[Music]
thank you thank you good morning
everyone um I'm Kathy Stark uh with
Animal Advocates for change in case
you've forgotten
um yeah right and Jerry Wheelis my
partner in crime is going to tag team as
we go through this I I first want to
really thank the mayor for scheduling
this work session and we've come before
the council many times over the last two
years um
and trying to give you information
trying to maybe plant some seeds for
ideas as to how we handle this
overpopulation of animals and at the
same time look out for their welfare um
we appreciate the opportunity today to
discuss what we've come up with as
enhancements to our current ordinance in
hopes that we can work together and
we're working with the county Mary Louis
here um and and that we can work
together and really come up with some
steps forward so that the city of lasar
becomes a model in animal welfare
because right right now we're we're
lagging so Animal Advocates for change
these are our goals improving Animal
Welfare reducing animal neglect and
abuse and suffering reduce the risk of
bites and our our bite numbers are up I
watched the asmv board meeting every
month um that's disturbing reduce
complaints educate the public in and and
encourage them
to increase their compliance with the
ordinance as a whole but especially with
microchipping I shouldn't say especially
that one just stands out to us over the
Fourth of July a group of us have
scanners and we're monitoring social
media and we would run out and scan a
dog or a cat and try and get them
reunited in the number of animals who
either don't have a chip or have one
that's not up to date and then we have
this animal who's terrified so we want
to increase
compliance and we want to really be look
we we have to get a handle on the
numbers population management and
there's you you'll see later when I talk
about it there's no one way to do
this gosh it's been years since I've
been at this Podium and know how to use
this so the current ordinance was
adopted in August um August 21st uh
2021 it took four years to basically get
TNR into an ordinance and that was the
bulk of what was in that
ordinance I became involved with the TNR
portion of it Jerry was involved
previous to
that we came before you shortly after it
was passed to point out that there were
several errors contradictions within
that document and um we started to talk
about what some of those were also that
it's not based on best practice or
evidence-based solutions to Animal
Welfare when I talk
about contradictions and errors we talk
in the ordinance about permitted cat
colonies and then we go on and say you
don't need a permit for a cat colony we
in the definitions we have a found pet
report which the shelter relies on um in
trying to reunite animals but there's
nowhere in the ordinance that says to a
resident you need to file this report so
that the person who's looking for their
animal knows that it's been found and
where it is um we the one that I gave
Clinton a very bad time on we talk about
um the definition of a domesticated
animal in the ordinance
definitions and it says that U microchip
and rabies are required for domesticated
animals but a domesticated animal
includes those that are for human
consumption so I asked Clint are we
going to start microchipping the hens um
that people have in their in their cops
in their
backyard so we want to clean that up we
want to eliminate those contradictions
those errors um and then augment them
there are definitions that are not there
dog fighting bait animals I had a lady
contact me yesterday she said what do I
do I have a neighbor with three week old
puppies and he's giving them away for
bait and we need to Define what it
is there's also something you can help
us with and we we have met with um Mr
msas um both Mr msas is at the county
with Mary
in the ordinance it says that we want
the City and County ordinance to match
to the greatest extent possible and no
one's been able to explain to me why
that is or to us why that is
um we're working towards that end right
now actually when I compare the city
ordinance to the County ordinance the
County ordinance Stacks up better than
our ordinance in the city and so we're
trying to dtail that and if you can give
us any direction on
that in the ordinance it says that our
legislative intent is to do all of these
things neglect
abandonment um minimize the number of
animals
etherized encourage responsible
Companion Animal ownership and the big
one that jumps out to us all the time is
population management primarily through
sterilization when you look at the
ordinance and you really break it down
and read it there's not much in there
that says we're trying to do anything
with population management Prim arily
through
sterilization we have the TNR program in
there but that is really it and we
really want that to become a focus and
yes it's going to take dollars and we'll
talk about that a little later so what
we've done when we started
off we said let's have a public meeting
let's get people come in and tell us
what are your concerns regarding animals
what are the problems you're
encountering and so we did that and and
the top concerns that came off out of
that meeting or a lack of accountability
and by that they meant and they
articulated this very well if animal C
control has to come out and pick up my
dog four times there are no consequences
for me and our response to them was well
I don't know let's find out so we did an
ipper request with the court and they
were right there are not
consequences next concern was
uncontrolled breeding and lack of
funding to help people people and you've
heard me say this many times there's
people out there they're trying they're
trying really hard to do the right thing
it is not inexpensive to spay a neuter
your your dog or your
cat stray and abandoned animals um last
week um two of the local rescues went
out and rescued an emaciated dog that
had been out around the farm and ranch
museum for a long time and that's a
regular occurrence picking them up out
of the desert when I was at the ascmv
the other day this lady came in and she
was distressed open the back of her SUV
and you hear all this yap yap yap yap
yap yap yap and I said can I come and
see and she said yeah he said where'd
you find them she said in the desert I
think there were 15 puppies in that bin
um and and and so that's a
concern their other concern was what
they term lack of enforcement and this
isn't a ding on on Gino um but his his
Staffing letter levels when you look at
his monthly reports on how many calls
they're getting I mean it just blow you
away and then when they get there the
animal's gone doesn't surprise me given
the Staffing level and just the sheer
size of the
city cruelty and neglect is a big one
and people wanting to know what they're
supposed to do when they witness what
they think is cruelty and and or
neglect and then the other thing that
residents have told us repeatedly is the
their sense is what they're told depends
on which officer responds and some of
that when I look at the ordinance goes
back to the ordinance when we say
appropriate
housing what does that mean you know
mayor pretend prend you may have one
idea I may have I want the Hiatt Regency
and I get the motel six so those were
those concerns that they expressed then
what we did is we just dove
in we looked at Best Practices across
the country we reached out to National
organizations um we got on the internet
we got on the phone and tried to look at
okay what's working someplace else then
we drafted the proposed ordinances and
we got Buy in from the ascmv and then
several of our local
rescues we want to focus on care and
control when we talk about Animal
Welfare we have identified at least some
mechanism for funding for affordable
spay and neuter um and to try and
address the overpopulation in the High
euthanasia rates and we've come to you
repeatedly and every time I stand up I I
remember when Senator papen was here not
too long ago and she was remembering
Margaret Markham because I told Mr enriz
a couple years ago I'm going to be
channeling Margaret Markham um she was
in my office frequently when I was with
the city and she just kept coming back
and coming back and coming back and
that's me we've met individually with a
couple of you and we provided the city
with the draft ordinance um we also
because um then we were told the policy
analyst was going to start research we
said hold on hold on give us two weeks
and we will summarize our research that
we've done so you don't have to recreate
what we've just done so we provided a 61
page document of the research
summarization of what we've done and
then as I told you at the last council
meeting I was present we have identified
vets that I wanted to help
