber stamp
board thank you um we also
we're looking at solar and i'm wondering
if this will
affect the solar and i think there's
some law which i
did not look up didn't have time to felt
like this was rushed to get this meeting
in
that says that blocking somebody else's
solar
is an important issue i was one of the
people who
said i got this informed of this meeting
12 days before the
meeting not 15 is required i was told by
mr nichols that they felt this was
adequate because it was mailed on time
and i suggest
that what's important is notifying us
not just when you mail it
and i appreciate you all working hard on
this thank you
thank you and is there anyone else who
wants to speak
gregory oh your last name went away
can you state your last name for me i'm
only getting part of the letters
oh here we go nope juranic
greetings chairperson can you hear me
yes i can hear you
we can hear you thank you chairman
thomas
um i am with a resident of arizona
we are using a hot spot uh he would also
like to speak
and catherine was notified about this
his name is bob duffy he lives directly
across from the property
at 1771 arizona avenue
so i would like to turn it over to him
to allow him to speak
before i speak
to the community i would also like
catherine to put up a
powerpoint of the actual lot
that shows the five lots that are
on this vacant property so that the
committee
actually can see how constricted
this unit will be with the other four
lots
that are on this property
it's not showing
okay mr duffy are you ready to speak
yes ma'am um the lot
shot is not very good because
i don't think that a lot of people
understand there's three lots
across facing basically sort of facing
rio grande
and when you if when you stop and look i
wish they was marked better
on the property when you put four pieces
four four the car quad plex
on on one lot that's a really heavy
density
now let me give you just a little
background i have lived here since i was
two years old
my parents bought the property in 1952
and it's just gotten ridiculous on how
you're trying to cram everybody together
and we have enough rentals as it
is to college kids that we always end up
calling the cops over because
loud music and loud cars and and parties
and uh my my kids grew up here
uh being here my whole life and it and i
know
you couldn't care less that i'm the only
world champion
ever from the city of las cruces but
that's beside the point it would be nice
to get a little respect for it
okay now you have the other plow point
out and
that one spot in the corner is where the
four plex is supposed to go
in uh i'm just across the street just a
little further up
and like i said i have my parents moved
here with a trailer
and we built the house from the ground
up so
we've seen it get a little ridiculous
not to mention
that we didn't get near enough warning
on this
uh even when we got the letter was down
to about 11 days
so it would just be so nice if we really
got what we were promised as far for
time wise
and to maybe get things organized better
because this is just not right
madam chairman uh three minutes and 20
seconds
madam chairman gregory cervanic for the
record
thank you erva and ick
um thank you catherine for bringing up
the screen i am
with my neighbors and asking you to deny
this
it does not actually belong
in the neighborhood ethos of this
community
i realize that elevate las cruces
and the need for housing
as it stands however this gentleman
is making a business out of something
that
is a
realistically non-commercial area
i'm glad he's helping his parents out
i'm also glad
that he might be able to profit from it
but
the idp was not set up to be a
profitable
thing for a landowner unless they're
willing to make or have a business
license
for this property as you can see
if you allow these derivations uh
to the property then
the property will actually encroach upon
lot number 901 and
as you pointed out care thomas it's very
possible
you might consider these in the future
so if
901 wants to do it and 903 wants to do
it
then you have 16 people living
on that street times 1.5 cars
it's uh something that really
the commission should think about
elevate las cruces works
but it doesn't always belong in every
neighborhood
and i thank you very much for my time
anyone else who wants to speak
do i wait to respond
yeah i'll go ahead if you want to
respond yes mr noah that's fine
um if no one else
if no one has any questions commissioner
gordon if no one has any questions i'd
like to ask a couple things for
clearance for clarity rather
um i think mr noel wanted to respond to
somebody first and then we'll come
back to you no you need to respond
i was waiting to respond to everyone as
a whole
um so that i wouldn't take up too much
time
well maybe i can answer this question
okay go ahead
um
where did they come from 1.5 parking
spaces isn't it one in the garage and
one in the driveway
correct so how does that come to be 1.5
isn't that two spaces
that is two spaces to me to me too
i'm just wondering how to come up with
1.5 if somebody could answer that
question for me
commissioner gordon this is david weir
the 1.5 is a requirement when you have
the the parking requirement when you do
a quad plex in a zoning district that
it's allowed so
that would be a minimum requirement for
those type of uses
with the minimum requirement but there
is actually two spaces
correct okay
and then uh mr nombre just one other
clarity i'm sure you're going to have
you're going to be living in one of them
your parents are going to be living in
another
you're planning on renting out the
remaining two
and i think that you will take in
consideration the type of purchase that
you're going to want to live there
yes that is correct um so
i just want to make it clear this is not
the first time that i've dealt with
tenants um actually because of my
responsible
nature um the owner of johnson's trailer
park
uh entrusted me managing johnson's
trailer park
um for from what was it
like the middle of 2018 to the middle of
2020 basically due to the pandemic i
didn't want to deal with people
um so and and just to
i guess try to calm the situation
karen and daryl were the first people to
know
uh back in may what i was thinking about
i laid out all the plans
and um somehow everyone had enough time
to
um sign a petition uh just clearing that
out there
but as for parking um yes there are
two spots and as an owner
as a as a you know landlord i
i can um you know limit parking
uh as needed um also
these are all things that i've i've told
uh daryl and karen over text
um as for noise i do not allow pets
um i do understand that you know the
backyard might be small
it is livable it's a livable backyard
it's not something out of
like you know crazy um
so i don't allow pets as for parking i
can't do
uh the two cars and make sure that the
garage is used for
one as a garage and not as storage as
well as the driveway be used
to you know help with traffic to my
knowledge there has
there's no traffic issues because those
those streets are not main streets
if there has been traffic issues as of
right now
um i guess i would like to know why
hasn't that been dealt
with by the community um and and
and now why is it you know i'm i'm
willing to work with the community
to alleviate that that situation if that
is a problem
um let's see as for solar
uh again i have not shown
any disinterest in working with um
miss mr daryl and karen um as a matter
of fact i mean i told them
you know i wanted to do a three-story
they were like no so in order to
mitigate that even though
they had complete disregard for my um
you know motivation
um i did move it down to a two-story and
that's how
it was possible you know asking those
for those deviations
um as for the solar um if they would
like to
let me know um from the people that
they are asking to install the solar um
i my parent i've known that
the solar companies usually use the back
of the house
and as doing a drive-by from their house
they do have
their roof sloped down so that the solar
panels can
um attract or get the energy from the
sun from the back of the house which
my structure wouldn't impede um
as for the character architecture
of the um building
i am willing to you know talk about
color
talk about you know how close it is to
daryl and
karen's um lot um
right now i i think you only need five
feet
from the property line if it is the side
um
if that is the case i can totally move
it
to five feet instead of seven feet and
not ask for the 13
feet and two inch deviation on the other
side
um obviously i'm also willing to instead
of doing the seven feet on their side
probably move it
a little more toward rio grande street
in order to alleviate
um you know karen and daryl um
let's see uh
that's for the closeness to the next
door also
um let's see
yeah so i mean las cruces is growing uh
traffic
has been growing the tent i mean the
people there
you know living there um they i'm sure
they were aware that you know the las
cruces population is growing
and there is a need for housing um
that's another motivation of mine aside
from
um you know my parents and all um
as for and also i do not need a
business license to own real estate um
that's why i bought a mobile home so
that i can live there
um not i mean i still rent and pay
the rent for the piece of land but yes i
will be living in one of those units if
approved and um i
will definitely put everything into
contract as per
no pets uh for the noise um
what else do the flats do uh the flats
are apartments on
nmsu they have like quiet time no no
noise
after i believe 10 8 uh 10 p.m
um i am providing you know parking with
the garage
the flats don't include parking um like
inside the units
because they're apartments um and that's
pretty much it um if we would want to
talk about
anything else maybe if the height is an
issue i do know that the piece of land
um has a bunch of dirt um
so i can definitely
i guess dig um and then also as per
karen and daryl's property um
they do have one car um i don't think
they have a problem with traffic or
parking
um let's see let's see a couple more
names here
um elizabeth sosa did you want to
say something
actually can you hear me yes
okay um actually i'd like to turn it
over to my son
uh i live at 905 rio grande street and
he lives at 905.5
rio grande street his name is adam salsa
and he has a few things to say here he
goes
uh hello can you all hear me yes we can
hear you
excellent um so as stated
i live at 905 and a half rook on there
which makes me
um about a property and a half away not
quite a direct neighbor but
the lot is on the corner of my street i
see it every day um
my biggest concern with all of this
uh appears to be look you can clearly
tell there's a lot of community
um i wouldn't say outrage there's a lot
of community concern about this project
and the biggest issue to me is the
builder is telling us
again and again i'll work with the
community i understand
the the context of this community and
the architecture and whatnot
but when he starts the meeting and says
that his primary reason for building
this property
is profit and then we talk about the
concern of density
and he changes the subject to i'll work
with you and i'll give the property
a different paint job or there's not
enough parking well that's okay they can
park on the street
i'm just if i'm just concerned that this
that this is being done in good faith it
it really seems like
the tone of this meeting has been
concerns from the community
and then attempts to trivialize it to a
paint job or too many pets
or well we really need property in las
cruces right now and it needs to be
built right here
i don't think the community is being
unreasonable um i think that a duplex
would be
accepted by many people here um
i think that there are plenty of options
here and the community isn't
hardline i mean in terms of expanding
housing in the neighborhood
the lot itself has been split into five
different plots of land
all of which i believe are planned to
have single family homes
so i i don't think it's unreasonable on
the community's end but i
am just concerned that we're getting
arguments in good faith here when i'm
hearing things like
well you're concerned that there's four
properties on this one lot i'll give a
different paint job
that'll make you happy that's my biggest
concern here
thank you um did anybody else want to
speak we have somebody who wants to
speak for a second time but we have to
make sure
anybody who hasn't spoken yet gets to
speak first
anybody else before we go to back to
gregory
gervanic the way you know that it is in
good faith
is the fact that i already made changes
before applying i already made changes
in good faith
are you muted
i shouldn't be muted now okay
um i'm gonna raise my hand again if your
dad's not gonna talk
bob duffy would like to speak again
chairperson
um also i would
like to make sure that the david noel
realizes that solar is not collected in
that manner
and as far as equity goes
this whole meeting has been about his
equity
and what he will gain from this and not
what the neighborhood will gain from it
and so therefore it is an unequitable
discussion
and i'll turn this over to bob duffy
thank you
thank you for letting me in one more
time i
his point of traffic is not a problem
