thank you
foreign
[Music]
everybody today is Monday October 24
2022 it's approximately 1 p.m for those
of you joining in we're not having a
city council work session we only had we
counseled that for a lack of agenda
items it was very small but we are
having our tit board our tax increment
development District board and if you're
just tuning in and you wonder why
commissioner Shannon Reynolds is here is
because he's an ex-official member of
the of the tit board he didn't jump ship
from County to City so okay before we
begin please join me in the Pledge of
Allegiance
against to the flag of the United States
of America and to the Republic for which
it stands one nation under God
indivisible with liberty and justice for
it
thank you
all right so we have
first item is approval of the minutes
from the April 25th 2022 did board
somebody need a motion in a second
please move to approve seconded coin
motion made by board member abeta and
second by board member Koran
Christine
this is on the motion to approve the Ted
board minutes from April 25th 2022 board
member abeda yes board member Graham yes
board member Ben Como yes
board member Koran yes board member
Flores
yes board member Gandara yes and chair
yes okay so we have three discussion
items and the first one's going to be
the financial update and Mr Chris Faber
from Economic Development will be
discussing
good afternoon everyone Chris Faber for
the record Economic Development I will
be doing all of the updates today for
the tid but there is City staff here if
you have questions that I'm not able to
answer so we'll go ahead and Jump Right
In
do a quick tid Financial overview this
will be the first tid meeting we've had
of this fiscal year remember the one in
July was canceled so this will be the
the first one since I believe April
an update on a couple of the current tid
projects and then the bulk of the
presentation will be talking about the
plaza shade committee recommendations
for our shade on the Plaza De Las Cruces
so three months in uh to the tid for
this year and you can see the monthly
totals are are going pretty strong we
started to see this trend in late uh I
guess late 2020 and it's continued
through the last fiscal year on into
this one
and you can see the jump of the tid
Revenue collections from FY 21 into fy22
we've seen a pretty substantial increase
in tid and and I believe there's a
variety of reasons for that I've spoken
with finance and and the economists in
the economic development department and
they attributed into changes in the
gross receipts tax things related to
inflation people's kind of spending more
money
um
as a result of of more savings available
so a variety of different things have
really impacted the tid in a positive
way and you can see that trend is
continuing into this fiscal year which
is good for projects we want to use tid
money for
these uh oh I already see a mistake
those totals are um
unedited totals as of September so my
apologies I didn't update that but the
totals the end totals are correct these
are the three different totals for the
various tit accounts I did want to note
that while the total is 10.8 million
there will be a budget adjustment coming
up in the next few months to remove
about 2 million of that dollars that the
tit has to pay back to the general fund
for the hold harmless so while it says
10.8 it's closer to 8.8
oh
any questions on the financials at this
time
it looks it looks good so move on to a
couple of the current projects going on
so parking lot 7. this is a project that
has been going on for quite some time
just to recap the first half of the
project resurfacing was done in fy20
and then they had to put a hold on that
until the restroom facility arrived
there were some supply chain and covid
delays related to that but it did come
in this summer
um if you remember back we doubled the
capacity of that facility originally
what we had specced out was something
about half the size and so we we doubled
the capacity which caused the need to
change a lot of the utility design in
that area so we had a little bit of a
delay while we go ahead and reconfigure
that but in my conversations with Public
Works last week they're thinking two to
three months to get this whole project
done once the utility work is done then
they can complete the resurfacing of the
second half of the parking lot so
foreign
and then one of the projects that I put
on the budget for this year was to
complete the shade and the kaisitas if
you notice when you walk down Main
Street most of the kaisitas only have
shade on one side the shade poles I mean
the the anchors
so we budgeted for shade anchor poles on
the other side and then to actually put
the shade canopies up so Public Works is
in the design phase of that particular
project
and the locations of those are the ones
on either side of Maine down by White's
Music Box and Mateos Court Street
by co-as and insta copy and then down by
the spa downtown those are the locations
of the gyasita so that project should be
moving forward
any questions on those projects Mr chair
yes board member I have questions about
I don't you tell me when this might be
more appropriate I have a couple of
project suggestions
um I don't know if I can make them now
is that probably the best before you get
into the last item and then everyone can
leave
um
given that there is this funding so the
8.8 that you're estimating is left that
doesn't include the cost for the the
shade I imagine
Mr chair board member Ben Como uh yeah
there's yeah it would the shade would
come out of that correct yeah so given
that there still be you know the whole
thing that the cost you show us is
significantly less I saw that in the
paperwork
um
I thought of two things one given that
there has been an increase in some
property damage to the businesses
downtown at least I've heard that from a
couple businesses Chris I'm sure you
have to I'm wondering if I saw that
other cities had provided for areas that
were experiencing such things private
security and I don't know if the tid it
given that there's a tit I don't know of
anti-donation how anti-donation
plays within a tit but I am curious
about
using some of those funds for some sort
of private security for the downtown
area for the tit area
I'm curious Chris if you have any
thoughts about that or if you've thought
about that already this Mr chair board
member Ben come on I I know there's
certain things you can do with the tid
money and it's a real fine line between
using it for for you know private
business that type of thing it's a
little different in downtown with the
MRA but there's also other issues with
the tid funds as well I'd probably have
to look into that a little bit more to
see if if it's more of a general
security for Main Street versus yes
security for private business that would
probably be yeah yeah I mean generally
security for right
um for
the downtown area right so I would like
to know that Chris I would love if you
could look into that and if you could
come back to us with uh opportunities
for that
um while you know we work on more longer
term root causes kinds of things
um and then my other
uh piece that I recently thought about
so a couple weeks ago at a regular city
council meeting I mentioned
um needing more Outreach funding for to
do Outreach for on housed people and it
was brought to my attention that that
funding for Community of Hope ran out
that we are no longer providing funding
for their community outreach person even
though they're expensing that somehow
out of their budget but I think the city
was doing that Mr peely and
um
I wonder if the tid could cost share
with uh housing
the housing and Neighborhood Services
Department given that I imagine a lot of
the Outreach would happen in the tid
area if the tid could cost share
the cost of a community outreach person
with Natalie Green's Department