us I think you're all aware that Animal
Welfare is a public safety issue now the
sage Publications came out with best
practices and local Animal Control
ordinances and what they conclude is
that inadequate ordinances lead to
increased risks from dog bites lawsuits
from attacks complaints about nuisance
issues improper care and lack of
protection for um animals and not
preventing animal
suffering with your backgrounds you know
there's a there's a link between
domestic violence child abuse and animal
abuse and the sage publication talks
about that so when we're talking about
Public Safety it's that direct public
safety of those dog bites it's also
those other signs and Gino alluded not
too long ago about having completed a
training about that connection and how
we can work to recognize those
situations and hopefully help those
individuals
out so I'll get into the meat and
potatoes unless you're vegan and then
it'll be the cery and the eggplant
um at the front of our recommendations
we've included a preamble which states a
commitment to car and control and it and
it is largely right out of the
Albuquerque heart
ordinance it's a commitment to
recognizing the relationship between
companion animals has
changed I hate to remember what my dad
did with an injured
dog um to put it out of its misery that
can last week there was another study
that came out about the mental health
and the physical health benefits of
having a pet or two or six in your house
we want to recognize that in this
ordinance we want to help residents spay
neuter vaccin
microchip um prevention of attacks
Prevention of Cruelty neglect and asking
the court and you're hearing a lot about
the court whether it has to do with the
vandalism that's going on that that but
asking the court to strictly enforce the
ordinance I think if you saw the results
of the io request we did you you'd be
surprised the definition section what we
tried to do is we added missing
definitions fighting breeder declog ear
cropping devocalization
neglect but then we modified some to
make it very clear what we mean when
we're talking about domesticated animals
immediately immediate control of that
animal abandonment Community cats um and
we changed the way that we refer to
pets and our role of interacting with
those pets and we Chang that to
Guardians and
caretakers and someone said well wait a
minute pets our property you can't use
the word Guardian but actually by
definition a guardian is a protector
Defender and
keeper there was just a recent study
that how we use language repeatedly
affects how we view the issue that we're
talking about and we want to start
changing that mindset not that it's my
dog and I can beat the Daylights out of
it whenever I want or I can dump it
because it's mine we want to start um
ingraining that in the
public in general care and maintenance
and and this is based on part of what we
heard in our public
meeting but also in reading it setting
clear standards for what care and
maintenance means when we say an
appropriate shelter what is the minimum
standards for that that should also make
it easier for animal control offers
officers to understand those minimum
standards and hopefully eliminate at
least the perception that it depends
which officer comes
up what constitute inadequate shelter
cleanliness hazards and I already
mention adequate now we get now we get
to the big stuff definitions are easy
and I will tell you Jerry is the
grammarian um so there were a lot of
typos missing commas um the who does
what was missing and so she word smithed
all of
that when we talk about population
Management in this ordinance this is
what we're talking about this is not
about I'm going to come to your or the
city is going to come to your house and
take your dog or your cat if it's not
sterilized we have intact animal permits
you don't want to spay neuter your
animal you're still governed by the care
and control and restraint and
microchipping and all of that but you
can purchase an intact animal permit you
can have a breeding
permit it allows us to
whoops allows us to how did how did I do
that G I think it's it's I think it's if
three isn't it like don't touch
it than five oh
three if we have legitimate breeders we
want to know where they
are we need to monitor for inbreeding
improper care of those
litters we have litter permit and in in
the ordinance what we're recommending is
if you are intentionally or
unintentionally you've chosen not to
spay neuter your animal and you have a
litter without a breeding permit you buy
a litter permit it's not cost
prohibitive but you buy a litter perit
again we know where these people are the
community can be a big help I think to
animal control because we know where a
lot of these people
are then we have the spay
neuter and there are a my of ways to
do required mandat I know mandatory
makes some people cringe um spay neuter
programs but there is an exception to
that also if the animal is not healthy
enough you get a veterinarian to say
it's not healthy enough there's still a
an ongoing debate about when you should
spay neuter large breed dogs so that
they don't run into Orthopedic
veterinarian says this this pup is too
young it's a large breed dog and then
and they have an exception to
this we looked and we continue yesterday
I'm looking
again when you look across the country
cities and counties over the last 15
years have moved to some kind of
required span neuter now that may be a
flat requirement like what we put in the
ordinance when I shoot for something I
shoot up here because I can always land
here it may be um a fix hit or ticket
approach it may be if your animal is
impounded twice at the shelter that
animal needs to be spade and neutered
and then there needs to be that help to
get that done when we talk about
capacity
um and we I've talked about this before
everybody knows there's a vet
shortage but what we tried to do is we
tried to think outside the box we
reached out to Hart New Mexico they're
up in Los Lunas and they do the shelter
medicine for Los
lunus and they showed up on my social
media feed we did 130 spay neuters this
weekend we handed out 30 vouchers this
weekend we reached out to them and said
what are you doing how are you doing
this there's a vet shortage and so they
told us they're bringing in dual
licensed vets from Colorado couple from
alquerque helped them out
and then she said and we're posting now
for a full-time vet I'm kind of good
luck with that um that was June last
week she posted that she was um posting
for surgical tech and vet techs so I
reached out to her again I said did you
get a vet she said
yes I said did they take the
compensation you had on the table she
said yes
150,000 and Par benefits health
insurance
Etc
AFC with one of our members she worked
tirelessly reached out to vets around
the state and surrounding
areas we've identified seven vets that
are interested in available to help with
spay neuter clinics we have three
additional who said we're interested
we'd like to know more there are Mash
providers and by that I mean they come
in with a mobile unit for like a weekend
and they just get it done doing a 100
spay neuters in a weekend is not
unreasonable
they're all waiting for followup that's
outside of our Arena to do followup for
them but the point is there's people
they're willing to
help we've asked before that you fund um
vouchers the county funds the snap
program the city
doesn't we need to be able to help
people so I reach out to Michelle
carella who is here today over um she's
the director over at snap and I said if
we could get a $100,000 midyear budget
adjustment could you and your
providers using the average cost that
they pay between dog and cats handle 550
spay neuters by June 30th of 24 and she
said yes they and their providers could
do
that to the best of our knowledge snap
is the only organization that's equipped
to do that
to move in the area of Spain neuter
requirements in any shape or
form it's it's got to have funding if it
doesn't have funding you you can't go
there you just can't this isn't about
penalizing people which is one of the
biggest arguments against requiring spay
an neuter so we're going to we're going
to give them onerous penalties that
that's not the goal the goal is to try
and get it done and get this population
under control and then of course it must
include in in exclusions and
Alternatives which I already talked
about so why are we saying mandatory re
required whatever word you want to use
if you look at your legislative intent
of the ordinance it says population
management primarily through
sterilization let's figure out a way to
get it
done spay neuter in helps eliminate a
lot of nuisance behaviors cats yelling
spraying dogs barking The Mating
activities in your backyard at 2 a.m.