come live here for a while i'll promise
you
that in the morning on rush hour
and also in the afternoon and i don't
mean build a building then live here
i mean i know you're going to build
something but the fourplexes
is just so outrageous that place is
going to look like a white elephant here
and but the the i have called the cops
so many times
about the the fast traffic plus the
amount of traffic
since you put table shooting speed bumps
whatever you want to call them
on colorado and we have the chicanes on
nevada
they now use arizona a whole lot more
not only more often more cars and that's
going to add a whole lot more to it
it is a real pain for me to get out of
the driveway
so that was really out
of context uh of really knowing what's
going on here
second of all it will not only block
karen and daryl's view
but also mine with the great
sunsets we have that the city advertises
quite a bit
when they're promoting las cruces thank
you
sorry
[Music]
thomas this is commissioner gordon if
there's no one else who would like to
speak i'd like to address a very
important
question i think at this point to
catherine
and to like to do catherine if she's
available
yes commissioner um gordon okay my
question is this
mr noel just made a statement that he is
willing to change
some of the setbacks which are not
as defined in his application
if he is willing to do that to give more
space
between the house and his neighbors
how do we approve this to try to be very
specific
as to exactly what he wants to do
perhaps that he might he
we might have to postpone this and let
him resubmit with new setbacks
because i can't remember what he said
about going from ten feet to nine feet
or seven and a half to five
or whatever i just
how would you do this i i i would agree
with you that i think that the most
prudent method would be to um
basically request that he return with a
new design
if he's interested in reducing those
setbacks to make them more compliant
with the zoning simply because it
is uh it is redesigning that footprint
it changes the nature of the infill
development proposal which is usually a
little bit more site specific than you
see say for a
for even a master plan or a zone change
idps are are really structured so that
we know exactly what's being placed on
them
when you receive a proposal of this type
so i would recommend
um that he would return this would be
postponed and that he would return with
a new design if that was the
desire of the commission all right then
when we
when we vote do we make that request or
can you do it now
madam chair if i may please this is
larry yes
mr nick i i would um
submit that the the changes i heard
uh mr knoll presenting about his
setbacks
um we're possibly a foot or two
one way or the other but it's it's uh
it's not going to make a monumental
difference in the overall
character but if he if he is determined
to
to change the uh the footprint if you
will
of the structure on the site we would
have to see that to make sure that
the project is still compliant with the
infill development code
which it is as it's presented now
okay uh mr knoll do you have a response
to that
okay thank you that was muted um
the only um uh
thing i was referring to is uh the
deviation
of the the secondary front yard
which i'm asking for a one foot
um one foot ten inch
uh deviation um
just to appease daryl and karen
from being seven foot away from the back
of the building it is not my desire to
completely redesign
um again i've already gone through
two redesigns from a house to a
three-story structure to a two-story
strut
two-story structure um and
you know i do live in a in a trailer um
i bought this piece of land outright
um actually my uh property tax is due
i could leave it vacant for a decade
um if i don't die by then
but um my desire is to
you know help my family but also this is
good for las cruces it's good for las
cruces having
extra housing it is good in the fact
that
um it'll stimulate not much not much i
know
the the how much it'll stimulate
the las cruces and the fact that there
are three
or four buildings for you know property
tax not
but not only that um
the people that will be living in there
will
put money into las cruces going to the
local restaurants going to
um you know investing their money as
opposed to going back
you know driving from either deming or
driving
from um you know even el paso
there are people that drive from el paso
and they aren't spending in las cruces
they're spending in el paso um
also you know and then from vado all of
those places
um that's another influx in las cruces
it's housing that is needed it is influx
of money
it meets all the requirements as it's
submitted right now
and i'm willing to you know
work with the community in terms of how
i manage the property
um and you know
i have done things in good faith i've
already went through two redesigns
one from my house to a three-story down
to a two story
um that's pretty much that
um i have a question for mr weir
this is um thomas um
this um side set back
um five feet on either side
of the lot line that's pretty common is
it not
uh madam chair five foot is for the the
side yard setback um this lot is a
double fronted lot so they still have to
provide a rear
um rear yard on the property
and so if you recall in the presentation
there was the deviations
and so there is a requirement in the r1
district that a rear yard be 20 feet
and one of the setback was proposed at
10 feet
so there's actually a reduction in that
rear yard requirement with this proposal
but you know tradition are there not
side yard
ones though that are five feet yes that
would be the requirement so
so one of his um lots or one of his
setbacks in this
um proposal if they were to build a
house
uh one could be reduced to or well one
would be five feet and the other one
would be 20 feet
and then you would have your front yard
setbacks along each street
okay thank you i'm we just had somebody
in our neighborhood
um expand their house and they went
right
up to five feet on the side before the
the spotlight that is
the minimum requirement for the
single-family zoning districts a
five-foot um
side yard set mate all right um
okay i would see one last hand here on
the attendees that's uh
elizabeth sosa again and then we're
going to move back move on
um yes i'd like to say that my husband
is attending
this meeting his name is steve salsa and
he has wanted to speak he says his hand
is up
if you could call on him to speak
um i don't see his hand up um
is there any way you can call on him to
speak without his hand up
i that'll that's up to the tech people
but yes i can call on him can you
make it possible for him to speak
catherine
hello this is
is this mr sosa
yes can you hear me uh uh commissioner
thomas yes oh good
my name is steve salsa i'm an attorney
and i live
at 905 rio grande street i um
first of all in as a technical matter
our procedural due process rights were
not adhered to here because we didn't
get sufficient notice
[Music]
another technical point that i'd like to
make and this is with reference to
commissioner
gordon's concern is that
the elevate las cruces unless it
expressly
says this overrides the in the
infield development process this then it
doesn't
and i think that you're exactly right uh
commissioner uh
uh uh hiton and um
and gordon in your concern that
this doesn't fit the character of the
neighborhood um
our our concern is it doesn't have to do
with the aesthetics
it's the density this neighborhood is 70
years old
it's very well established and there's
no property in this entire area that has
density levels
that mr noel uh wishes to to
put up here it's completely out of
character with the neighborhood and
that's our objection
the the name
we have gone through this process and by
the way
the the notice that we got we received
it on
november 12th and it specifically
references
infield development process so if we're
not going under infield development
process then why would we notice
in that manner um i submit that
infield development is the process that
you have to look at and the and you have
to take into
consideration the history and
characteristics of the neighborhood
this is an old neighborhood established
neighborhood with single-family homes
only there's one exception a block up
there is a a duplex
but there is no such thing as a
four-plex in this entire area
when mr noel is talking about um the
apartments that he's
making him close to making him um
similar to
and he's talking about by the university
yes in that area
uh where you have that kind of density
that's totally appropriate
not in the area here when he bought his
property
he knew very well it was under uh uh
our r1a zoning as did all the other
people that bought those lots there
and now he comes in wants you all to
okay him because he has a good story and
i you know i feel
i'm good for him that he takes care of
his parents and all that
but he bought the wrong property to make
the development that he wants to do here
and who has to jam it in in such a way
that he has to get a variance on
not a variance of deviation on every
single side
to even potentially put that much
density in that old neighborhood
but it doesn't fit in the least there
this history this this lot these lots
have a history as well
for the longest time it was occupied by
one house nevada's house
about um 2005 2006
they lost their home and a developer
bought it that developer came back
chairman three minutes madam chairman
i'm
speaking for a number of people i'd ask
for some
finish we came before
we came before the commission on this on
this same property
where the developer wanted to put six
houses the commission said that's out of
character with the neighborhood
and disallowed it that that developer
then decided to
subdivide the property into five
separate units which is now
what was once the nevada's house is now
at least going to have
four or five houses on it that is
appropriate in-field development
a quadruple a quadruplex in an area that
has no such thing
is completely inappropriate we ask you
to disallow it
at the very maximum i would submit that
a duplex if properly planned might fit
the neighborhood
but a quadruplex no way and what it does
really is it opens the door
to that kind of of filling in and the
thing is about
uh the comprehensive plan you have to
maintain the
the character and the quality of life in
the neighborhoods that are established
where these infield developments are
happening this thing is completely out
of character and the way you know that
is that in the seventy years of this
night
thank you i'm gonna have to ask you to
the 70 in the 70 years
not you you all are going to be if you
authorize this
thank you
okay i think we'll go back to the
commission now any f
final thoughts or comments from the
commission this is commissioner gordon
uh mr salsa just made a statement which
sort of
um echoed what i started this
particular item off with about that plan
uh who was i think it was david you
explained to me
that that elevate las cruces now
overrides that that is no longer in
existence it doesn't pertain
would you please make sure i understand
and fully understand
where we stand on that is this thing
then from 1985 still in effect or is it
not
madam chair and commissioner gordon
elevate las cruces as a plan
it provides the vision of the community
and the guidance
of the how you want neighborhoods to
develop uh
when the over the infill overlay was
created there was also a plan
and at the time it was adopted it
followed the
85 and 1999 uh
comprehensive plan what you have to make
your decision on
is the zoning overlay that's a part of
the zoning code
and that that specifies the process that
allows an applicant to make a proposal
in those infill areas and it is a
request
when you utilize the infill development
it has to be for a vacant property or an
underutilized property
and it typically allows some divi
deviations from the existing code
but elevate las cruces as your
comprehensive plan
the infill development plan and the
infill ordinance themselves
all have
guidance and information for
contributing positively to the existing
neighborhoods those are all
available for you to use information
information for you to use to make your
decision
the zoning code provides the process to
apply
it gives you the criteria to make your
decision and
that's the actual law anything that's a
plan
is just information to help you and
provide guidance for you to make a
decision
[Music]
all right well thank you very much
so um my question then
is i don't
hear any new evidence or new information
to be able to say that the staff has
made a mistake
is there something here that would
qualify
given what you just said mr weir
madam chair and council members when you
hear these cases
uh you can take into consideration the
staff
staff report the testimony that was made
before you
and then any several of you identified
that you've gone out
to the um to the neighborhood and done
your site tour
those are all considerations that that
you can make to make your decision
whether you support that and agree with
staff or you
feel that there's been enough
information that creates a
a difference in facts and that you would
just need to state that when you take