the chair my board member Ben Como again
that's something I need to look into and
I will and I'll get back to you guys
with an answer on that shirt yeah that
would be great I mean I think given that
there are funds here given that the tit
is a big area of focus I think for our
Outreach for our own house I think that
would be
um something we could
look at
um thank you Chris those are all my
questions
yes yes
Mr chair and board member Ben Cuomo
so from my understanding I'm still
trying to wrap my mind around all the
tools that are
used here versus where it came from for
economic development but from my
understanding
I believe tids are for public
infrastructure and so I'm not sure but
we'll we'll look into that I'm not sure
if it's uh if it can be used for
anything aside from that but
we'll come back with a direct answer
thanks efo so Chris are you aware or if
you're aware of any monies that that the
city uses their general fund to help
with the Ted or is it strictly all 100
tit
Mr chair so so out of the general fund
the city does fund the renovate Main
Street program which is
allowable in the tid because of the MRA
and some of the anti-donation but that
money
because the money has to be used for
public infrastructure like city manager
said we can't use the tid funds for the
renovate Main Street so that does come
out of the general fund but it is it is
specific to businesses within the tid
correct the reason why I was asking that
question
along the lines what board member Ben
coma was asking is if there was money is
that the city was using out of the
general fund that that instead of being
used could be used from the tid then
that savings and the general fund could
be used for private security
but I don't know if if there are any
other items that might be fit that that
classification yeah Mr chair I'm not
aware of any right now that we're so yes
but we can look and see maybe there's
something that we're yeah thank you
Vice chair um
chairman I have to think about that
thanks Chris for the presentation I I
know that we've had a
Security in the downtown Main Street
area where we've had
um you know that art installation which
I thought was very helpful just wasn't
sure what pot of money it came from and
I don't recall it coming from the tid
and maybe it was out of I think it's a
great idea I think it'll help Main
Street
specifically as we continue to do the
you know the numerous events that we do
to bring the public to the downtown
something that we're all committed to
doing
but at one point in time we had
advocated for
um cameras
not just the standing one that I don't
believe has remained there on the plaza
in front of the rad but I know that when
we do deploy that particular camera it
makes a huge difference right it really
decreases mitigates the crime and sort
of the things that folks are are
complaining about so I know at one point
we had had from Chief
and I don't see him here but a a I
thought there was a
maybe an analysis done and an idea that
we would be looking at cameras down the
line is more specifically in the tit
District so can you get an update for
for us around that particular idea I
know that was something that was
um
discussed and looked at and then I think
an analysis was complete and brought to
council and it could have been maybe
during the capital outlay programming if
I remember correctly
and I'm looking at Leanne is Leanne here
I thought I saw her no you know she did
come in okay
I think all those things would would
really make a difference for the Main
Street area
Mr chair Madam Vice chair yeah I'll take
a look at that and see for sure I do
recall something when I kind of first
jumped into the tit stuff a couple years
ago but I'll follow up and see if there
was some sort of a feasibility study or
something conducted
thank you
okay
all right so next one is
the oh that's the current project so
we're going to the plaza shade Mr chair
correct yeah there's no more questions
we'll jump into the plaza shade
recommendations
so as you know uh I guess it was
probably fall of 2020 there were some
ideas presented for more permanent shade
downtown I know uh the council at that
time had reviewed and sort of wasn't too
excited about any of the options
um so this past spring I convened a
committee of downtown stakeholders a few
of which are in the audience Greg Smith
from the Arts Council Karen Bradshaw
from the farmers market Russ Smith who's
an event organizer
Robert Cruz from dlcp Richard Haas who's
part of dlcp and also is a main street
business owner Holly pasteen who's an
event organizer and then Louis Gammon
who was also an event organizer so I
tried to grab a group of stakeholders
that were familiar with downtown and had
some familiarity with running larger
events on the Plaza uh we reviewed some
of the previous designs that were put
forward and rejected by Council and
tried to determine if there were any
things that weren't considered and
pretty much there was only one option
that wasn't considered and so we'll get
into that
um here in a minute uh and then we also
met with the Forester to talk about
options related to the trees on the
Plaza
some of the previous uh options that
came up were ranging in price from about
six hundred thousand dollars to about a
million those were pre-covered now those
current prices are probably anywhere
from 800 000 to 1.3 million so
substantially increased over the years
but a very expensive project nonetheless
and those were basically for permanent
shade structures that would be on both
sides or across the top of the Plaza
some of the issues and challenges to be
addressed was was it was really
determined that we were looking for
shade during the hottest months which is
basically you know June through August
and didn't want to impact the conditions
during the cooler months which sounds
kind of silly but if you've ever been in
the shade in January it it is kind of
cold so we didn't want to create any
situations where now we would have you
know real cold areas on the Plaza and
also looking for something to keep the
costs a little bit more reasonable
so the first option that the committee
considered was to replace the existing
trees with mature shade trees on the
Plaza
so the idea was that you know they would
obviously provide shade now because
they'd be larger and that you know what
we would need to do is over you know
over time that they would obviously grow
and to do that we would need to increase
the tree Wells to about 10 to 12 feet
wide the length of the plaza basically
where the trees are now
there would need to be some
modifications to the irrigation and
electrical systems and then in addition
to the trees probably fill in with some
bushes and and some low fencing just to
keep people and animals out
there's also a considerable issue with
the the how compact the soil is there
right now which is part of the reason
why those trees aren't thriving very
well so doing this would address some of
those soil options and ensure that the
trees would have a better chance of
success
cost would be about 200 to 400 000 just
depending on the costs of the trees
this is a very fancy drawing of uh what
the shade areas would look like but
basically the the Shaded in areas are
where the trees are now we would take
that area expand it a little bit and run
the the tree Wells along the length of
that same section on both sides
when I talked with the city's arborist
about some of the different options he
gave me a few different species to look
at but also he said it's very important
that the trees are of different species
and different families so that if
something was to impact one of them it
wouldn't it wouldn't ruin all of them so
these were just a few recommendations
that he he came up with as different
varietals that we could we could put out
there and as you can see they all get
pretty substantial in size and and could
provide you know great shade out there