it reduces dogs
straying most importantly it doesn't add
to the animal overp population and they
live longer healthier
lives so let's talk about the elephant
in the
room we had a teams meeting with two
representative of best friends back in
June and we provided them with uh a copy
of the working draft as it was at that
point two weeks ago they reached out and
we had another teams meeting and now
we've had countless conversations and
emails going back and forth and I know
that they have reached out to some of
you with regards to um effectiveness of
requiring spay and neuter we agree with
the best friends in the
asbca that the biggest barrier to spay
and neuter is economic and lack of
services there's interconnected factors
Transportation hours of operation if I'm
working during the day how do I get my
animal to a vet and maybe it's Dr a up
in T or
C and it often punishes the underserved
because in in some areas of the country
what they've done is they've assigned a
penalty if you don't do this you're
going to pay this
penalty on the other hand you look at
Peta and it says areas with mandatory
spay and neuter have a significant
reduction in spay neuter or in intake
and in Ethan
Asia on the issue of
studies and I'm a I'm a data
nerd the studies at the a ASPCA sites
are from 1998 to
2006 17 years ago
so when I looked at cities and counties
who've enacted some form of required
spay and neuter I said when did they do
it in the last 15 years so I reached
back out to best friends and I said okay
you're saying there's these studies that
say this doesn't
work give me citations I'm happy to read
anything I can get my hands
on they couldn't identify any recent
studies and there's reasons for
that shelter data
differs from one shelter to the other if
you're going to do a good scientific
study you need data that correlates with
each other per cap capita intake and
euthanasia decline for a variety of
reasons so you start a required SP a
neuter program and your euthanasia go
down can you say that there's a
correlation there or is there a cause
and effect there you don't know
definition of mandatory V varies across
the community so again you're not
comparing apples and oranges
absent any current studies then what I
did is that I said okay then let's go
and look at some data from these cities
and counties who have enacted some for M
Bay and
neuter so Albuquerque recorded reported
to Fox that their live release rate went
from 70% to
90% when they required spay and
notter with coid comp
complications um she said they slipped
back to 80% but they're trying to get
back up to
90% California a number of of counties
report that um spay neuter laws do work
um Lake County they were euthanizing up
to 75% of the animals or dogs 85% of the
cats in 2004 and now it is 20% of the
dogs and
25% is it because of spay neuter are
there other factors in there these are
their their data um Denver enacted
mandatory spay neuter in 2019 and they
were using euthanizing close to 2,700
adoptable animals before as of this year
and this one blew me
away from January to August they have
euthanized 866
animals compared to our
5400 but these numbers Al also aren't
without flaws because I
can not intentionally necessarily it
doesn't need to be m but I can
manipulate these numbers I can say I'm
going to have a managed intake program
and if it's a healthy animal we're just
going to leave it on the street that
brings with it a whole host of other
issues when we talk about Public Safety
I may be taking in all very healthy
animals so my euthanasia rates go down
my number looks
better so when I look at this as a data
nerd there isn't an argument to be made
that I can stand behind that says it
doesn't work it's just not in the
data so I took care of the elephant in
the room and now Jerry's
gonna gonna pick up for me thank
you thanks
Kathy
this sorry haven't done
for hello Jerry Wheelis so Kathy is much
better at this than I am and fortunately
she has gone through pretty much
everything in general terms I'm going to
go through some of the specifics and
everything that I'm referencing and that
Kathy has referenced is also included in
the justification document that you all
received with your package
so so I'm going to talk about first
special animal permits these are these
are major categories that we changed in
the
ordinance special animal
permits Jerry we can hear you but can
you talk just a little bit louder please
sure thanks I have no problem with
loudness well that was but that it was
on special so what's the backward button
backspace
okay all right so we established breeder
permits as Kathy alluded to and the
criteria for the breeder permit is that
basically they must be an official
breeder per the AKC guidelines not just
someone that says I'm breeding animals
and there's a whole slew of of things
that they need to comply with to be
considered an AKC
breeder we also added a litters permit
so that is basically a backyard breeder
but we've Li made The
Limited we've made the litters Limited
obviously intact Companion Animal
permits Kathy went through that a little
bit companion animals are exempt from
spay neuter requirement or that produce
a litter without a direct litter permit
it acts as a
deterrent our position which has also
been concurred by the
ascmv oh I'm sorry we have a multisite
permit so we took away the upper limits
of a multi-site permit uh it's
ineffective it's unenforcable people
have these animals no matter
what and our position is concur by the
ascmv it's that the upper limit is
merely an arbitrary limitation and is
unnecessary there's been no scientific
studies to identify or to support a
limitation on the number of companion
animals that can or should reside in a
residence stating the care of the
animals in a safe Humane manner
outweighed an arbitrary number a lot of
people will point to hoarding hoarding
is going to happen whether there's a
limit or not because these people have
an illness usually and they don't really
care if there's a a maximum so hoarding
is not an appropriate reason to
Institute a
limit and there are so many more persons
in here that have multiple animals and
care for them very well and I would love
for them to continue to be able to do
that also we don't want to um put a
limit on Foster animals there is
currently no uh ordinance regarding that
except for the fact that if an animal is
under four months old it doesn't count
in your count but we don't feel that the
ascmv should have to keep track of how
many personal animals a person has
before they give it a foster animal so
that goes into play with the special
animal permit and no upper
limit okay as Kathy talked about we also
added an intact Companion Animal permit
which will enable people to get around
the spay neuter
requirement okay next restraint
requirements this is tethering troling
all of those kind of things that people
object to in terms of restraining your
animal restraining your animal on your
property is is basically or putting
constraints on restraint is basically
unenforcable in addition to the fact
that it's quite detrimental to the
dog it causes aggression when a dog is
deprived of social contact it causes
sensory deprivation and it becomes the
norm boredom leads to frustration to
anxiety to agitation and to
aggression so we would we made changes
to the restraint requirements we
followed the Unchained New Mexico model
which
has very limited time span and also
um you know shade and water and the
width of the collar and all the kinds of
things that must be complied
with and to really really to educate the
public on the downside and what will
happen to your animal in the long run if
this is a continued practice I know lots