when you make your vote on whether to
approve or deny this request
okay
any more comments from commissioners
okay then i guess we will go to a vote
can you
do a roll call mr weir yes
i'm sorry for interrupting is there one
last thing i can say
um yes since you're the proposer yes
um just just to point out there i did
follow pnz guidelines for
um obviously notification to the
community and
even when the letters did not get there
on time or according to the guidelines
they did
um the sign was up and i do have the
picture to prove that
um also i do have the text and text
in where i'm i was actively working with
or trying to work with karen and daryl
um
and i forgot to address bob
duffy um the traffic um
so i don't know how long he has been
living there but
um in that time you know
right now there's a petition against me
right
but in the many many years
living there there's only been calling
the cops no petition signed for
you know um bumps
uh road bumps or anything that is
something that i can
as part of the community i can um
help with i may not help with but like i
would be
okay with speed bumps
thank you um i don't think the city does
speed bumps anymore i think that the
emergency vehicles um find that they um
cut down on their response time too much
i think it's unfortunate that speed
bumps and
other traffic slowing devices have put
in
on other streets in this neighborhood
you know
i think if i lived on the street i
probably would petition to get those
taken out
so that the traffic gets spread out more
evenly
so okay um
i think we will go for a vote now
david weir the original motion by the
commission was for approval of the idp
so a vote for yes would be to approve
the fourplex
and a vote for no would uh be to deny
the request so i'll go
to the commission now commissioner
sanchez
yeah so in unfortunately what i can see
is the absence of any new information
other than what
city staff has already provided us i
will vote yes um
based on that recommendation and also
based on its compliance with elevate las
cruces it encourages the use of
alternative housing types
styles and living arrangements in an
established area of the city
commissioner
oops can you hear me yes we can
okay i'm going to vote no i think it's
uh too much building for the property
i don't like the idea of one-car garages
that's really a thing of the past
people own more cars they own these big
trucks
and uh one car garages i know he's
saying
he'd make him use it as a garage but
someone's pickup truck wouldn't even fit
in it
uh it's an r1 uh a zone
they're single family homes and we need
neighborhoods like that we're doing a
lot of we've approved a lot of
developments
of single-family homes within this city
and we also need to protect and take
care of the ones we have
so i'm denying his request thank you
commissioner bennett i vote no
as well uh based on discussion the site
survey
idb the idp doesn't match uh or doesn't
uh meet surrounding neighborhood um
i don't feel comfortable debating from
the current r1a requirements
um this does not meet surrounding
setbacks and density does not either um
if the units were cut in half it was a
duplex and
and it met the setbacks i'd be uh i'd be
inclined to accept this
um but yeah i don't know
commissioner smith
i um you know
mr knoll he he meets you know the
compliance as far as the infield
development overlay
um i know
that you know with the with the elevate
las cruces they're trying to
um you know promote new
development within uh established urban
areas to fill some of these these uh
uh you know replace in these parcels you
know put
these parcels with new homes um
i am voting yes i have my reservations
just based on
uh some of the requests for setback but
um
i feel as far as the plan the elevate
las cruces plan
uh it does meet um the goals and
and and the compliance that that the
plan is trying to achieve
uh commissioner guerrero um
i'm gonna i'm also sorry i'm gonna vote
no um
the main reason uh you know i was
thinking a lot of this like as
getting prepared for the meeting and i
was a little nervous about it just
because of the number of
um complaints from the neighbors um and
i think you know that's something we
definitely need to honor i mean there's
a petition with
uh sorry i forget on top of my head but
like 39 signers and
that are against it um and i drove by
storm by the property drove by the area
this just seems like it just it makes no
sense in that neighborhood and i mean
and mr nola i understand why you're
wanting to do this i you know i have
aging parents as well and
you know my parents were also looking at
you know my dad and i were looking into
investing in properties and stuff like
that
but you know we also got to remember
like you know neighborhoods do have
certain character
and i also understand that the
comprehensive plan
uh you know we we all want more infill
for vacant properties
uh but to me this is an example of like
just because we are able to doesn't mean
we have to
or doesn't mean it's right so so you
know so i apologize
i'm going to vote now commissioner
gordon
um first i have never ever voted against
an infill property
i think that they're very beneficial and
important to the city
but i do believe that they belong where
they should be put
or where they should be put to use i'm
sorry
i have lots of concerns with the
setbacks with the density
i don't believe it's in character with
the neighborhood
um even though it is compliance will
elevate las cruces
i think that in the amount of neighbors
that are against this it was just one or
two people i would say you know all
right let's go ahead and do this but
there are a lot of neighbors who are not
in favor of this
i think that mr nolan should come back
perhaps with another option and try
again i realize he's bought this
property
but unfortunately i think i have to say
no also
madam chair thomas
um i vote yes for reasons i stated
um earlier that it um we need this kind
of infill
we need these kinds of missing middle
options for people we really need to
have neighborhoods who have a variety of
of choices for housing
i did do a site visit i saw other
two-story things around so
i vote yes um the motion
fails four to three so the idp was
denied
thank you okay the next item
is the 3830 east lowman avenue
zone change and i'm going to recuse
myself and
turn the meeting over to
vice chair commissioner gordon
all right thank you commissioner thomas
do we have a motion to accept
um
let's see what's the name of this thing
where it is
i guess it's just a rezoning of uh it's
just a rezoning
okay this case number i guess you have
to put the case number in there summary
of case
two zero z zero
i mean i can't have it to zero as or no
i think it's two zero zero
zero five zero zero zero nine eight do i
hear a motion
uh this is commissioner guerrero uh i uh
promo uh i propose a motion for the
property of 3830 east loman
i was trying to remember if we said we
had to read the whole thing i can
definitely do that
if not i propose a motion for it
is there a second
do we have a second
this is catherine that was seconded by
commissioner smith
all right thank you we have a we have uh
a motion and a second
uh we have staff presentation i believe
catherine you're going to be doing it
uh yes um commissioner gordon i will be
doing that
and again just to reiterate we don't
have to list the case number
uh just state the address and the type
of case that it is
for the record and we will know what
that means
so this property is located at 3830
east london
it is along the along loman avenue
contains two
buildings that right now are being
utilized
for offices and there's also a shell
building on site that is vacant
uh the property is a little more than
one and a half acres
um is surrounded by mix of uses
multi-family
there's some single-family that's not
directly adjacent but is immediately
uh south of it um and commercial
properties
uh loman of course is a principal
arterial roadway
there are several businesses along this
roadway
you know very similar types of uses
commercial in addition to
medical offices restaurants things of
that nature
here is a photo of the site you can see
those two
buildings that have been constructed in
the parking lot
there are several existing conditions
from a previous zoning ordinance that
was zoning ordinance 2660
that was done several years ago
the building heights were limited there
were some requirements for buffers
a requirement for a wall a very small
park or parklet
on the southwest corner a dedication of
some some small segment of indian hollow
road
improving an adjacent portion of indian
hollow road
and then a closure of indian hollow road
so these are all the previous conditions
in addition to that there were some
limits to the types of uses that could
be allowed on the site
there were no temporary uses allowed and
then of course the uses were very very
limited
to carpet and window treatment stores a
clothing store delicatessen furniture
store garden supply grocery
home furnishings plant nursery specialty
foods and specialty stores
as well as all uses under the office
zone that had been there previously
those were actually only conditioned
having to do with site construction and
not actually a limitation
to the office uses
the applicant has expressed concerns
about being able
to um lease those
buildings sufficiently and would like to
rezone the property to a standard
c3 as opposed to a c3 conditional
to allow for an expansion of uses
ultimately the site as you can see was
built out
when that original zone change ordinance
to
six six zero was approved it was vacant
but of course it's been built out and
all the conditions related to the site
development have been fulfilled
um i would like to point out
that one of the conditions has created a
lot of consternation
amongst the neighborhood that one in
particular
was the requirement of indian hollow to
be
closed during the original approval
it should be noted that although the
applicant's request
was just a standard c3 zone with no
conditions
it was not necessarily his intent
to reopen indian hollow road
however after analysis by city
staff it was determined that there may
be some advantages to that and i will
talk about that shortly
um i do want to point out that this
particular property um
is in a regional commercial tight place
type
as according to the future development
map of elevate las cruces
it encourages large retail and
professional service uses
usually in multi-tenant shopping centers
just like this um the scaling character
is to serve the city and the region as a
whole
um and next i'm going to talk about
indian hollow a little bit and and
where that plays into all of this
ultimately as i stated before the intent
of the applicant was simply to
allow for additional land uses of the
site
not necessarily to reopen india and
hollow however during the analysis of
this
staff did look at indian hollow and
felt that the removal of that condition
regarding the closure
would provide an opportunity to the city
in the future
if and only if it were determined that
indian hollow needed to be reopened
this would require an engineering study
to determine
whether the need was there and whether
any improvements were required as part
of that
part of that reopening and ultimately
the removal of this condition does not
indicate
that the road will be reopened
immediately if ever
um i also want to state that
um it's probably i don't
want to tie the opening or or closure of
indian hollow
to land uses associated at the site
nor do i want to penalize the
applicant's um
interests simply because of indian
hollow
and so i just want to reiterate that
when the commission
is looking at this particular project
here's a picture of indian hollow you
can see the structure that's there
presently like i'd stated before indian
hollow has been improved
however there is a gate that does allow
emergency services
as well as the utility trash trucks to
go through
and access the roadway
reviews were sent to all of the relevant
agencies and departments
staff did not identify any issues
associated with the proposal
however as you may be aware with all of
the um correspondence that i sent out
to you um there were several emails
letters and a petition with
over 90 signatures in opposition
specifically to the re-opening of indian
hollow
the petition in particular was written
in such a way that it was
not specific to the zone change or uses
but only to the reopening of indian
hollow
again i'd like to reiterate that even if
that condition is removed
uh that does not mean that indian hollow
will be opened
um a summary of the opposition is listed
here
um in this in the presentation
ultimately again the reopening of indian
hello was the primary issue
in terms of the letters and the
correspondence i received
large concerns over safety
concerns about increase in traffic in in
certain areas of the neighborhood
increase in noise and then an increase
in crime um
additionally there had been some
concerns about the legality and the
fairness of holding
meetings remotely under the current
conditions
we had several complaints from some
neighbors who indicated that they could
not attend a zoo meeting
nor would they be willing to enter into
city hall and be isolated into a room