on the Plaza
so the second option that the committee
considered was to just do a vertical
stand-alone shade structure on the west
side and we thought well that you know
most of the sun is in the afternoon
putting something on that side would
help eliminate some of the the issues in
the later part of the day there's a
design on the next shade but on the next
slide but just some of the points there
about 20 feet from the ground to the top
it would obviously provide shade during
the hottest times of the day there would
be removable shade panels at the top
that could come down in the winter
months
this would not address the current soil
issues that are impacting the trees
there and this design was intended to
leave the trees as are so if if this was
the option the board decided to go with
just understand that you'd probably
still have to do some issues to address
the current soil concerns on the Plaza
now
and this is probably about a half a
million dollars for this project
and you can see this is just kind of a
rough sketch of what what this would
potentially look like just kind of
running the length of the West Side
basically where the trees are now
so the committee looked at both options
and their recommendation was to move
forward with with the trees they thought
it was the was the best way to go it
would you know provide the least amount
of impact for events on the Plaza would
provide shade during the the months and
Times of year that needed the most
um
and you know aesthetically it would
would certainly look a lot more
beautiful down there with with large
shade trees it doesn't rule out doing
something down the road if if there was
a need for it but you know it sort of
addresses a current concern we have plus
could be could be a good option for
shade long term
so if that was the direction the board
wanted to go in my mind the committee's
recommendation would be to budget for it
from the tid for next fiscal year
do construction in early part of 2024
which would mean we'd go through the
holiday season so this wouldn't impact
the holidays next year it's best to
plant trees and do that kind of work
when they're dormant so that's the time
of year you want to do it anyway so then
we could have the trees in place in by
spring summer 2024 so
questions
I must say that I don't think I could
support replanting the trees I mean that
um
I think one we was not guaranteed that
trees are going to live and two I don't
think the shade is going to be what is
what is needed I think it's just a
matter of us figuring out
some type of shade structure and be able
to remove it and put it back on when we
need it but that's just my opinion
Council photos
thank you thank you Mr chair and thank
you Mr favor uh
yes favor correct favor okay the English
pronunciation
um thank you Chris
um so
as far as the plaza shade if I recall
the one that I think
um counselors like like the majority was
over a million dollars when we had the
uh you know the meetings upstairs and
all that and the public I think uh it
was the I think the most expensive one
or it doesn't matter but it was over a
million dollars
um so I I like the idea of having trees
out there but um what's going to happen
to the trees that we already have
they're sycamores have they grown a lot
since they've been planted
Mr chair board member Flores I don't
know that they've grown a lot and I
imagine that we could probably relocate
those to some place where they you know
have a better chance of growing as I had
mentioned before the the soil conditions
there are really really challenging for
the trees and they've we've already lost
several trees on the Plaza over the
years so that'll continue to be an issue
if not addressed independent of which
direction you can decide to go with the
shade structure but I would imagine if
you've moved forward with this we could
find a way to transplant those trees
very
okay well in some ways it's good that
they haven't grown a lot because
sycamores tend to be huge I mean unless
it's a different species I in California
those sycamores are I have one in my
house at my house around and kids love
to try to put their arms around it takes
like about four kids to put their arm
around that fence yeah and so it would
break and it it you know it breaks sewer
lines it you know costs twenty thousand
dollars to replace my sewer line it
cracks cement streets so I don't know of
the same kind so I'm definitely I I and
I do like the idea of trees more so than
um yeah because yeah because the options
we had for a shade structure were they I
mean if they were over a million at a
few years ago before covid they're
probably you know exponentially higher
so that that's my preference and um and
I and I and I know I think I spoke was
it our what's his name ours Tree
Specialist as a brinsky or something Mr
chair board member Flores yeah Jimmy
zabrinski yeah he's not available today
I invited him to the meeting but he's
not available so oh anyway it'd be good
to hear from him in so far as what the
um
uh projected growth of the current trees
are too but um but if if the new trees
are going to replace those sycamores and
as you said would those would go
somewhere else to grow somewhere else
I'm definitely for that option thank you
thank you Mr Mayor
thank you mayor thanks Chris for the
presentation can you
change it back to the members names of
the members of the committee oh members
thought you said numbers
um
did staff participate in the
this conversation aside from you
Mr chair Madam Vice chair
um I was involved and we talked with the
cities arborist on the tree design and
I've I've been talking off and on with
the public works staff about this
project since I you know became involved
so yeah I did talk with sridevi the the
architect and Tony Trevino as well so
okay okay
um I'm wondering if a conversation had
been had with Lisa LaRock from the
sustainability office I know she's done
this wonderful analysis of the
temperatures that right that during the
various times of the year and how hot
and if I remember correctly one of her
presentations was specifically on you
know the temperatures not only on the
Nevada cooling Corridor but also in
different areas I thought within the
city and some of the hotter areas had
been in the plaza because of all that
asphalt so I if we haven't had a
conversation with her I think one should
be had and maybe pulling that data I
think it's important I mean I'm for
um I I really wanted the other structure
with the and having it be an art
installation I knew it was very pricey
um and at the time when we were
discussing this it had been
you know two or three iterations and
we'd had at least two different councils
at this point and I know at the time of
discussion we were really looking at
ways right that we could reduce the
costs and so trees seemed like a a
better a better idea at the time
but I'm concerned about the trees and
the size and what that cost and I would
assume that you've looked at it and
you've you've shown sort of the varied
um degrees or different types of trees
that we should be purchasing but I I
want us to get like the largest trees
that we can to get basically you know
the shade that we're we're all expecting
um but I really also like the idea of
that those other
um
shade structures that you spoke of I
think I think people would really
appreciate that
um as well so I mean
I think
I am for the trees if you can get the
largest
um now or not now but as we're moving
through this process then I think it'll
it'll benefit all of us almost
immediately
from my from my perspective and it will
also reduce the temperatures drastically
in that area and I think that's
something that we want to see
um and there and hopefully
you know we can get Mayor on board
um in terms of agreeing that this is the
best option at this point because who
doesn't you know who would not want to
have