of people work but uh they don't want it
inside that's where we can hopefully
help to build fences or educate find a
dog sitter doger there are ways around
troling
and
tethering
okay transportation of animals we added
clear requirements for safe Humane
transport and clear direction for animal
Control Officers of conditions that
constitute a violation making
enforcement easier to accomplish the
ordinance right now is very general in
terms of um how an animal can be kept in
your automobile or truck especially if
it's outside in the bed and we uh
tightened that up a lot and made it
easier for an animal officer to not have
to use a discretion but say okay this is
what you're doing and this is what you
can't do there's restrictions on sale or
trans answer of ownerships now into this
ordinance made changes to include litter
and breeding permits that were
previously in there and as I just went
through multiple animal site
permits
okay cruelty neglect and abandonment
prohibits prohibitions these are all new
um we felt very strongly for me
especially it was a no- break a
no-brainer excuse me and um because
these decline will I'll go through first
but in general most of these um type of
Cruelty and surgical alterations are
done just for the Aesthetics and the
egos of owners is my personal belief and
it causes tremendous suffering pain and
suffering to an animal so we prohibit
decline in the ordinance decline as you
know cuts off the first uh digit of the
finger up to the Bone and it's a
horribly mutative surgery and it
amputates the last bone of each toe
which leaves a very painful cavity and
it can result in lifelong impairment for
the cat and also um it affects their
nervous system it can forever there are
there are many effects that I could go
through um but it just causes tremendous
tremendous mendous problems for the
cat's health and
well-being okay we prohibit now ear
cropping tail docking and
devocalization the ear cropping and the
tail docking we know is going to be a
hard cell because lots of people like to
do it they claim they show their animals
but they don't and it's just an ego
thing it's a cosmetic ego procedure and
there's no reason to tail do other than
owner vanity the risks of long-term
problems are greater than any perceived
cosmetic benefit tails are used for
communication for
balance and it causes chronic pain there
are poor poor surgery techniques out
there that don't allow for proper
closing of the incision or or enough
skin to go over the flap and tumors can
be called and tail docking is is another
mutation and and there's no need for
it ear cropping basically the same thing
painful mutative procedure which is done
purely for
Cosmetics the as you've probably seen a
dog that's been ear cropped and it
usually has to be stand up with a with a
a frame and then be taped for months and
it it affects the dog's hearing
obviously it affects its communication
with other dogs it's it's painful it
gets infected and there's really no need
for it avma and aha don't support it
it's prohibited in the UK for at least a
century and Australia and European
countries even the dogs that have
cropped ears in those countries are not
allowed to compete in in dog shows so
debarking and
devocalization that's frequently done
obviously when you don't want your dog
to
bark and um it's it's it's horrible um
there are many things that you try first
of all there's there's behavioral
therapy there's medical therapy and uh
devocalization should only be done as a
final alternative before euthanasia if
someone's going to say this dog will not
stop barking so therefore I'm going to
kill it then if that's the way it is
okay um we'd rather have that than dying
but there is no real need if you explore
and sure it's not quick like
devocalization but there are solutions
to help your dog it's not all about the
owner
so okay animal
fighting so there is no uh prohibit in
our current ordinance on this and and we
felt that that was uh quite important so
we put a definition in there we
put language in there and the language
has taken pretty much from Albuquerque
and they've had success with it and it's
past legal so um we felt pretty
confident with that and um it's it's
listed in the
ordinance abandonment am I still on this
slide
yeah the current prohibitions for
abandonment required that the
companionably left for 24 hours without
providing for its proper feeding and
care how there's no way to determine
whether a companion animal has been left
without proper feeding and care for 24
hours you can't go in the house and
check so there should never be a
circumstances we believe where a
companion animal is left without proper
food proper feeding and proper care so
we have tightened up and
um explained further the definitions of
Abandonment and penalties for
abandonment
permits we went through this a little
bit we added uh a guard dog permit we
added a dangerous dog permit we added a
potentially dangerous dog permit we
added a litter permit we had an
advertising selling permit exotic or
wild animal permit and trolley
permit these were
added these the language on these was
added to help um clarify obviously what
owner Guardians are allowed to do with
their animals and what they're not
allowed to do and how they will be
penalized if they do not
comply all right the next big one
Community cats we all love Community
cats there are so many opinions about
Community
cats uh we didn't change a whole lot
from what was done uh a few years ago we
clarified a lot of
issues uh we clarified the caregiver
responsibilities we removed the
contradictory language about
registration and permits we clarified
the location where a community cat
should be returned after it's been
or after it's been
TN prohibits moving opening or altering
an animal trap on private property or
from removal or release of any cat in a
trap when such trap is laid with the
name of the tra or owner we don't want
someone coming in there and messing
around with someone's animal cat that's
in a trap it's just dangerous and it
could hurt them or the cat especially if
it's on private property they have no
cause to of course Animal Control can
always go in and do what they need to do
it clarifies the right of the ascmv to
euthanize a community cat that is
injured diseased and or
suffering we believe that to reduce
euthanasia of adoptable or disabled
cats there needs to be criteria there
there there is none really too much now
we've kind of added that into the
ordinance if a cat is deaf or a cat is
blind or a cat is declawed that the ASC
andb should not release those it's a
sure death sentence it's a sure
suffering and um those kind of cats
should not be released they usually
don't if they see it in time but since
everything moves so fast in the TNR
process at the
ascmv sometimes it's not caught so this
just P provides a little extra caution
for those kinds of
circumstances our objective is to reduce
euthanasia of adoptable or disabled
Community cats if adoption is through
the
ascmv Kathy touched on the best friends
and the ascmv and the uh
ASPCA and
um they or best friends believes that
cats should not be retained they should
be immediately released or even not
picked
up um we don't agree with that we think
a cat should try and be adopted we think
that it should be taken in obviously for
TNR and evaluated and and I know the
shelter has very very limited time on
this but as much as possible see if this
is an adoptable cat the ability to not
bring in
cats um affects intake numbers
positively but it affects Community cats
negatively so we do not agree with their
stance on
that Danger before you go before you go
to this sure let's just talk real
briefly about Community cats uh and I'm
going to share with you just different