to participate on city equipment
we also had several requests to actually
postpone the meeting
based on the fact that this was not held
in person and was held via zoom
uh specifically because uh those
individuals felt that the participation
uh wasn't fair um across all
levels of technology or socioeconomics
there were also some concerns about the
visibility of the public notice sign
there were some issues it disappeared we
believe it it may have been stolen or
blown away at some point in time
was reposted promptly
those signs i do want to point out are
meant to
have people notice that they're there
and if they're interested they can call
the city
or they can actually park in the parking
lot and view those they're not meant to
be
necessarily read in detail um
via a driving car one of the other
concerns that
was expressed was the allowance of a
medical marijuana dispensary
there were some concerns that with a
liquor store um adjacent
and next door to this property along
with a medical marijuana dispensary
uh that could attract unsavory
characters
uh i do also have a statement that one
of the neighbors would like to
be read i will leave that up to to you
commissioner uh gordon because she was
unable to attend
the zoom tonight it's a it's a pretty um
short statement and
when we open this to public um
if you would allow me to read that um
please let me know
just remind me
i will i will uh recommendation from
staff is is approval
um based on a number of items basically
essentially the character of that
particular commercial corridor
which is lowman avenue in terms of being
able to expand uh those uses a little
bit more in the c3 zone
um the properties also in a principal
arterial roadway which is
um specified and recommended for that
type of zoning
um the request is also supported by
elevate las cruces
um and uh with that
i will answer any questions you may have
are there any questions from the
commission
anybody having trouble on muting
all right there are no questions you
have a question
commissioner guerrero no i was saying no
questions
oh okay all right it doesn't seem that
there are any questions from the
commission so we'll go to the public
the commissioner just a point of order
excuse me this is catherine again
the applicant is here and i would
encourage you to start with the
applicant and then go to public
discussion
oh i'm sorry yes that's that's true
we'll do that first go ahead
please say your name and let me swing
you in
and dr alhomsey has been allowed to
speak he should
hello can you hear me
just have to you have to let me swing
you in first are you there
yeah i can hear you okay
do you swear or affirm that the st that
the testament that the testimony you're
about to give is the truth and nothing
but the truth under penalty of law
i do all right go ahead thank you
um my wife uh reyna attending with me
mr sherman and
community members uh my name is
bassem homsey i'm a physician internist
and emergency physician
working in uh deming for 25 years
uh we moved from benning to las forces
five years ago
um we put all our saving and the loan
from the bank and this property when we
purchased as almost like 12 years
ago we built it about eight years ago
and we followed we executed all the
orders and the recommendation by
your committee about the buffer uh city
feed buffer and the
landscaping uh garden and
a playground for the kids and shade um
i you know i we feel that we really
get treated unfairly for the for this
because all the
the property around us has less
restriction
uh than us uh we lost a lot of tenants
coming to wanna rent and just because
looking at the restriction
and the time limit and everything that
going on in this property and they
change their minds
[Music]
uh i feel like you know the property
right now but you know become like
almost deserted uh more like homeless
people are coming and we have to go
every other
other day as just collecting the
defecating around and the back of the
property actually smelled very bad
and now you can you can tell that i
think the neighborhood
it's really smell very bad in that area
there
usually i talk to house international
the tennis there and the doctor who
rent from us and we run all the tenants
or the
potential tennis before we
we rent to them or if we want to rent
especially with the previous
previous tenants that they are they want
to go ahead and rent from us
i run it by uh these two tenants because
they are very important i
want to keep the reputation
of this property very high i will not go
low with anybody who
and i don't want to harm the
neighborhood i don't want to you know
make you know
any damage or any bad things going on
the neighborhood
but i don't feel like you know i feel
like really we are losing
our savings on this and it's not the
same as the other
property around us and any help we can
get from the city and from the
neighborhood
we appreciate that
all right thank you are there any
questions from the commission
well i guess no one has any questions
and then in that case
uh let me guess uh those people who do i
know how many people want to speak is
there some way we can
i can't see the list so i don't know
commissioner
uh gordon again this is catherine with
staff i can see the list currently
there's only one hand up
uh jacqueline straley has her hand up
however we might request that any other
person who wants to speak also raises
their hand it looks like mr biermann
has raised his hand um he does represent
a large number of the people in the
neighborhood i do know that
okay and there's four then the first
speaker she doesn't represent other than
herself will allow her the three minutes
and then the gentleman who wants to
speak second we will allow him six
since there are quite a few people who
are
have submitted signatures on a petition
like over 90. so i
can imagine he might be representing a
quite a number of people so
first we'll allow three and then we'll
have six and somebody please do the
timing
yes mr gordon this is uh larry nicholas
community that i will time for you
and i will notify you at three minutes
okay thank you
all right then we'll allow our first
speaker to speak with let me swear you
in please
are you there is are you talking about
oh
i'm sorry can you let mr biermann speak
first please since he
does represent the majority that's fine
okay mr bearman can you hear me
mr bearman yeah i just unmuted
um okay let me show you let me show you
actually actually i was going to
uh follow chris sauder
she's the pre current chairman of the
neighborhood association
that's fine if that's your choice i will
allow her i think we'll have both of you
well i think in that case we'll not
bother five minutes
okay can i swing you in please could you
please state your name for the record
and let me swear you in
my name is christine salter
s-a-u-t-t-e-r
do you swear affirm that the testimony
you are about to give is the truth of
nothing but the truth
under penalty of law yes all right you
can go ahead thank you
um i
i'm going to try not to reiterate what
probably bill's going to talk about
but one of the things that was said was
that
uh the removal of the restrictions
including the indian hollow opening
was in accordance with elevate new
mexico
i mean sorry las cruces and when i
reviewed the departmental review i found
several inconsistencies
that were not conducive
under department traffic engineering
there has been no traffic study
concluded as yet it is imperative that a
traffic study be completed
prior to the commission voting to open
the road this traffic study should
include chimney rock roads
little dam city view horizon view and
foothill
this is necessary so that you have the
complete picture of what it will do to
our neighborhood
in regards to foothills that is the
problem
it was never meant to carry the traffic
he is carrying
um and i have talked to the traffic
department about that
under department city npo i find this
entire section incorrect
opening indian hollow will not serve as
important access points
of the neighborhood and provide
connectivity to the transportation
system
indian hollow if you look on a map
indian hollow is less than a quarter
block
from foothills and loma which has a
traffic light
but is a major intersection then you
come to indian hollow
which has a cross through then less than
a quarter of a block
you have the entry into the buildings
less than a quarter of a block after
that
you have an entry into an excellence
mall
there's no way you're going to avoid
traffic accidents
well i am not only speaking for the
safety of my neighborhood
but it was safe to the
people in las cruces there were many
accidents
since i moved into this neighborhood in
and it was closed in 2012 including a
motorcycle car accident where somebody
died
i think you are opening a bad can of
worms
by trying to open this road um
we have three entry points into our
neighborhood
we have a horizon view off of foothills
city you also foothills
and if you come in through missouri and
hill rise
or sunrise or majestic bridge you can
come down
uh or your circle and enter
into the neighborhood and come out on
foothills to get to loman
if you open indian hollow you allow
all that side traffic to bypass for
hills which is i think the reason you
want to do it
but then you cause congestion
and potential accidents at indian hollow
so i really think you need to consider
that when looking at it
i mean there's not even a potential of
putting a blinking light
in the hall you can't do it
um trying to get through this
uh compliance will elevate las cruces
comprehensive plan
policy ce dash force point
there are already street networks that
provide connectivity
within and between residential areas and
supporting centers of activity
as i said we have access
from our neighborhoods above chuni rock
and below chimney rock i'm not sure that
we need to open any
hollow to cause more problems
this is david where could could i uh
have a point of order and some
clarification
good um there is no
proposal before the plan zoning
commission this night to open
indian hollow that is something that the
plains zoning commission does not even
have the authority to do
and has been stated in the staff report
the city would not even do that without
some of the studies that
are being requested the request for you
tonight is to
increase the allowed uses on this parcel
of land
and then to remove a condition that was
originally placed on him
that he has no control over the gate
is totally within city property it has
been constructed and is currently closed
so um there is no proposal before you to
remove that gate there is no um proposal
before you
to create that connectivity
the the result is to increase the number
of uses
and then to separate a condition that
was placed on him that he has no
um ability to change or modify
at all so just just want to provide that
clarification
okay the restrictions on the property
except for the
the road really doesn't impact our
neighborhood i don't think
um i have heard there are other reasons
why
that property is not being rented but
that's between the owner and the people
um i would say that if there's some
stench behind the building
that uh dirt bikers use it to congregate
and go up into the desert so they may be
peeing back there
i don't know that would be my guess
uh but uh you know
the impact for our neighborhood doesn't
mean hollow
not what he does with that business
this is commissioner gordon um
touching upon this subject of traffic
that you talked about
david i have a question to ask you are
you there
yes here's my question
i i realize what we're what we're
supposed to do this evening and we have
no control over the street opening and
not a lot we really don't want to put
that
we i don't think we're supposed to
determine whether we put a condition on
that
but if the city say for example in the
future does decide that they want to
open that
before they do you're saying you made a
statement that they will do
traffic studies uh i would assume
you really can't do a traffic study
where there's a gate because there's no
traffic there
so you would just have to do traffic in
the surrounding area
so if there's a lot of traffic in the
surrounding area how would you determine
if any of that traffic would be going
down towards this piece of property
i made myself clear yeah commissioner
gordon what they would have to do
as there would be have to be something
going
place at those other access points to
the west
of this area that those areas were
overburdened or they had received a
petition from
other residents in the area and then
the public works department traffic
engineering section
would put those requirements together
hector terrazas from the public works
department is here this evening
and he could give you some background on
what they require
as far as a study and what they would
look for
and under what conditions um that would
be looked at
i think that could be excuse me i think
that would be very helpful to let
to let the people hear what he has to
say first so that you can at least
ingest what he's trying to tell you what
the city is planning on doing if they
have to do it
so let at least let him talk and let him
tell you what is going to be and then
you can comment all right
that's fine