um
trees a and what it does to right
aesthetically to that area but also from
the from the reducing our carbon
footprint this is something right up our
alley at this point so thanks Chris
Mr chairman Vice chair if I may say I
did have a couple conversations with
Lisa regarding this early on there was
discussions about I think the option
that Council liked the most of the
original ones was called the decorative
metal and it was sort of four areas on
the Plaza when I talked with Lisa one of
the things she had been looking at at
that time was this type of paint that
reduces we thought we would be able to
use it on the Plaza but it only works on
asphalt and the material on the Plaza
wouldn't have worked for this so that
really wasn't going to work but one of
the concerns too was going with some of
those metal options now you're creating
what they call like a like a heat oven
where the metal heats up and it actually
increases the temperature so you kind of
do the opposite of what you're trying to
do so
thank you Chris thank you for that
thanks mayor
board member thanks Mr chair thanks
Chris
um
the committee was there I guess I'm also
hoping to understand the enthusiasm
behind the recommendation were they
excited about the tree recommendation I
don't yes because I don't want to move
forward if people were like I guess
right it's the best option I think it's
I think natural shade is incredible I I
love this idea
um I mean I definitely was in the
minority with the last group of pre
options we were given
um but I I love this idea so could we
hear from some of the committee members
Mr chair
absolutely
the chair and then also remember Ben
coma I think we've got Russ Smith and um
Robert Cruz is here as well I don't know
if there's others but I'm more than
happy to turn the microphone over to
them mayor sorry Susan is here Google
sure whoever wishes to speak
did you just state your name please
five minutes if you don't mind my name
Russ Smith thank you mayor council it
was fun being part of the committee with
the thought process
Chris you did a great job of bringing
thinkers and users into
the discussion
it wasn't a unanimous committee for
trees it was a
it was trees in favor in the committee
but I was a person who liked a structure
simply because I thought it would be
predictable
structure you build it you use it you
build it you use it seasonal on on off
you can rely on what that structure is
going to do each year with the tree do
you have pestilence
each year with a treat you have a frost
each year with a tree well even gaining
the tree there's a question about
inventory availability you want the
longest tallest
but it might not be available
there's a lot of risk to the choices
that you're going to make and then soil
things of that sort so treats are a
wonderful
utility for it but I thought better to
have a structure that mitigated Sun
morning afternoon especially when the
plaza is used in the evening
predominantly so my thought was
predictable structure something on the
side something that didn't impose in the
center with pillars
so that was our option to those are my
thoughts
hi my name is Robert Cruz I'm the board
chair for the debt high on Lost Cruces
partnership and as Chris invited me to
be a part of this committee we were
definitely looking at the structural
components and and what it would take to
do that as Russ has said you know any
kind of structure is somewhat permanent
but will wear over time as you know with
the shade structures if they're the
um the the canvas type or or they're
going to wear out so when we stood on
the Plaza both at numerous times
throughout the year in the winter it was
really cold in the shade so of course
the trees that are recommended will lose
their leaves
the shade structure
if that was proposed that goes up on the
pergolas it would have to come down
during the winter so that would take
step time to do as well
I'm from east Texas so I love trees and
so that was definitely my first choice
once we explored that and that was not
the first options that we looked at that
was the latter option and the more we
thought about it and the feasibility and
after talking with Mr sabrinsky
it just seemed to make more sense for
what we're trying to accomplish downtown
we don't have a lot of green space down
there and one of the sycamores has
already died and but it's still standing
but the soil impact is definitely
probably I believe is the reason we
don't have good growth there so I don't
know based on what Mr sabrinski was say
and I don't think that just digging out
soil around the existing trees and
putting in new soil is going to solve
the problems for those but he did
definitely say that we could
re-transplant those trees to other parts
in the city
so I'm a proponent for the for the tree
option just because it is a green
spacing as mayor Pro tem said it reduces
some of our carbon footprint and it
brings green
thank you if you argue with that thank
you both so much it's really helpful to
hear honestly both the perspectives
given that it might look the same up
here at the end of today thank you very
much for serving on the committee as
well I know you're all very busy folks
and you took the time to do that thank
you I just have one more question well a
couple more actually so we're talking
about the current sycamores on the Plaza
and that some of them have died yet
there's a Mexican Sycamore option on
here is it a different species
Mr chairman board member Ben Como I
don't know the exact species but
like Mr Cruz alluded to the reasons why
the trees aren't aren't living is
because of the soil issue so
um I think regardless of what we would
put there currently that we'd still have
that same problem okay
okay
so one more question Chris how do you
say the fourth tree
feels like I'm saying a bad word
um
sure we'll go with that okay yeah all
right that was that was my question
Chris um my last question I guess is
around the logistics and maybe it's the
silly question but the logistics of
bringing in mature trees where do the
mature trees come from
the chair board member bencome that's a
great question and I think Russ kind of
mentioned that too so they would come
from you know places you know in Texas
or Florida or Arizona one of the issues
that Mr sabrinsky did bring up was
remember a few years ago when we had
that deep freeze in the South a lot of
the tree inventory in places like this
was affected so you know the inventory
today is in what it would have been if
that hadn't have happened however
one of the upsides of doing this work in
early 2024 is it gives more time for
that inventory and those aren't the only
places to get trees that's why I was
going to budget a little bit more if we
had to go a little further for the trees
but that the inventory will be
a concern at that time but you know we
would you know start the procurement
process and probably keep that to a
point where we don't have to make final
decisions until we see you know all the
options so yeah I definitely think the
one year timeline gives us more room for
that um the potential of availability
okay thank you Chris those are all my
questions here
board member of beta and then board
member Quran
thank you mayor and thank you Chris
um one of the the questions I had was
just with the the mature trees
um
the the containment that they were in
are we at risk for any sort of
um damage to the concrete that's over
there as they grow or because they're
mature we don't expect much root
uh Chester chair board member um about
that so you're talking about the new
trees yeah so I mean that would be
something that the Forester would have
to monitor over time
um and hopefully that that's something
they take into consideration that we
don't cause
damage down the road with these trees
but I don't have a specific answer on
how they do that right now so okay
thank you and then I know a lot of