experiences that I've had residents call
in so and I'm not that's why I need some
clarification on this so the community
cat is obviously someone that it's a cat
that's out there that doesn't
necessarily belong to anyone just it's a
free roaming cat fre roaming okay so
I've had reports where um some residents
will have a small little dog in their
yard and then Here Comes there's this
cat that that likes to mess with it and
so are you are you saying that that uh
because in the past I think they would
give them a a a trap to trap the cat and
then take it off to animal control so
you're suggesting that not be allowed no
the opposite I'm saying that that's what
best friends says it should not you
should not bring in and trap these
animals we say we don't agree with that
that you absolutely should so why why
are you sh why are we what why are you
giv us this then if I guess what I'm
trying to get is I'm looking at the time
and and we've got an hour and 15 minutes
to try to get to no no no what I'm
trying to get it is is I when I
mentioned this to Kathy I said listen if
you got this great ordinance share with
us what it is you want instead of
sharing us with what what these guys
because well because we know that best
friends has had Communications with some
of the counselors well that I don't know
all I know is you you know what so we're
just stating I'm just stating why
because that because and and okay well
good to hear because I I thought you
were advocating this cuz I'm thinking
you know then that takes away from this
resident's right to enjoy their little
puppy or dog best friends put out an
alert which you may or may not have seen
um promoting this meeting and promoting
change and one of the uh items that they
discussed in that alert was Community
cats and we do not agree with some of
their stances on community cats I I know
I was getting a lot of emails I just
took it for granted that Kathy had her
friend send all that I don't know she
did you know her I was like bye Kathy I
mean here am trying to okay I I will
finish up with Community cats except to
let you know that um we have also been
in talk with the county because they had
a provision in their ordinance that was
um something that we did not like at all
and got a lot of uh push back and that
was a two mile release from the r grand
for cats and that's very dangerous for
cats and not necessary and we so we've
been in in discussion with u Mr msas and
Mary Lou and other members of the county
and we did come to a consensus that that
number could be 500 feet so um keep that
in mind that we have new some new
community cat language Associated around
that we didn't put it in here yet
because um Mary Lou hasn't gotten the
sign off yet but everyone is in
agreement with
it
so all right we'll speed it up
dangerous or potentially dangerous or
vicious dogs the current ordinance cites
reference to state law it is the opinion
of us animal Animal Advocates for change
that the city's ordinance should contain
the state language rather than expect
residents to find the state Provisions
that's pretty much what we did for
that
Reclamation yeah sorry I think you're a
slide ahead of yourself probably
perfect okay so we request in our
ordinance that there's required
microchip for Reclamation this is
Reclamation from the shelter basically
so proof of vaccination proof of
sterilization the goal is that all
animals should be sterilized at the
owner's expense prior to Reclamation or
an intact animal permit obtained the
reality is that surgical limitations at
the moment at the ASC MV provide
a kind of a a Slowdown on that and but
we propose a city- funded vouchers for
spay and
neuter through Snap or another
source
penalties we redid the penalty section
of the ordinance to be very specific so
that it would be easier to enforce it
for courts and for animal
control also understanding that there is
a great need for education
in terms of what you can and cannot do
with your
pet and all of the penalties are listed
and the justification for it are in the
justification
summary enforcement enforcement is a big
one um am I there yeah okay go back one
why
Kathy wants me to go back one okay you
talk about it
then I had mentioned earlier that we did
identify a source of funding um that
could be used um dedicated for spay and
neuter and and it goes to a a court case
with the New Mexico Supreme Court that a
municipality has the right to retain the
penalty portion of um that's being
assessed for a violation through
Municipal Court Court counties don't
have that option that will require a
change in state law so the court
charges like $38 for court cost that's
the court cost if there let's say it's
an abandonment case or an abuse case in
which we would expect the court to to
follow the penalty schedule that's being
being recommended to be a part of the
law that takes some discretion away from
the court we have it in other ordinances
to say if it is this offense it is not
not less than X or
Y that money then the court still
charges its $38 cost for their um
portion of the penalty and then that $50
or $100 or $500 in severe abuse case the
city can retain that and put that in a
spay neuter fund and I thought that was
important when we looking for sources of
money that could be used to help people
with spay
neuter thank you
enforcement Animal Control certainly
currently has eight officers can you get
a little bit closer to the mic there you
go than Animal Control currently has
eight officers and one supervisor there
has been no change in the number of
Animal Control Officers since 2019 but
population has grown by
16% obviously there's an an an inequity
there Animal Control should be modeled
much like community policing integrated
human and animal services however it's
not possible with the current Staffing
and
budget codes enforcement currently has
officers animal control again as I said
has eight codes makes up four% of the
LCPD budget while Animal Control only
gets
2% Animal Control is predominantly
reactive at this point because it is
underst staffed rather than proactive we
would like to see that
change
not all of uh new employees need need to
be officers they can be assistant they
can be trained to go out in the field
and focus on the
non-serious offenses not the bites or
the abuse or the neglect but something
like trying to reunite a stray animal
with its owner or Outreach and education
and connecting residents to available
assistance and save the officers time
for the major things
okay education education education or
educate educate educate uh nothing will
succeed or happen without public
education there needs to
be constant you not just a a One-Shot
deal it's crucial to educate the public
not only in the ordinance itself but on
best animal practices social media
blasts radio and television ads City web
page needs to be updated and should also
contain information on what to do in
circumstances animal control and ascmv
web pages should be updated with these
with information as well there could be
seminars and classes held at schools by
appointed persons or by the animal
control or by Clint and his
staff Library could have could house
seminars City conference rooms
Etc on how to be a good pet parent and
in incorporate the ordinance into that
discussion the courts could require
attendance at a class as a first degree
of penalty most people want to do the
right thing if they are shown why and
how not too much to say about this this
just a couple of photos from the uh
current Animal Control web page other
than it needs
work
tactfully okay what we're asking for
Kathy you want you want to come up for
this
ch uh we of course would like for you to
say everything's perfect we agree with