is that okay yes all right go ahead
good evening um my name is second
devices like uh mr weir said
um uh i'm in traffic and under public
works um traffic engineer
um yes so if the like captain is uh
catherine said
uh if the applicant seeks to remove that
gate as part of
the zoning they would have to provide a
traffic uh study now like you mentioned
how do we compare what what traffic
would go through there
and wouldn't go through there more than
likely they would have to
give us what kind of development they're
going to be proposing if it's going to
be a high
intensity high turnaround very high
volume vehicles
that's going to be one of the factors of
course it's gonna create more
uh development if it's more of a
local kind of uh attraction um let's say
something that the neighborhood around
there is gonna
dry there and i'll walk there that might
be one of the impacts and we see okay
a lot more local traffic through there
is going to be going through there
um um if
it's a major generator that you see that
only people going on
not going to be a local kind of
generator
uh of traffic that's something we could
go
uh and look at as well uh but for the
most part if they were to
ask for the gate to be removed which is
it like
ms catherine said it's not really uh
at this point and catherine might
correct me uh
at this point they're they're just
asking for all the requirements to be uh
removed now with that game being there
already uh
they could ask us to uh remove it as
part of their development
and with any other kind of uh and just
like any other development if they're
asking for
any cd infrastructure to be uh removed
they would need to provide us an
accurate traffic injury study which
might mean temporary removal
at their cost of the gate to see if
there's any other
traffic um
additional traffic and the concerns that
the
residents are bringing up is a real
concern uh that may be something that
can be done
as a study and of course closing it back
up just to see what the difference is
but like i said um mrs catherine uh
they're not asking for them to remove it
right now and it wouldn't be
a given that even if this is approved as
it is that
the city would approve the removal of
the gate
all right minnesota go ahead you can you
can re you know you can
go ahead and speak again and i won't
penalize you for that time so take a few
minutes if you need to go ahead and say
you'd like to say yes uh there was
traffic studies done
when the first zoning request went in
and
the traffic study showed that there were
over a thousand
cars a day coming down road runner
circle through chimney rock and out
indian hollow in foothills once the gate
was put in
we went down to about 500 a day
and unfortunately people like to speed
down there
and mr biermann has several pictures of
mailboxes fire hydrants walls that have
been impacted by speeding cars
before and after the
the less traffic went through
people don't want to go through the
lowmen telstra
intersection they look for any way to
get around it and coming down my street
is one way
and you know when i moved in in 2007
i asked my neighbors how come your kids
don't play
on the street on the sidewalk or people
ride bikes and they said
it's too dangerous with the gate up
the kids are playing in the front older
people are walking
and i have to say that our neighborhood
since the gate went in
according to realtors is one of those
sellable neighborhoods
in the city because of the walking
capabilities
it has a lot of different terrain and a
lot of people walk
run and buy through that area
opening that up would be a disaster
all right thank you very much is mr
biermann ready to speak
well first are there any questions from
the commissioners
i hear somebody talking is this are
there any questions
all right if none then we'll speak to mr
berman
mr bearman okay i just unmuted
mister before you start just let me
swear you in i don't think i did that
before
you swear affirm that the testimony you
were about to give is the truth to
nothing but the truth under penalty of
law
and just speak your name for the record
please uh i do
william biermann
thank you okay you seem to put some
stock into whether the city staff has
made any mistakes
and uh i pretty much
actually i presented i sent a six-page
statement to the commissioners by email
and i hope they got a chance to look at
it because it goes into
the accident record
on in our neighborhood
and also the traffic
reduction since the since indian hall
was closed and actually
i have a copy of the city closure study
right in front of me
that shows that um
616 vehicles per day were taken out of
the
entire neighborhood at large
and and um
this resulted in 38 000 fewer
home bypass incidents and that's
one car going past one home 38 000 times
a day so
the city staff has recommended
a blanket unconditional approval
of the applicant zone change
and there were comments that it's not
the planning commission's role
to decide whether to open the street or
not
but one of the conditions that the staff
has recommended
doing away with is the condition that
the street be closed
now the the cities promised us in 2013
that that city would be closed if we
gave up our opposition
to their rezoning and the applicant
complains that
he's got some severe conditions but he
agree
he applied for his rezoning in 2012
and he agreed to all of the conditions
and as a matter of fact i had it
if you look at attachment one of your
zoning map
it shows that this property
broke the office buffer zoning
our neighborhood and the east london
commercial district
there were seven lots along their all
zoned office
and city council did a spot zoning
and granted this applicant is
high-intensity commercial
zoning with conditions so
i believe that the planning commission
should recommend
that the condition for the closure of
indian hollow
be retained and also
there was a mention made of medical
marijuana the recommendation by the city
staff
drops all conditions on uses
except for the high-intensity commercial
as well as the traffic issue so
i think there should be a condition at
least one
about medical marijuana or recreational
marijuana
state legislature is supposed to take
that up in the winter session
and is expected to pass because the
governor and the legislators are for it
so we could end up with a zone there you
could call it the intoxication zone with
the liquor store that's next to the
applicant's property
and then the applicant putting on
putting in a a
recreational marijuana store so
i don't think that the planning
commission should be recommending a
carte blanche
removal of all of the conditions and
one of the uh staff said that just
because the condition is removed doesn't
mean
the city would open that room well
actually
the mayor after the city promised to
close that road
the city engaged in a public relations
campaign to solicit complaints
and they tried to reopen the rug and the
mayor actually announced
that he was going to unilaterally open
the road without
consuls at participation
and we had to go to court to stop it so
if you
remove that condition from the
conditional zone that's established down
there i guarantee that road's going to
be open before you can blink
your eye
and uh i mean i can show you newspaper
clippings where
where the residents were complaining
about the city doing the flip-flop
on the road closure and i
i would also just like to say that i
wish
the city staff would give a little more
credence
to what the residents say and think
and the fact that about a hundred
residents sign a
sign a petition against opening indian
holo
this is nichols uh five minutes have
expired
okay i think i was given six yes go
ahead you could
take another minute or so please finish
so
my my um
my my view is that there should be two
conditions retained on this zoning if
you change the zoning at all
one should be keeping indian hollow
closed and that there
would not be a marijuana store alone
um my my statement
kind of got trashed as i went through
trying to cut it down
um
but but if you don't believe me about
the air and nazi that he was going to
reopen the road i had the times and
dates and he said he was going to charge
25 to 35 000
for the neighbors to fund the cul-de-sac
to close the road
and i don't think the neighborhood has
been treated fairly
through this whole process going all the
way back to the approval of the spot
zoning
and the fact that the city without any
meetings without any official meetings
waged a public relations campaign
somebody wants that road open and it's
against the best interest
of hundreds of people who live in the
neighborhood
and
any questions okay are there any
questions on the commission to mr
bearman
are there any questions
well if there are no questions from the
commissioners then i do have a question
again
i want to make sure uh mr nichols and mr
weir
and catherine that if we cannot
approve this with a condition that the
road stays closed is that correct
anyone yeah uh go ahead david please
um mr chairman you know you can place a
reasonable
conditions on a zoning that you feel
protect the neighborhood
and promote the elevate las cruces
what we're saying is this is an
improvement
the the original condition was that
um indian hollow would be closed through
traffic
the gate was put up for that purpose and
it's been
met it's a it's a piece of public
infrastructure that the city controls
this property owner has no more uh
control on that
well he has not requested that it be
opened up that was something that we
wanted to clean up his property
so that he could have a viable
uh use of it as going forward i believe
he's also looked
at some of the uses so you may go back
to the applicant and ask him about the
particular uses but the the planning and
zoning commission
does not um have anything to do with
with um traffic control and public
improvements or safety measures
um
[Music]
so is there any is there any possible
explanation that you could give me
that would give the uh
the thought of the city opening that
road why would they want to do that
i mean nobody's going to come down that
road just to go to those to those
stores that basically everybody's going
to come off alone
it's just going to create another way
for people like the you know the
residents are saying to cut through and
just
uh create probably a lot of problems
you know are we not allowed to say
that this will that this cannot be
closed that it will be closed
when uh are we not allowed to do that
yes or no
mr chairman this is david weir um
the connection is would be for the
neighborhood to have connectivity to
lowman
um you could put a a condition
on it i i don't know what it what you
gain by that you're you're you're tying
a condition to a piece of property
that he has no control over now it's
been built to city standards it's been
dedicated
it provides access to his lot and the
one to um
the west um
but he's not asking but he's not asking
that day but he's just asking to
to to allow him to change his zoning and
put in he sent a list of
of i don't know so many different type
of things that he would want to have as
a tenant
he's not saying anything about the road
he didn't say he wants it open
the residence the residents saying they
want it closed
no this particular applicant is not
requesting that the gate be open or
nor being removed all he really is
asking
is that uh the use is being cruised for
his property
and the the request to remove that
condition from his zoning was at the
city's bequest
to clean it and up not burden him
mr chairman this is nichols fma
glenn uh i i can provide you with a
couple to answer
a couple of um points of interest i
guess points of information let me say
uh
chairman gordon um i spoke to some some
folks
in the city of traffic and also
the city fire department and the city
police department
and what they told me was uh what what
ideas that were expressed were these as
mr weir just stated
that road was put in part of a design of
the city traffic
network um closing that road
basically pushed traffic to other areas
in the immediate in the immediate
neighborhood
uh there's our neighbors on adjacent
streets that are saying
you know what they've done by closing
what closing that road what that has
done
let's push traffic over to our road
so there may be we would like to see
more even distribution
uh with that road being open that was
one thought that was expressed
another one that you know our roads
and streets that we have uh are
addressed
and emergency vehicles respond to
addresses
in the most quick manner as possible
if they come up and the road they we're
going to go down a road and they find
out that
there's there's a closure there then
they have to reroute themselves
so this was a couple of the reasons why
the proposal was put in
to this uh action tonight
yes the the hollow indian hollow
residents are
[Music]
very uh concerned about that street
being opened
it'll increase traffic it's the same as
their neighbors down the street they're
thinking the same thing that the road
that is open
so i guess there's two points uh there
to consider
but uh that's that's the points that
were mentioned to me we have a city
network of streets
this becomes a part of that network if
it were open
if it were open secondly it does give