residents on Conway Avenue that would
love to have some new trees
sorry I know Tony says that's a bad idea
thank you and thank you mayor
board member Koran
thank you Kristen thank you to the
committee for your deliberation I just
um also wanted to sort of say I support
the tree option but I really hope that
we can really make sure that they have
the absolutely best conditions to to
succeed in
um and so I because I would be really
sad I'm only on the council it sounds
like three other councils or half a
dozen other councils have considered
this before but I would I would like
this to be like kind of up more longer
at least medium-term solution that that
can last for a fair amount of time so I
hope that whatever the process is we
don't value engineer like the room for
the roots to grow out of that process
and the other part that so I just wanted
to express my support for the the idea
of the trees and the committee's work in
recommending that and also just to
acknowledge that I continue to realize
that we're all trapped in a Joni
Mitchell song so
so Chris I remember when we were
designing the downtown area there was a
large Chinese pistachi a lot larger than
this one here in the picture and we were
the council at that time wanted to when
they were going to remove it because it
was right in the where the roadway is
they were given maybe a 40 chance that
it would live
so I I guess I'm a little skeptical
the science has really changed that to
bring these mature trees and that
they're going to live by bringing them
here
so that's why I mean there's no
guarantee right I mean if we buy these
trees and they and then they don't live
they're not going to give us another one
I wouldn't think I don't know is there
any type of guarantee on those trees Mr
Mayor I would assume that there's
probably some type of warranty when you
when you buy trees of that size and that
cost from you know Professional Tree
farms so that would definitely be
something we would be looking at during
the procurement process
and so these trees the shade I presume
would then just kind of line up the um
the East-West side where they are
currently and so in the middle would
still be
subject to sunlight of course during the
or or during the summer time
that prison Mr chair yeah I mean the
idea being that the taller the trees got
right when you know with the changing of
the Sun the Shadows would you know
eventually cover more but I mean you're
right there will be times of the day
where the sun above the trees are not
going to have you know much of an impact
on that I probably need to share this
with Council when we did the the
contract for the Downtown Plaza
we had envisioned large trees like this
but the contractor gave us little
seedlings
so that's probably one our fault
so yeah because we wanted large shade
trees and and we just we got Charlie
Brown trees so
so what is uh did you want to move
forward to look at the trees option
oh yes commissioner Reynolds I was just
waiting for a chance to ask a couple of
questions thank you Mr Mayor
um for the bigger trees do you have a an
idea what the canopy height will be
uh Mr chair board member Reynolds uh
specifically I don't depending on which
you know which varietals we end up going
with I don't know what the max height
will be but I imagine that could be
something that you know the the arborist
could figure out and make sure there was
you know they could they'd have better
control over the trees that you know
once we put them in I'm looking at the
canopy underneath
because if we if we go to larger trees
then that's going to consume more of the
useful area along the the sides of the
Plaza so if we have trees that are going
to have a canopy height of roughly
10 feet not 8 to 10 feet then we can
still put some
some of those tints underneath and still
make them useful the other requirement
for that those have good safety great
good great safety underneath the trees
and around the trees as well so we can
make that a useful area I guess my so my
comments I'm in favor of the trees but I
want to make sure that we don't consume
the space that's usable along the site
and make it passable and safe for people
to to walk under the trees that's what
I'm saying okay
and if that's the design
then I would absolutely be in favor of
that
right if it's not and we give up all
that space because then we go to bigger
trees then uh I'd like to know what we
how much how much going to impact any
use of the area
Mr chair board member Reynolds so the
recommendation from the Forester would
be that you know if you're looking on
the map where the existing trees are now
instead of it being individual tree
Wells with the grates over it it would
be one long rectangular tree well with
trees and bushes planted in to protect
the trees and and you know give them the
best chance of survival the Forester was
recommending that we put a fence around
it to keep people and animals from going
in there and damaging it however it the
amount of extra space that it will take
up won't
drastically reduce the usability of the
space on the Plaza it would really just
be those areas in between the trees now
one of the concerns with some of the
permanent structures was that it would
have a negative impact on some of the
events there the idea with going with
the trees was to minimize the impact
that any shade structure would have on
events on the Plaza so we would be
keeping that in mind as we designed the
footprint of the nutrient
uh now I am in favor of the trees but I
still like to see a better idea of
exactly how the layout's going to look
uh before we before I would support
moving forward but then I don't vote so
it doesn't matter
thank you
thank you um
board member Reynolds we have board
member Graham and then Vice chair
Gandara
thank you Mr chair
um Chris I'm looking on the at the print
out version of this I'm on the fourth
page four or five it says the shade
panels are designed to be decorative and
removable so
easily removable if we're talking If
part of the issue with the shade
structures it'll make it too cold in
Winter we it but we could just pop the
panels out if we needed to yeah
um Mr chair board member Graham so yeah
the idea is is
um at the top those would be kind of
like that canvas material that you see
over La Placita and what we'll be using
in the the kai seed this so
how easily removable I'm not sure until
we get it designed but yeah the idea
would be that they would only be up in
the during the months that we're really
needing it and to reduce the amount of
sun exposure and you know try to prolong
the life of them yeah we would take them
down yeah as needed and put them up as
needed okay thank you that was my only
question and uh Mr chair just to weigh
in I am not anti-tree although that's
probably how it will be interpreted
because I am Pro shade structure in this
case
um again the trees are great to Echo
board member Koran I love them so much
that I don't want to see them die if we
errantly place them in a in an
environment where they will not Thrive
so for the sake of predictability
and also thinking toward maintenance
costs I'm on the side of the shade
structure at the moment thank you
thank you Vice chair gonda
thank you mayor um
Chris
if we move into utilizing the trees it's
is it conducive to I mean you're going
to have to do all this remediation I'm
assuming for with the soil but
How likely will we have
cracked once the trees are really
established the roots start growing
likely will we have cracks in there and
our um
infrastructure there because that was
what was concerning our arborists from
the beginning and to set the record
straight when we had the contractor
initially and a committee that was
comprised of a lot of folks who were
people who had great experience like at
the University who do this for a living
they recommended a certain set of trees
and it wasn't those trees that you see