everything you say uh let's just go
forward with the draft ordinance as
written we know that's not going to
happen um we'd like to discuss it as
much as possible today but what we don't
get done we would love to have another
sit down with our organization and
whoever you designate but set a time
frame we can't let it lag 60 days max
let's get it done provide directions
specifically on population management
direct staff to meet discuss with us and
work towards consensus within 60 days
and then bring back to council for
another discussion and we are also
requesting the midyear budget adjustment
that Kathy brought up for $100,000 for
Spain neuter
vouchers so do you have
ADD no I think I think um the population
management issue it needs council's
Direction on where you want to go and
try to get these numbers under
control
um and the big one is come to the
table I mean it's been two years we've
been coming here for two years um we
need to engage we need joint problem
solving um that doesn't drag on for
another four years our numbers are only
going to get worse our rescues are
inundated they're
exhausted and I can tell you that if a
few of these rescues start to just hang
it up this the Situation's going to get
just much worse um they've tried for
decades to get change in the city when
it comes to Animal Welfare um and when
when I reached out to them when we
started this they
said been there done that still have a
headache and so we said let us let us
see what we can do but we really really
would like to engage in a dialogue with
the affected staff and that hasn't
happened over the last two years um now
Gina was president in this isn't a is a
hit on Gino goo's got his plate
overflowing over there uh there was a
meeting with the county um an initial
meeting on the buffer zone and I think
he's going to talk about that day with
Community CS um that he was in
attendance and we thank him for fitting
that into the schedule but we need to
come up with a plan to have that
discussion set a timeline on it what we
did with Mr ther is um he had the
ordinance we said go through there put
in your comments your questions your
suggestions you're the expert in the
shelters we're not and then we could sit
down and we could tick through all the
things that were just Minor Adjustments
catches that he got that we missed and
then sit down and spent most of our time
and it didn't take very long to hammer
out the things where we may not agree or
it may not be fitting within the
structure of animal control so that's a
big ask and then if you would consider
um amid your adjustment so we can start
haming a right on spay neuter we've got
the we've got the providers um lined up
ready to
go and I just like to add that this is
urgent we have a huge problem animals
are dying unnecessarily animals are
being abandoned
unnecessarily and please let's not delay
on this thank
[Applause]
you okay so this this is
what this is what I'd like to do Kathy
and
Jerry and members of the
audience in keeping with the elephant
theme we're going to try to attack this
one B at a time okay so yeah the
elephant so I'm going to ask my
colleagues to just hold off on any
questions just yet but let's just I'm
going to try to do this relatively quick
so you you mentioned in the very
beginning about the County's ordinance
that it seemed like you are okay with it
there could be a few changes but that
you for sure feel that that's better
than the city so my question is what of
those two
ordinances um that you like for the
counties that the cities is and so that
we can at least now we can't do it here
today but we can at least see if we can
bring it up to so that they're very
similar or bring that parity and then at
least that change can be sent to council
and then also your your request as well
so can you we do that and then um and
then work on the others as as the time
comes because I mean what you've laid
out is a lot of information it's good
information and I pretty much can
support probably just about everything I
I was needed that clarification on the
on the community cat but can you share
with us just what in the County's
ordinance that you really like that that
you don't like that part of the cities
and you're not going to hurt our
feelings either you're really going to
put me on the spot here aren't you
um well Mary Lou and I had a had a brief
conversation before the session started
today because she's looking
at what we drafted for the city our our
focus when we started was in response to
the adoption in 2021 of the new
ordinance so we focused on the city
because what I don't excuse me what I
don't want then if we do something with
the city then the countyy is goingon to
say well you know what ours isn't the
same as the city's now so let's at least
get this and then we can slowly move
kind of like you know how a crab moves
kind of this you know work to the side
you know now you're calling me crab no
I'm not calling you a crab I'm just
talking about how a crab moves what
here's what I would like to to suggest
in what in the Avenue that we're trying
to pursue right
now we don't just look at county or city
we sit down and and and we look at them
both Mary Lou has looked at the draft we
did for the city and says there's a lot
of good stuff in here we looked at the
the county I mean one of the questions I
had you know we have a a three strikes
rule for Community cats which is really
A four strikes rule um because the first
time we pick him up our our Animal
Control picks him up that that starts
the clock but after four strikes then
that cat can be removed either put up
for adoption Barn cat or euthanized and
so then my question was well what do we
do with dogs that are picked up four
times the county has great language on
that that we didn't even catch when we
came up with with the draft so my my
proposal if this is acceptable is if
Gino and Marylou and US continue to work
and go through that ordinance but in
Fairly
expeditious manner then we have one
ordinance the county has elements in
their that you don't need you don't have
a lot of livestock in the city limits
and so those get it added in and that
way you don't have a difference between
the two that's substantive we we
dovetail
them that make sense keep in yes now
keep in mind there's I believe there
still is and it would be in probably
counselor flores's District years ago
when the city was annexed there was an
area that allowed for still horses to be
out in that part of the city I think
it's still zoned that way so there you
know it may want to be left in no that's
that we left it in I'm talking about the
the density of livestock I remember when
I first read the city ordinance and
having worked for the city for about 10
years I said we we have Livestock in the
city and then I went checked it out like
yeah we do have small pockets for
livestock so that stays in um um but
instead of trying to work just on the
city ordinance and then go back to the
county to do what we're doing right now
with the community cap
buffers and the and the three of us
three there's nor three entities sit
down and just Hammer through that okay
well I apologize if I caught you off
guard I just thought that you knew what
what in the counties you like that
versus the city um that Mary Lou has
indicated that she's pretty much in
support of the majority of our new
ordinance and they are also
working sorry um the county is pretty
much in agreement to the majority of our
proposed ordinance and we are working
with them to make um changes based on
joint criteria and she is also looking
to um to change the County's ordinance
in accordance with the city so it's is
kind of a joint project okay well let's