an alternate routes for emergency
response vehicles
well let me ask you this uh because
commissioner gordon again
what what recourse will the residents
have
if we approve this tonight and the road
stays as it is
with the city having the option at some
time in the future
based on whatever studies they want to
do and they say okay
this road will be open and now what at
that point what recourse
will the residents have other than again
to go out and get 97 signatures to say
it should be closed
will they have to go to court
mr chairman this is david weir again um
you know everyone has the ability to
file a lawsuit if they feel they're
damaged by an action that includes the
city as an entity
also um
the the i guess the one point that i'd
like
to make is the condition
for the initial rezoning of that
property was that
that road be blocked off and so
there's not through traffic that
condition has been met
um and the property has more or less
been built out there's still some
tenant improvements in there um
i would argue that even with the
condition that the city could remove
that gate
if it was deemed a public safety
necessity but there's really
it's it's a local street there
the opening of the road would only be at
the request
that i would see from the neighborhood
for their own convenience
um the road it does not it's not a
direct
route to tell shore or anything you you
you have to weave through the
neighborhood
um to get that direction it
wouldn't appear to be a time saver um so
there's really no incentive for the city
to open that gate
unless there was a request of the
majority of the neighborhood to do so
um what
the reason we asked that that condition
be request and i said we the city
was to unencumber this property owner
with a city issue
and so that he could put his property
the most productive use
that that he can and and be an asset to
the city and that corridor
uh david i you know i you know i do
agree with you
you know as much as i'd like to think
the other way
it says i'm trying to take the view of
the of the residents and they're disdain
for having this
particular gate open but in one sense
you are correct
for someone to come from telstra to come
out onto loma
to me it just seems so easy just to go
down to the traffic light to make a
right
and have to go through a neighborhood to
get down there if what i'm saying is
correct
but i'm just concerned if what what
recourse do they have if the city does
make this decision that's
all i mean that's something that i
suppose they're going to have to
consider
and since this is not something that
we're considering then we'll have to
move forward
tonight and make our decision thank you
commissioner gordon just to clarify um
any affected party has the right to
appeal a decision
like they if if you were any decision
you make on this
zone change the neighbor could
neighborhood could appeal to city
council
or the property owner could appeal to
city council
um substantively if you leave the
condition that the road closed on the
zoning
it doesn't do anything uh to the
property owner
the gate is already there it's already
a condition and so
there's no substantive change to what's
going on his request
is to increase the number of uses it was
the city's request to take that
condition off his property
so if it remains i i don't think it has
any impact on
dr holmsey
well okay i do know that they have a
second bite at the apple if we do vote
to approve this they can go to city
council and appeal
um and vice versa if we do not allow it
the property owner can do the same can
we make a condition then to satisfy
the apparently the residents about the
particular objectivity
to a marijuana store or retail store
would that be possible to do that with
this particular issue
excuse me mr vice chairman may i make
one more comment
who is this this is william biermann
okay
i would just like to correct three
things that mr nichols said
one was about re-balancing the traffic
in the neighborhood
there are only one only eight houses
affected on city view compared to 78
on chimney rock the fire chief
endorsed the closure of the road
and originally the indian hollow was
supposed to be a cul-de-sac
i gave i read you a quote earlier with
sharon thomas
suggesting the road be put back as a
cul-de-sac so it never really was part
of the road
network so i just don't know why they're
so hell-bent on opening that road
and if they weren't why would they even
uh propose to put taking it off as a
condition
well i don't particularly think that
this commissioner gordon again i don't
think they're particularly hell-bent on
opening
according to mr weir that would be
something that would have to be
determined in the future and they
certainly could not do it unless they
went through the necessary steps such as
a traffic study and
and investigating
what could happen with the traffic
flowing in different directions
so i don't i don't think that's okay to
say that they're helping on opening i
think
there is a possibility yes that they
could do that they couldn't
they could go ahead and decide to open
it but then again
uh i don't know what your rights would
be other than the petition
uh the city not to do it but again as mr
weir said and as i just said also
if we vote to approve this tonight and i
would like to add
a condition of a marijuana retail store
that um
that you would you would have another
bite at the apple go to you'll be able
to go to city council now and
and restate your case and they in turn
may say okay you're right you give them
97 signatures
to them that may be look i agree there's
an awful lot of people who don't want
this and i sympathize with them
i have empathy for them but i don't know
in this case as to whether or not we
really should
be concerned with that particular item
that you're talking about
so we'll just have to see what happens
in the next few minutes
so there's any other commissioners who
have any questions for mr biermann
mr chairman this is david weir again you
had asked a question about
putting condition on the property
eliminating that one use
i think a better approach might be to
ask the property owner if he had any
objective
objection to that and that he's actually
the one that proposes that use
uh not be placed on the property well if
he says that
this commissioner gordon again if he
states that tonight in testimony
is that considered uh
you know etched in the stone
um mr chairman this is david weir again
i am let oh good they're gonna let me
talk
who is this
please state your name
let me finish my comment mr chairman
then you can go to
mrs straley um i would then make
if he if the property owner agreed to um
limit that use i would make it a
condition of your approval
that's what i just said so it was we
could vote we would change
we would just say that as a condition
when we vote
before we vote
correct that is correct mr gordon
okay now now who would like to speak
i've had my hand up for quite a while
i'm not controlling that i'm sorry
lebron
go ahead i would just like to say
you know uh the gentleman has come for
about a
uh a change on his zoning and
everything's about indian hollow and
everybody's saying well they brought 98
signatures
the whole area is dangerous you could
get signatures
a thousand signatures throughout the
city with those speed bumps
and uh people park their trucks the
streets you have to
drive in the middle of them and slow
down
uh children shouldn't be playing in the
streets
you can't even drive by when they're at
their neighborhood
mailboxes where their cars pop parked
the wrong way
i think there's a lot of troubles in
that area
and before a decision is made i'd like
to hear from the
fire departments and the police
department
because someone in their letter
mentioned a drunk driver
turned on indian hollow and and a child
plays basketball out there well it's not
a basketball
court and i've also noticed a lot of
cars parked there it's not
it's also not a parking lot so i'd like
to see
before a decision is made the fire
department
and police department come before us and
tell us what's going on and let's talk
about the zone change
and um they're also complaining about a
marijuana store
and uh people that go there they don't
go to get high
i don't think we pass it for
recreational use
and i have found with studies with
colorado
they can't even the people that use it
to get high don't go to these stores
because they can't afford it it's
cheaper to buy the stuff on the streets
so i'd like those things i really would
like to hear from the police
and the fire department regarding indian
hollow
and let's talk about the rezoning for
bosom awful see me i can't say his name
thank you right yeah are there
representatives in the police and fire
department
in attendance commissioner gordon again
this is catherine we do have mark dubbin
with the fire department uh and
hopefully he can address
emergency response questions there
unfortunately is no member of police
this evening
but we do have uh the fire department
all right well let's hear it let's at
least hear from this commissioner going
lease here from the
fire department mr dubin hi good evening
uh commissioners this is mark with the
las cruces fire department
um you know we've uh
we've been able to to respond with the
with the gate in place
we we do have siren activation
capability i mean
it slows response down a little bit
it's negligible ideally for our response
not having the gate in place would be
the best but
we've been able to work with it since
it's been in place so
i i think as mr weir mentioned that the
uh
the ideal scenario is for the for the
the closure not to be tied to a piece of
property but be
something that the city could could
control and
unburden the the owner of the property
from having that condition on the lot
but as far as
uh emergency response um
we can work with it the way it is right
now with the gate in place
uh this is commissioner gordon i have to
tell you that i am very
familiar with the with the the system
that works
i live in a gated community we have that
on our gates
and if an ambulance the fire or police
have to come in they they sound their
siren and the gate opens and they're in
it's not a problem so i am familiar with
that and i'm glad that that works for
you guys
it does it hasn't been mentioned here
tonight but i know when the gate was put
in
um our department worked with utilities
also because they use it for
for trash collection as well so it's
it's something that we do need for
city infrastructure but um
absolutely would not need it opened at
this time
all right well thank you sure
are there any other ques uh lavon does
that satisfy your uh
questions to the extent of only the fire
department
i have to unmute i'm sorry
yeah i'd satisfy he said it works at
this
time he didn't make it a permanent thing
you know those gates act up and
when someone's life or house is on fire
that few seconds that you stop to
watch that gate open and pull your truck
through
someone could die or your house could be
completely burned down
so it's it's it's a question
it's a question regarding emergencies
you worry about the water tankers going
on the other streets with those
high speed bumps that's slowing down
rescuing someone's life or saving their
house
um they did mention that horrible car
accident
that happened where the guy on the
motorcycle was killed but
he was speeding he was actually speeding
and in the wrong
so it's a confusion it is a confusion
i'm i'm very confused right now as a
commissioner
because i thought we were talking about
zone changing we keep going to indian
hollow
well commissioner muniz that's basically
what these
the residents are here to talk about
they're not really too concerned about
the zone change they're concerned about
that gate but i can understand your
feelings and
and i know how important it is uh we're
very concerned about it here in my
community
what will happen if the thing doesn't
open i guarantee you that truck is going
right through they're not going to turn
around
all right is there any is there anybody
else from the commission who has a
question
thank you mr dubin you're welcome
anybody else important this is uh
commissioner sanchez and um
not so a question but more comment just
on a few things i think in particular
this last
issue that we're talking about with
emergency vehicle access i think one of
the most important things to keep in
mind
is that indian hall road was never
supposed to be a through street in the
first place and so when those initial
planning were done
by public safety departments to figure
out whether we could access those in a
timely manner and so on
that's already been done um so what it
is there's a potential added benefit of
opening in an indian hollow road because
of the way that it was built
but i think it's important you know even
if you look at um
you know homes on i'm seeing on scenic
view drive for example that are right
there
um or even all the way at the other end
on the southern end of indian hall road
those are just as difficult to access as
it would be to access the northern part
of indian hollow road as it is right now
and so all of that planning was done by
public safety departments already
so i think one of the things that we
need to be doing when we consider public