out there today and there was conflict
about when to get the trees how where we
got them that there wasn't the supply
and then a lot of comps Like A month's a
committee and the contractors related to
where we could actually find them which
would be in Arizona so I I wanna it was
a there was a lot of conflict around
that because the committee voted for
what you're what we're seeing I feel
like we're at step one again
um because this is what the
recommendation was to council then
but my question is very specifically
once those trees are mature pardon me
but they're established and The Roots
grow are we going to have the kind of
trouble like we're having today with
those kinds of mature trees
Mr chair Madame Vice chair the answer is
I don't know but based on my
conversations with the Forester those
are sort of things that he was taking
into account when he was making this
recommendation so I'm sure those are
always concerns and you know if this is
the option you went through your option
you wanted to go with as we go through
the the process we can you know
figure out what the options are best to
sort of limit any type of you know
infrastructural damage that certain
types of trees
I'm no Forester but thinking in terms of
routes that spread versus roots that
grow more you know downwards so taking
all those things into consideration you
know would be things that we'd be
looking at during the procurement
process so a lot of questions we just
don't have answers to right now about
specific types of trees that we would
get into more through the process
okay
um you know I am
I would really like to have more
information from from the arborist from
Lisa from how the you know the canopy
what the feet how much square footage
will it cover I think those are all
really important and I know you're going
to kill me but maybe in option three is
half side of trees and maybe the half
side the other side with the canopy
um excuse me the the shade structure
um and then we have the best of both
worlds I think in in a lot of respects
but I I again I said from the beginning
I wanted the tree structure I mean
excuse me the shade structures to begin
with but we moved in this area it's much
more
um it's um
inexpensive to do it this way I mean
um but I I think I'm
well I'd like to see maybe that but and
maybe we just need to not table but but
part two have the arborist and Lisa come
and really talk to us about you know
answering the various questions that
we've had today I know it's difficult
because it's not your area and he
couldn't come and that's not your fault
um but but we're going to have to
revisit it in my opinion thank you
board member Flores thank you Mr chair
and thank you again Chris
I was thinking very similarly but not
along the same lines literally as
a counselor Gandara or
board member Gandara
would it be possible that there are
things that we are looking at How Deep
The Roots will go
and we and we want trees that are deep
rooted not spread out
and then we need to look at how tall the
trees will grow and then what the spread
will be
so um
because I'm thinking of a combined shade
structure and I'm thinking not on the
sides but down the middle so do you have
this picture
on the
no the one on the oh no I okay yeah well
I know it but I can I took that so I
know the angle that you oh good well
then at least you'll understand me
so if we had trees I'm thinking of
you know like beautiful walkways
throughout you know different places
um La ramblas in Barcelona
where it's the shade structure I mean
just the shade structure excuse me the
shade of the trees is the shade
structure and it's absolutely beautiful
but if we if we had trees that say had a
fantastic shade span and then say from I
have a shade structure down the middle
um you know the campus or whatever
because I think that the steel that I
think we were looking at was really
beautiful but then you have the heat
factor and then the cold in the winter
but if it was like a canvas but just
maybe as wide as the um maybe as just as
wide as the uh
what's it called the stages
can those options be looked at
yeah board member Flores
um
I think Public Works might be best to
comment on that because one of the
parameters when we were looking at this
was that we couldn't put any structures
in the middle of the plaza that was sort
of one of the the rules that we kind of
had to work around because my kind of my
thought was on the same line with yours
but
they could probably comment a little bit
better but it impacts some of the the
events there but also I don't know
structurally what the reasons were but
that was one of the parameters was
not to impact the middle of the Plaza
good afternoon board chair
member Flores so there was a
recommendation to stay out of the middle
and I believe that both came from both
Public Works and Parks and Rec there are
certain holiday events like the tree
lighting downtown visibility of the
stage from Public Works standpoint is
there's quite a bit of infrastructure
underground running through there that
would have to be rerouted so that would
add quite a bit of money to the shade
structure at that point however it can
be done it just would be more expensive
but um what exactly were the dimensions
that you were looking at because I I
think the um the question has always
been uh in so far as covering the entire
area and not just an area that is the
same with as a stage and then let the
trees come in
so was were you is the entire underside
of these of the cemented area in the
plaza is it all infrastructure affected
board member Flores there's quite a bit
of it that does have a lot of
infrastructure underneath a large
portion of it is the electrical system
that runs from the power and the
Transformers that are there that run to
other amenities along the plaza so that
would be the major undertaking to
reroute a lot of that infrastructure but
don't you have a map that which showed
you specifically where all those are and
then plan around that I mean would that
be Pop I think it would be possible
yes ma'am we do have maps that do show
that infrastructure again based on the
placement within the middle
it could be that we could design around
that but again there are other factors
that Parks and Rec have with both
viewing of the stage and also any other
events based on what infrastructures
right because the infrastructure I'm
thinking about is
it wouldn't be that grand thing that we
were looking at that had you know that
cost like fifteen hundreds one million
1.5 million but something that maybe
costs you know 75 dollars at Lowe's or
something I know just something that
would be not as complex I don't think I
don't think it would be as structurally
demanding
um can it be looked at though Chris
and
or David Mr Studio I don't remember we
can look at any options that we have
there and come up with with some costs
uh definitely but again it looks like uh
I'll let Chris answer the question on
how that would go back out for another
committee review timelines and as such
great thank you Mr Savio
thank you Chris
so do you have to send out another
timeline too because mayor Pro tem had a
similar question in terms of combining C
and can you do can that be done Chris
since we really aren't going to make a
decision today Mr chair board member
Flores certainly I mean we can Circle
back with the committee with public
works and Parks and Rec and see what's
what's an option I I know from the parks
and rec standpoint and one of the main
concerns and that's why I had three
event planners of larger events on the
committee was doing things to the middle
of the plaza that's now going to limit
what event planners can do and it's
already a pretty limited space to begin
with so those were some concerns about
keeping as much of the the obviously the
the ground as well as the space above it
free for either the the you know the