just let's do a reverse here what of the
city's Ordinance do you not like that
you would like to see changed oh you
have let's let's you have 60 pages of it
yeah yeah yeah okay let's let's let's
start with five things five things your
top five spay neuter okay wait okay
let's let's let's let's Okay first one
is spay Anda right right uh so what is
it that you want to see that mandatory
make it mandat make it mandatory make it
required with with appropriate funding
okay okay what's the second one um for
me personally it's the no decline no
decline okay and and all of the other
okay no
decline as and the rest of the um so in
the city's ordinance it doesn't doesn't
mention it then no those are the beauty
surgeries which are are are mutated to
animals in
general that's a really tough question
question I'm just I'm trying to help
here you I mean dog fighting's
definitely got to be in there dog
fighting there's nothing that I thought
that's a state isn't that a state law
that you can't there is State language
on the the books
but yeah GS yeah there is a state law on
the book
um okay all
right well that's another that's
separate and and we're we can't take too
much uh from the unless you're on the
microphone
sorry I think the the the the
enforcement and that's a big topic okay
how about this one how about um you
wanted some questions on what is
adequate shelter does it well those are
General standards of care okay but is
that in the city's ordinance that says
yes and all we've done to that is we'
we've set minimum standards so that as a
a dog owner I know what's expected of me
it doesn't just say that you know it's
it's appropriate or has a so you're okay
with the definition with the added
language yeah I mean we just cleaned a
lot of things up mayor okay um and the
community cat is there language in there
that you're okay with I think the
community cat language that we've been
working on with Gino and Mary L will be
very good okay
[Music]
um I think you know the the the moving
of
abandonment
um under cruelty and neglect is is
critical I'm sorry say that again please
currently the way that abandonment is is
um described in the ordinance it's it's
kind of a set aside and it says you
can't abandon an animal for more than 24
hours that little dog that emaciated dog
that you saw in the picture was one that
was um abandon overhead action programs
for Animals we don't have to wait 24
hours for that you leave an animal in
that shape that is cruelty and so we
have put abandonment in with cruelty and
neglect ab and abuse um and that's huge
here and when we talk when when we talk
so what did you need us to do on that
one add to add a b just to prove it the
way we've written it in the
draft okay well just take my word the
draft the draft has old language in
Black I'm sorry I I I I I may have the
draft but I mean it would have been nice
if it been printed no I know but printed
and left but you know some may have it
yeah I yeah I didn't get the so but but
nonetheless I'm just saying you know
because it it's going to be I'm I'm just
trying to you know because there's like
the council probably has I mean this is
very important don't get me wrong but
there's you know it's just so we keep it
moving uh the ones that are the the ones
that you feel are we need to get done
like cuz remember I only have I'm not
saying they can't continue but I only
have what 90 days or less than 90 days
here so U and so I need to just want to
move as as quick as I can and well I
think the I think our point if we bring
the parties to the table and and
and that's we can Hammer through it we
can Hammer through it and get it done in
60 days I mean we can I don't think
there's going to be huge disagreements
and those that are larger we will reach
some kind of consensus just like we're
doing on the community C buffer zone
right now that wasn't difficult um but
we need to get the city to the table and
the city hasn't been at the table
recently and what I'm trying to do is
get I'm actually believe it or not I'm
working on the agenda for the next 60
days so this B neuter mandatory the no
decline add abandonment I think you said
into we moved abandonment under cruelty
oh re remove the move it move move mayor
can you allow us have some questions on
some of these items yeah yeah well after
they get two more okay I ask them for
five when we when we talk
about enforcement we're not okay we're
talking about Staffing I mean eight
officers and if I remember correctly we
have 55 square
miles that's a stretch if we also need
our Animal Control Officers to be able
to walk up down the street try to re
reunite pets with their owners educate
the public
um our website basically has not it
still says two years later that you
require a dog license in the city it
doesn't
um um so when we talk about enforcement
that's a big one and that would be one
of my top five to look at how do we how
do we do this what's the M the city has
you have your TV station you have your
Pi office how can we maximize that to
help residents when we change an
ordinance like this to let those
residents know what the expectations are
people don't know that the ordinance
even changed in 21 okay so that's a big
one okay so I've got span neuter no
declin add aband abandonment more
Staffing and enforcement that's and then
the last one would be the restraint
requirements right now we have a
two-hour limit for um re chaining up a
dog tethering a dog Animal Control will
tell you they can't sit there for two
hours to get the proof they need all
right now I'm going to let my colleagues
ask some questions and then um we'll
continue thank you I just say one thing
I want to get in the question CU I'm
currently number three but I did want to
say um our city clerk sent the draft
ordinance with the red lines on
September
28th um I know that's far down in a lot
of our emails Christine is that
something that I can forward to my
colleagues right now so everyone has
the okay it looked like some of us did
not have it but I just wanted to make
sure that that wouldn't violate anything
if I forward to all thank you I'll just
throw it at the top of your cues so you
can look at it while we're talking thank
you so it was uh Council Flores I guess
was one and then Council bomo and then
yourself thank you Mr Mayor and thank
you uh Kathy and um Jerry
um the the question I have is
um well it seems to me under first of
all thank you so much for all your work
and your dedication I really I really uh
I really appreciate that Ivon yes do you
mind if we sit down it's difficult for
Kathy and I to stand no go ahead and sit
I totally because I I have a foot injury
myself so I know after a while it's
unbearable uh so that's fine
um so
um your ask is a adoption of a new
ordinance which includes uh population
management direct staff to meet to
discuss with and then to have it all
done within 60 days um and to um have a
midyear budget uh adjustment of 100,000
dedicated to the the service center is
that correct yeah okay now in for in in
so far as communication with the with
the public um you could always have the
PS
public service announcements I think
they're required by the FCC so you can
go to all the outlets that are here krwg
is also very especially the well it's a
different population um but you can have
those masks going on day in and day out
so um and of course we have our channel
22 I don't know how many people tune to
that but I do know that people do tune
into our local radio stations and
especially krwg so that's that's my two
cents on that
[Music]
um I think that it would be very
difficult because you know I we served
on that what is it when we met on Friday
afternoons when we had nothing better to
do but meet till about whatever