safety concerns on that street there
is we need to consider it according to
the way it was designed in the first
place actually not necessarily what
it avails itself of now because of the
way that it actually was built
um the other thing i would add though um
commissioner gordon you did mention
about um
a curiosity about who would come all the
way through the neighborhoods in order
to bypass
telstra and loman and the answer to that
question is it's all the people who
live in the neighborhoods um that's
actually where that influx of traffic
comes from and i know that very well
because i'm not long after that street
was closed i worked at the bank that's
right there
that comes out on the two sides of
foothills and indian hall road and
so i would come from home in order to
not have to take any major streets i
would come through all that back area
um and in all honesty it would have been
really convenient for me if indian hall
road were open
um it would have saved me about 30
seconds to a minute to get to work
but i understand why for the folks who
live there why this is so important
um the public safety concerns really um
are just so great for them because i've
seen exactly what it does to traffic
there
um and i can imagine what would happen
um
that being said i also i believe that mr
wares made it very clear today that
that's not necessarily the question
before us today is whether or not we're
opening that road
this is a rezoning question and i think
that that's unfortunate because
if i believe that i had a say today on
whether or not we opened indian
um road i would vote that we don't do
that
but that's not the vote that i have in
front of me today the vote that i have
in front of me today is whether or not
we
completely a rezoning request for the
doctor and so
really for me what's most important
about this whole process is just
ensuring that for mr biermann and other
folks in the neighborhood
that they continue to have a
democratized form of recourse to address
this which they will have
with their city council um to to go over
any of these things
um the last thing that i would add is
just i would rather it's not go down the
road of adding
any kind of conditions as far as the
types of businesses that would be
available to the doctor
just because i would very much caution
this commission anyone in this meeting
over the tone when it comes to medical
cannabis patients and even recreational
cannabis users
and i'm very deliberate about the
language that i use here the term
marijuana
actually has a disgusting and racist
historical pedigree to it
it was only ever invented to disparage
um mexican people actually who the false
narrative was painted that these people
were terrorizing communities and so on
and obviously in this meeting and
through comments from mr biermann and
other folks
that stigma remains and so that's
actually something that we really need
to step back from
um i don't believe that there should be
any condition placed on whether it's a
medicinal facility or a recreational
facility
and if we do add that i'm prepared to
actually vote against the zoning change
commissioner sanchez i happen to agree
with what you're saying as far as
our our job here tonight is to to vote
on a zoning change
but i only brought up the fact that
these people are here tonight basically
uh trying to to speak and they're
concerned about
the road and the gate that's all i mean
they have the right to come and speak
it was a part of what they said in
history but
again i happen to agree with you our job
tonight is to vote on the zoning change
and even if even if we vote yes i mean
if they go to city council
they're still not going to be protesting
the gate
only they'll have a time in the future
if like you said when the gate is opened
then they'll have to take some kind of
step whether it is to
go before city council to protest and i
can give you a perfect example of this
and
i live up on sonoma ranch boulevard
there's a gated community here there's a
gated community and it's an intersection
of sedona hills parkway and
sonoma ranch boulevard and the city was
going to put in a traffic light
first of all they put in speed bumps to
try to slow down the traffic and that
didn't work
there was a complaints by the fire
department police that it was
and it was causing problems in in in
responding to to emergencies also was
tearing off the bottoms of their trucks
there was a lot of problems so they
removed it the city removed them but
then he said okay what we're going to
have to do now
is to put in a traffic light and what
happened was that this
the city came up we had a meeting with
the mayor
and the city manager and traffic and the
police department
and that at that intersection and they
all studied it and
and the mirror said you know the perfect
solution to this is to put up
four traffic signs for stop signs i'm
sorry and that worked there's been no
problems we've had a couple of minor
accidents
but prior to that there was there was
many accidents and i believe there was a
death
but now we've not had this problem but
the city is going to still have this
option
to put in the traffic lights because the
stop the stop signs are only temporary
now what's going to happen if the city
makes this decision they're going to put
in
traffic lights or only the whole area
of both the the the um it would be the
east and west side of sonoma ranch
boulevard
would have to go before city council to
protest and that's what we did
when the city wanted to put in these
traffic lights we went and mass
down to city council and that would
prompted them to come up with a solution
that they now have
now these people might have to wind up
doing the same thing
they're going to have to go before city
council the night of the city council
needle and state their case when it was
mattered before the public
other than that i don't know what their
what their what the recourse is going to
be and that's why i ask
they may have to if they're that adamant
and they want to put up enough money to
sue the city
they might have to do that too i'm not
an attorney and i can't
tell them that's what they should do but
you are correct and i think that we have
to just
focus our our job tonight i'm voting on
this
on this zone change i don't i i
mention the fact that he doesn't want to
have a marijuana so if he doesn't want
to
then that's fine with me i don't want to
tell him what he has in here what he
doesn't have to hear
in there he made an investment in that
to rent property to businesses and i
think he should be allowed to do that
commissioner i'm sorry it's just a point
of order
we have several members of the public
who have their hands up
um i just want to remind you that we're
not done with public input
um and i also have a statement
okay in that case how many more people
want to have something to say do you
know
yes sir again this is catherine for the
record um
we have um mr rob
wood jacqueline staley i have a
statement from a miss armina taylor that
i
have been requested to read and it looks
like mr biermann
and chris sotter also have their hands
up momentarily
john limke had his hand but it appears
oh it's back up
so we have several folks that would like
to speak all right
uh let me do this then mr biermann and
miss slaughter
let them wait until the end and i'm
going to respec i'm going to restrict
them sorry
to the amount of time that they will
have to add additional statements
so would you please recognize uh
one of these people we will allow them
three minutes only to speak
and we're going to try to keep them to
those three minutes because
this is just going on and on and i don't
want to have it to be repetitive so if
they have something different to say
we would like to hear it absolutely but
if it's just to repeat what's already
been said
let them just get up and say i agree
with mr so-and-so
so whoever you choose to speak first go
ahead and do it because i can't control
this
yes sir i'm gonna allow uh miss
jacqueline uh staley to talk
okay just when she when she gets on
i'd like to have her speak her name and
john
no um
yes i misspoke it's jacklin straightly
not staley
i'm sorry did you already speak no i let
mr bearman go first
because he's the you know he's the one
that brought this forth
so but i would like to speak please okay
and i i did not
i did not swear you in uh no
okay then let me do that and then you
can talk
and allow you three minutes do you swear
or affirm that the testimony you're
about to give is the truth nothing but
the truth on the penalty of law
yes well go ahead thank you
so i moved in um into my home in
uh 2002 and that's before
we had um you know that's before the
applicant had his business
before uh natural grocers jelly liquor
uh dunkin donuts uh jason's deli
and i could go on and on and on so um
basically um there my first incident
was when somebody ran into my uh wall
okay well okay so we fix it the second
incident was
i was on my grass and somebody came
they um they went so fast i mean people
were going 40 50 miles an hour
they went so fast and and where i live
um the reason indian hollow is so
crucial
is because when you um when you're
heading um
uh south on indian hollow and then you
head
um east um and you come around chimney
rock where i live you're going around a
bend
so these people would go so fast that
they would
they would they would uh speed out of
control
and i had a two-year-old at the time
they drove up on the sidewalk
on my grass right in front of me and my
daughter or my daughter and i
excuse me uh tell me that that's not
terrifying
it was extremely frightening um i'm like
i would have never bought this house
oh my gosh and thank god for that um
that road closure because um
it was unbelievable and then when you
would then
then you go past my house and you're
heading um
you're heading now um uh southbound
um then uh
there's another bend and there was all
kinds of issues there
so this has nothing to do with parked
cars on the street
okay we can all find another place to i
mean hopefully you know
you can park it in the garage or the
driveway or whatnot so nothing to do
with parked cars on the street
nothing to do with basketball this is
talking about somebody
getting onto my sidewalk and literally
driving up on my grass
and almost hit my daughter and i can you
hear me
yes i can okay so um
you know and and uh it
it so many people with now and this is
before all those businesses
this incident happened okay so now
you've got all these businesses there
and yes they do cut through the
neighborhood
we have our neighbors that probably do
but then look at all these people
but mike but the thing about indian
hollow is again
when they make their left they're going
around two bends the one i mean around
two curves one where my house is
and then when they head south there's
another curve i believe mr bearman just
we
recent and even with it being blocked
off he just uh witnessed a head-on
collision i believe up there
so we still have people uh that are
managing to
come through and go fast now imagine
that
three minutes okay yes
let's finish your statement no i was
just gonna say imagine that much more
traffic
and yes we do have a a homeless
situation that's quite serious right now
um you know and but i don't i don't
understand what that has to do with the
the road and um another another
situation is
uh when when that motorcycle
had a man died um he did die
yes uh that he was one of many speeders
in my neighborhood
like i said my daughter and i could have
been killed so you open it and there's a
matter of time before somebody's gonna
die
all right thank you man thank you man
thank you
[Music]
thank you man catherine who is next
yes sir again this is catherine for the
record uh mr rob
wood would be next
mr wood are you there yes i'm here okay
would you please say your name for the
record let me swear you in
please my name's robert wood uh do you
swear affirm that the testimony about to
give is the truth and nothing but the
truth on a penalty of law
yes i do all right glad thank you thank
you very much commissioner for your time
um i think bringing it back to the the
rezoning issue
which i i think the it's the road
closure
was you have to look at it historically
why it was rezoned in the first place
with the conditions was because they
wanted to build the
grocery store there that they built up
by walmart i mean by walgreens instead
so we figured the grocery store was
going to attract a ton more traffic
through our
through the down chimney rock and indian
hollow
to use that so it has to do with the use
of the property so
this is rental property we have no idea
what that property will be used for this
year next year or five
ten years down the road so if you let's
just tie it back to the road being
closed
so let's say a grocery store goes in
there this year it lasts two years and
then something else goes in and then the
city says well there's less traffic so
we can open up the road so then they put
in something else
that's of high use and then we have to
go back and get the city to close the
road again i mean
it's just it just doesn't work just
leave the road closed
but that's ties right into what type of
businesses you allow on that property so
i say if he wants to have any business