chili drop in you know New Year's Eve
the Christmas tree you know during the
holidays as well as keeping that space
open for events but but I mean we can
certainly look at anything
the cost that Mr Sadia was alluding to
will probably put this project back up
into the cost we were looking at before
you know it's gonna
really Jack the price up quite a bit if
we have to do a lot of infrastructure
rerouting and things of that nature
but in terms of the design I'm not a
designer by any stretch but and I don't
know what options we would have say it
was a feasible way to go
the structure I'm looking at is an
extravagant
structure like the one we all liked
initially a few years ago but it would
just be not as
invasive a space invasive and I think
that we can get designs
that are you know we can get structures
in our design that way so if we can get
that that would be great and to
integrate the two thank you thank you
Chris thank you Mr Mayor welcome board
member thanks Chris what I just have one
more clarifying question in terms of the
option one with the trees you do say on
here that this option would serve to
correct soil issues impacting the
current trees on the Plaza
um have is the cost analysis does that
include that soil correction it does and
there's already a plan laid out for what
that soil correction needs to be the
Forester knows already
Mr chair board member Ben Como so so
part of the cost estimate that the
Forester provided which is what I base
those numbers on would be to go in and
do all the electrical work the soil work
all that stuff that needs to be done
um and that would that would be done and
we sort of have to do all those three
things if you're going to be changing
out to those larger trees yes those have
been factored in I mean I'm I'm ready
for a decision today honestly I think
the Forester would have said this is a
terrible decision don't do trees on the
Plaza I think he would have said that
right if it was that analysis that
conversation I imagine the committee
members had similar questions than we
did and so
um I don't know that what he's going to
provide me that would either change my
mind or would be any different than the
information we have already
um but I'm certainly ready for a
decision today I think the mayor might
want to see something as a constituent
I'm not really sure
yeah
three minutes three minutes on the clock
thank you yes mayor
don't can miyagashima for the record so
what I wanted to do is use this pointer
and so what I was thinking Chris if
there's any way and I know there's a
local restaurant that has a huge tent
okay but I'm figurine something simple
let's say we had a hole right here to
hold some large poles one here one here
say here and here and one in the middle
that would be a sage shade structure
that we could provide just for this area
here I'm not talking it doesn't have to
be the whole thing just something that
that when there are some events and then
they just be removed and then the little
cap the cover of the hole so that nobody
trips breaks their ankle has that even
been discussed or even thought of
something like that
Mr chair members of the board there are
anchor points already I think that may
be what we can see I don't know I don't
want to say that so these dots are but I
know there are anchors in the plaza
um trying to think which event it was
this year it may have been the tequila
tacos event that they set up and then we
also did our job fair down on the Plaza
we brought in that large tent and they
they have the big cinder blocks that
they have to weigh it down with but they
anchored those they tied them down into
the anchor points that are in the plaza
so it already contains those types of
things for tenting
if this is really just a conversation
about temporary tenting
we could certainly look at purchasing
something that could
go that route if that's what
the board is looking at doing and if I
may before I get to the board member of
beta so all I was personally
during the the of course the summertime
is the hottest and that's where I feel
compelled to to
um you know let the public know that we
are working on a solution all the other
times is okay because it is it's not
that hot I mean it's hot but it's not
that hot so that's all I was thinking
something that's quick and simple that
could be utilized and it can be removed
and you can use the plaza for other
things that you know who knows maybe I
think once upon a time during certain
parades I mean events they have these
those small 10 by 10 like you see at the
farmers market a little littered
throughout and that's fine
but I was just looking at something that
would at least provide a fair amount of
shade much like those tents that you
mentioned when needed when there's a
city event and if they want to rent it
or if they want to provide their own
members of the public then they can do
so as well so board member beta
thank you mayor um
in favor of the tree option and the
recommendations from the committee
itself I think that's something that we
can work on with regards to
to having this temporary option I think
that would be an additional added
benefit obviously if we wanted it to be
a little bit more
long-term and permanent not just like oh
one or two day event I'm sure there's
different types of standards that need
to be looked at
um but I would say anytime that we do
that it does have to be I think
removable because that Center portion
there is where like the tree goes and
all the things and if we have lines then
I'm imagining that's what prevents us to
be able to bring in some of those items
and set it up as well
Mr chair board member of beta
could certainly look at
uh more permanent temporary solution
from like a you know a tent that's
larger in size that kind of covers
majority of the plaza and is a little
bit more permanent than you know just
kind of your weekend type tent that
could be taken down you know during the
fall and winter and spring and left up
during the the hottest months we could
certainly look at doing that like I said
there are anchor points that kind of
allow for that already
so I definitely think that could be
something we could price out and use tid
funds for that for sure
uh thank you like I said I think that
I'm
think I'm ready to to say yes to the
trees for today
um I would have imagined as well that
the arborist
um or Public Works would have um put up
a super red flag if this was not an
option that was
um sustainable or or good in the
slightest
um so I'm ready to to stay used to that
but then looking later on at mere
suggestion
before we get to board member Reynolds
did you you're making your way down here
Russ did you have a comment
yeah if you want to just for the record
state your name please
thank you mayor Russ Smith my name
um
two uh board member Reynolds your idea
that it would be intrusive perhaps for
the the
tree leaves and the overhang to be
restricting space on the Plaza I think
that would be the case there would be a
restriction it would reduce the utility
of area on the Plaza
and the footprint underneath there would
be limited
so there's some disruption but
why I'm up here again is to perhaps
enforce or
reinforce some of the mayor's idea which
is a tent that can go up and come down
there is
structure already in place that would
support that tent there are tie downs
there is apparatus that's been built
into it that would not harm the use of
the plaza so it's a great idea and that
tent size would apply itself to many
many many
points of use by the public so structure
structure of a tent
removable during the winter usable in
the summer all of that's good thank you
thanks Russ I'm board member Reynolds
thank you Mr Mayor let me make sure I
wanted to check on the timeline did I
hear correctly that if we made a
decision today this work could start in
January or is it going to be like a year
from today no problem thinking yeah yeah