the list he wants to have
then just leave the road closed so we
don't have this issue down the road
that's all all right thank you
katherine who's next please
yes sir uh that would be a mr john limke
and then after him i have a the written
statement to read out loud
okay after he's done i'll come back to
you mr olivia are you there
yes hello my name is angelica lemke and
i'm uh the spouse of john nemeche
i am a resident excuse me excuse me
before you start
would you please repeat your name for
the record let me swear you in please
my name's angelica lemke the spouse of
john lemke
all right do you swear and affirm that
the testimony you're about to give is
the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law
yes mr gordon go ahead thank you
thank you i'm a resident of 3410 chimney
rock road
we built our house in 1999 prior to
any of the businesses that have come up
on on lumen
and i had children back in 1999 that
unfortunately were not ever able to
enjoy the front of their house because
of how
the traffic was just outrageous down our
street
with the closure i have seen a diminish
of traffic
and yes it's a lot more accessible for
us to be able to go out and walk
and enjoy our front our front our front
yard
my question is is if you uh guarantee
this rezone can't you just put something
there to guarantee us as property owners
of indian hollow
the the right to say that this road will
never be open
uh i would want to hear that because if
the if the answer is no
i will probably tell you for sure that
i'd be one of the first people to
probably put a for sale sign on my home
and have to look somewhere else where
there is safety in our neighborhood
i mean if you i i invite any of you
to come into chimney rock and see when
if the
if the road does open come and see and
sit in front of my house
and see how fast these cars because if
you know the
the the structure of chimney rock it is
kind of an incline
so cars come come from uh road runner
circle down chimney rock flying
and then there's that turn there that
they don't realize if they're never
familiar with the neighborhood
where they can actually inside and cause
great damage to one of the houses
where the bends are so my my take on it
is
as as a mother with three young children
my kids were never able to enjoy the
loan because of the indian open
once it was closed in 2012 after 11
years i was
i thank the lord and i said thank you
jesus because now
i mean and you might say why don't
people interested they're interested
because it is a shortcut
who wants to go down low men when when
it takes hours in traffic
and it's foothills so people do cut
through our neighborhood
to get to the other side or to go
through uh hill rice school or to go
through although that
that other community so for me i would
just ask that if you do re-zone
maybe guarantee us uh indian household
residents
some kind of respect and say let's put a
clause in there that that we will rezone
it
provided that indian hollow never gets
reopened
that that's just the way i feel you know
and i
i just i feel like my kids never enjoyed
their front yard but
maybe other kids that move into the
neighborhood can enjoy their front line
and
we have kids now that are riding their
skateboards and
and now you can put a basketball hoop
where are they supposed to go there's
really not a lot of parks around our
area our vicinity
i have to tell you i have to tell you i
have been through the neighborhood i
have done a site visit i know exactly
uh the area and the traffic and the
roads that you're talking about
but again i think that we're not talking
about something that i believe that we
can do
i think that we have to talk strictly
about the zoning i guess we've been told
and i don't know whether you've been
listening that we can't do that
so i would believe me i listen i have
you know
it's it's uh 90 some odd signatures or
whatever it is and that's a lot of
signatures a lot of people feel like you
do
but unfortunately uh well let's see what
my fellow commissioners have to say well
you have
cats and you have a statement you'd like
to read
yes commissioner gordon and uh the rest
of the members of planning and zoning
i received an email from a miss armina
and mr
herb taylor they were unable to attend
the zoo meeting and the request was that
i read this to you so i'm just going to
start from the beginning and i'll read
it just says this email is being sent to
you because i'm unable to participate in
your zoom meeting
therefore i'm asking that you read our
response regarding our opposition to the
zone change at 3830 east loman avenue
this hearing should not be convened
since many of those who are being
impacted
by a possible zone change are not able
fully to participate by zoom
in this hearing and because of the
shelter at home dictate from the
governor
the following are some reasons we
believe the change should be denied
every property along loman on each side
of the subject's property except one
have a c3c
designation the property has no
conditions that has no conditions
appears to be club fitness
we purchased our property in february of
1997 when indian hollow ended
where the gate is now located in fact
the original city plan called for indian
hollow to be a cul-de-sac
located where the gate has been
installed the sombra largo condominium
owners are the most impacted by a zone
change
a change in the city code seems to
negate the health safety and well-being
of neighborhood residents and makes no
businesses a top
and to make businesses a top priority
um regards armenia and herb taylor
all right thank you catherine you see
any more hands raised at the moment
uh commissioner gordon members of the
commission it looks like
all the hands are down at this point
all right is there any comments or
questions from the commission
all right i guess there are um david
you're not the commissioner to go ahead
mr chairman if you're ready for me to
call the role for a decision on this
zone change request i'll do so
i guess we are go ahead okay
commissioner sanchez
so because this is not a vote on whether
to reopen that street or not
um and it is simply a zoning change i
vote yes
based on staff recommendation and it
meets the purpose and intent of the 2001
zoning code
commissioner munice
i vote yes for the zone change
on recommend on recommendations from the
staff
commissioner bennett i vote yes i'm
gonna echo
uh abraham's same sentiments um this
isn't
to do with um the road itself
um it's the zoning change um so i'm i'm
voting yes based on staff
recommendations site survey
as well commissioner smith
i vote yes um because it is consistent
with the purpose
and the intent of the of the ordinance
of the zoning ordinance
um commissioner guerrero
uh i vote yes uh based on
recommendations from staff
and as well as the uh comprehensive plan
i will say did use i did use a little in
that area a few years ago
so i understand the concerns of all of
these neighbors um
but um i'm voting yes kind of the same
way as a lot of my
or pretty much the rest of the
commissioners uh mostly because this
boat
is really not about opening the gate
that's i believe it's a separate issue
but
i appreciate all of your outreach and
all of your comments tonight
commissioner gordon all right
based on my site visit our discussion
this evening
the amount of
issues that have been brought forward
and that this is an item that we were
just
basically voting on a zoning change it
has nothing to do with the road
but i'd like to make a comment before i
make my vote i do respect the fact that
there were so many signatures submitted
i wish it was something that we could do
right now but apparently we can't
i hope that in the future perhaps maybe
the city will never have to open this
road
we'll have to wait and see what's going
to be with that i can't tell you about
the future
so in that case i vote yes and therefore
the
the the item passes six to zero and
therefore i turn the meeting back to
uh commissioner thomas chairman
thank you thanks for doing that part of
the meeting commissioner
gordon okay we're now on to uh
commissioned commentary that
anybody on the commission have any
comments to make at this point
well i have my usual question this is
commissioner gordon
mr nichols i'm going to ask you my
question again i know you told me at the
last meeting
two months ago that an rfp i think when
i spoke to you personally
you said an rfp had gone out and someone
was chosen
and they were issuing contracts do you
know whether the contracts have been
signed
and we can look forward perhaps maybe in
the next two months or so
that we can begin work on a new zoning
laws
commissioner gordon and members of the
commission larry nichols
community development my statement to
you
is is still valid uh you know we are
moving forward with the the
zoning updates we know that's a high
priority for us
has the pandemic and some of those uh
items surrounding that um slowed
progress slightly
uh i'll have to stay candidly yes it has
but um i i i guess maybe i need to ask
uh
dave where if he's still on here um
because he's been working with that
as well um but i believe what i've said
to you is
is the correct status unless dave has
some
uh dad dave do you have anything else
there
uh planning design commission and uh mr
nichols
i think i'm along the same lines as you
i might be able to give a little
additional detail uh the the contract i
believe is under review by uh
city and then it will as soon as that
has um
come to terms with the consulting firm
and our
form it will be placed on a city council
agenda for
adoption and the project can be kicked
off so i would anticipate probably
sometime in january
um that would take place
all right well thank you congratulations
mr morgan that i guess uh what you
stated there that we're still on
schedule
uh the fact that the contract is being
reviewed we're a little further along
than that
okay thank you for that update um any
other commission
i just actually really wanted to thank
the staff because as i look at the
time right now it's 10 08 p.m um we've
been here since six o'clock
and you know this board even though most
of us have like a job or we have
something else going on
we do it on a volunteer basis um but
gosh i mean if i was working and
somebody asked me to stay on a zoom call
until 10
oh 1009 now um i don't know if i'd be
super happy about it so
i just want to thank you guys so much
for your hard work and just positive
vibes
and yeah just you know keep it on thank
you so much
this is commissioner gordon again if i
can i want to wish everybody on the
commission
and staff and everybody who's worked so
hard
to have a happy thanksgiving
excuse me and hopefully that we can see
some right at the end of this tunnel
maybe with the vaccine
we can perhaps look sometime in the
future to get back to being chambers and
we don't have to put up with this
crazy uh zoom anyway have a good holiday
thank you look at that your garden
i'd like to oh go ahead i'm sorry
i'd like to also repeat what harvey said
i wish
all of you a thanksgiving happy
thanksgiving
and we have a lot to be thankful for
we're so far we're surviving
this uh virus that's going around
and i send my prayers to all of your
families and my families that
we all stay safe and
uh don't forget to wear your mask
when you go out so
happy thanksgiving thank you
i think we all want to share in that
idea
enjoy yourself but don't don't take any
risks
okay and uh staff announcements are
there any staff announcements
or did we cover that come here sorry
this is larry nichols community
development uh very briefly
um it was mentioned earlier in this
meeting about
the staff being enabled to process
requests for zoning changes variances
all the other work that we do
that involves the planning and zoning
commission
i just want to assure the planning and
zoning commission that
the community development department was
declared an essential operation
during the pandemic and for the last 10
months
we have been doing that work not only
with the planning work but with the
the building and the coved
funding uh under community improvement
um so and you're absolutely right uh
commissioner
we do put in a lot of hours uh mr ware
myself we started at seven o'clock this
morning
but we're happy to do that
and we want to thank the commission for
the time they spent this evening
and also i want to
wish all of you a very pleasant and
blessed thanksgiving holiday
before we close are we going to have a
meeting in december do we have any items
do you know
i don't know that are any that have been
prepared catherine do you have that
uh members of the commission
commissioner gordon
uh yes we have one item uh that i am
aware of
uh that agenda will have to go out next
week to be posted in the sun
news uh it's an infill development
proposal
okay thank you i just want to make sure
that we'll sell my calendar
not that i'm going anywheres but
right you shouldn't be traveling harvey
all right not that any of us are going
anywhere anytime
okay i will entertain enough
of motion to adjourn i
second that let's go to bed did anybody
move if somebody has to move first
promotion oh okay well i seconded it
okay all right so without
any further comment we're adjourned time
is
uh 10 14.
you all have a good night
you