normally if there's consensus that we
move forward with what the majority
wants to do and then they bring it back
another time for a vote okay all right
thank you then the other thing I I feel
like the canopy can actually on the
larger trees since we're using larger
trees could over a period of a year to
be raised the point where we could make
some of this space usable I I don't have
a problem with that and I do love the
idea of a tent that we could put that's
big enough to cover most of the plaza or
two tenths maybe one a half tent and a
half tent sew up together they do
provide you know a useful area that we
can use pretty much any time of the year
even in the winter when it gets cold
you might want to put small so those
standing heater things under a tent
which would keep people warmer as well
so there's multiple uses for
so thank you yeah you know I'm I support
trees too but when they put when they
talk about putting a fence around it I
think we're going to have a lot of
pushback from the public because they
like to hang around the tree you know
they like to shade they like to just be
under the tree
and and I think that would really be
would will be harmful if we could do
that I would just say if anything just
trim the trees higher you know and then
they'll do that and but not put the
fence around it we have to put the fence
around I think is uh we're gonna have a
little problem I think they're gonna
but um but I I I really think that
having a nice tent a very decorative
something that looks nice and some nice
decorative poles I think we're good
board member
was there somebody else here
well what would you all decide what are
we doing
no I mean
we're not voting but the majority want
trees yeah
we want trees do we need does someone
need to make a motion no we don't need
emotion
I'm waiting to see four heads nodding
yes for trees I'm going to Scene Three
yeah Mr humbug said yes yes David
board member chair board members David
sedillo Public Works director I didn't
want to make one last note that there
have been different options discussed up
here today based on what we're going to
go through it looks like any of those
would be feasible we just want to
recommend or basically remind the board
that with any of these options as we
look there could be other infrastructure
that impacted even with this so we want
to make sure that although there are
different options there still might be
additional infrastructure impacts that
could either prolong the project or
increase those costs
again I can't tell you exactly what
those are but based on any options that
could be a possibility
yeah
board member FLOTUS yes thank you Mr
chair and thank you David
um well how can they be unseen but
somehow you're
what what is it that you see potentially
or possibly that we can't see now
say for example we all voted on the
trees or we whatever
we're all in favor of the the tree
replacement and then if we go with the
mayor's idea which is similar to what
mayor Pro tem and I brought up about
having maybe a canvassed area in the
middle
if it was just a canvas that and and
Chris said that the infrastructure is
already there the places to hook in to
hook into how
is it the trees that would probably
possibly create uh unknown
conditions or what what exactly do you
mean board member chair board I mean
board chair board member Flores great
question that could be the case with the
trees alone or with the supplemental
structure yes there are anchors there
depending on the size of the structure
if it wants to be a little bit larger
maybe those anchors won't suffice
supporting it so for safety reasons if
any of that infrastructure has to be
upsized and relocated from their
existing location that may impact so
those are just some of those things but
again without knowing the exact detailed
locations I just wanted to bring to the
board's attention that there may be a
possibility for some of these situations
with infrastructure but Mr sudio what if
I what if we just went with the existing
um
extras what do you call it anchors
a acres oh anchors
so if we already have those supporting
anchors and all we're talking about is a
tent that too creates it are you seeing
the trees the the planting of the trees
have an impact might have an impact on
the infrastructure
board chair board member Flores to
answer your question specifically if we
were to utilize the anchors that are
currently there there would be no impact
because they're there and they would
suffice
there could however be a conflict with
the trees yes we do have as builts we do
have things that are run through there
but again as we take out some of that
infrastructure there may be other things
that we look at so we know what was in
the tree Wells as they exist now if we
make them larger okay then there we're
taking up that additional error that we
don't know exactly what's underneath so
again not saying that there would be but
again just to keep in mind that there
may be a possibility that we'd have to
look at other options to correct if we
find them during construction or with
whatever design we move forward with
thank you Mr Studio Mr Mr chair and
Chris are we
voting on this today or are we going to
bring it to count how are we going to
work procedurally we're not we're not
voting what gathered uh some of the
information I've received is it sounds
like if we could have staff bring back
uh two things something that
some type of a
cover that can accommodate the weight
and size that those anchors can hold is
one in addition to the trees that will
be along the various sides of the Plaza
that way there if we were to move in
that direction we would have we would
for almost certainly have shade for next
summer
and then in the meantime we'll be able
to plant whatever trees are are
available to do that as well and then if
there's a couple of them that might not
be able to go at least we have a canopy
and some trees and we may have to redo
one or two plant well plant Wells and
then what about the arborist he he
really we really should hear from him
Mr chair in terms of the whole thing and
of infrastructure and bigger areas Mr
chair board member flooded so what it
sounds like we're looking at is maybe
replacing the trees but not necessarily
to as the only source of shade so maybe
that changes the type of trees that we
would need to put in there so I can get
back with the with the with the arborist
the Forester maybe talk to him about
some of these changes where maybe
different types of trees that were not
solely dependent on for shade
kind of work up maybe a little bit of a
plan based on that concept presented the
next tid board meeting is in January and
in the meantime we can do some research
on some tenting that we could make
available as early as next summer to be
out on the Plaza so we could come back
with
a modified tree recommendation and the
shade
tent recommendation as well and that
would still give us enough time to
budget for it and be ready for the
for the summer does that sound like a
good plan
okay I saw four at least four heads
nodding yes so I think we're good on
that one good job Chris
I predicted three minutes but I guess I
was off by quite a bit
okay we're good
uh any members of the public have
anything you want to say is that good
too I saw
Russ with his thumbs up yeah okay all
right
okay well if there's nothing further
entertaining motion to adjourn second by
Third
motion made by board member van Como I
heard that one second by board member
Flores that we adjourn Christine
this is on the mission to Adorn the Ted
board meeting
board member beta yes
board member Graham yes board member Ben
Como yes board member cran yes board
member Flores yes board member Gonda yes
and chair what about
if you don't take the vote of the ex
official no he's just here for moral
support I vote Yes and it's uh we're
adjourned 2 14 P.M
thanks
foreign