Cassandra said uh mayor protm said we
only met till about 5 o'clock to me it
felt like six or longer than that
sometimes um and that was uh when David
dollahan was here that was before Co and
um and it seems to me a lot of pro we
haven't and I'm including myself in that
group haven't made a lot of progress and
I I don't know how the city and the
county are going to be able
to um mesh their local
ordinances
um I I just I don't know I'm not privy
to what legal has been doing uh I don't
think Council has been privy maybe
management Administration has um but the
60-day require the 60-day ask it's good
to ask but I don't know it's like you
know wishing for a Mercedes from uh
Santa Claus or something I believe the
60-day ask and Kathy can correct me if
I'm wrong is to to sit down together to
discuss to hammer it out to further the
process it's not to actually have it
finished but just be to put a deadline
on it so it's not further delayed and
who would be meeting the the like the as
the as our service AFC uh Mary Lou Gino
and whoever else the council would like
to
attend would it be our
board it could be if you want because
there you at the board meetings we have
we can
perhaps who's the chair oh Manny um we
can have a we can have a joint meeting
and there'd be no violation of anything
and it could include whoever you want
and then well it's you you're me I mean
I'm just saying that in order to really
get what the me see we really don't know
uh firsthand what the we know that
you're working with the county but we
don't know what the county has done I
mean I've gone through the ordinance
that you all sent or that Christine
forwarded to us and there are I caught a
couple of mistakes by the way they and
then they were yours Jerry yeah
probably but um but anyway I just I just
want to be forthright and and I really
really really appreciate your efforts
really like I said we have been working
with Mary Lou from the county side and
Gino on our side yes okay and I
understand that but Gino hasn't me with
us
and and I think it's a big onus for
either Mary Lou or for Gino to it's it's
it's a
big you know
they it's a it's a big responsibility or
a I don't think it's in their job
description to talk to the politicians
but thank you very much thank you Mr
Mayor if I may just a brief response I
think the people that we need at the
table within the 60-day hope full Reach
for the Stars deadline
um arino Mary Lou and
AFC then once we've gone through I what
we did with Clint we we hammered out in
a couple of weeks it was my
understanding and Geno correct me if I'm
wrong um that not that long ago you
thought you'd have comments done
sometime in October is that
still if he got his comments we sit down
and we Hammer those out
before it comes to you is still kind of
a h podge of well this is the county and
this is the city let us do that front
end work so it doesn't take your time
unnecessarily so what we're asking for
is Gino Mary Lou a commitment from City
management that
that Gino will be able to have that time
to to meet with us and I don't mean
hours and hours and hours it just didn't
take hours and hours with to go through
well maybe I didn't take Clint because
he's not the lawyer but I I think that
wouldn't uh I don't know Brad and Linda
I mean uh I mean I know our legal
department is barraged barraged with
work and I'm not saying that this
wouldn't be important I'm just saying
that there's just so much in the legal
department would be the one that be
would be looking at this and presumably
the County's legal department is
communicating with maryu just a little
bit more uh
contrived than just uh us sitting up
here saying yeah let's go for it let's
do it not that I don't support it that
that's not my point my point is the uh
well you know it's bureaucracy but when
I guess I'm not explaining this very
well so I
apologize at this
juncture so we've done a whole bunch of
research and we've come up with this
draft we need the people who are the
experts in the field to say this isn't
going to work or yeah we can do this and
that's Gino and Mary Lou after we after
that consensus document has come
together then yes I mean the asmp board
or a joint meeting between the city and
the county and always then the next step
is to go through legal to make sure that
nothing is violating any laws but at
this juncture just like when we went
with Clint it's like he runs the shelter
I go up there I get very depressed and I
leave he knows the day-to-day operation
so we needed him to say to us hey you
guys this isn't going to work and here's
why and we're like okay how do we do
this how do we write this to get to this
goal and it wasn't difficult we need
that from Gino and and Mary Lou just
like we're getting it right now on the
community cap buers does that make sense
understood okay yes thank you so much I
think what we need from you uh also is
just saying yes we agree with with you
this is important we want to go forward
with
this and some guidance on some of these
certain
issues well that's what I was that's
what I was giving you I was giving you
some guidance I mean I I totally totally
just being uh active in the process
years ago um I totally understand I
think I I think I can speak for my
colleagues everybody up here we're all
animal lovers I mean
totally totally cats dogs horses cows
ducks ducks oh God at any rate um yeah I
just I support it and I'll do everything
I can to uh make sure that it's
processed as as uh
as not as soon as poss well maybe those
are when you say as soon as possible
that's that's like a word of warning yes
it's it's broad but but yes I do support
you thank you very much thank you Mr
Mayor okay before I get to council bomo
our City attorney has some comments
she'd like to make yes I I appreciate
everyone understanding that presently
the legal in-house legal council office
is comprised of two attorneys but
nonetheless we have reviewed the
ordinance and we've provided legal
confidential legal advice to the
counselors on the
recommendation and so I believe that
Gino who's been reference repeatedly is
prepared to make some
commentary
Momo did you want to hear from Gino
before you make your questions okay or
ask your questions
Gino thank you Linda come on
down good morning mayor city
council let me go to my presentation and
I I think because of time wise I'm going
to make this as quickly as
possible if the
I know everyone's called you Gino but do
you mind just for the record stating
your
name uh Gino humanis I'm the animal
control supervisor for for the
city so the current ordinance was
approved in October of 2019 it actually
took effect January 1st of 2020 some of
the changes that were made from the
previous ordinance were the uh exclusion
of the feral cat colony and it included
the community cat Provisions that what
we see now
um it also included U wording from the
state statute as far as a dangerous dog
and potentially dangerous dog uh those
were taken word for word from the state
statute and put into our ordinance
another thing that it did was take away
licensing uh did away with licensing
completely and made microchipping uh the
only mandatory form of
identification and then we went to and
some changes here were the nuisance
barking uh but more or less made it a um
a civil offense or a civil matter
between a neighbor and the dog owner um
because what we were discovering there
was that the majority of our barking
complaints are coming out at 11:00 2:00
in the morning 3:00 in the morning when
the officers were off and when we would
come to uh on duty at 8:00 in the
morning there was no more barking so it
was really uh a misuse of our resources
of our Personnel so we made it more of a
civil
issue
now the dream ordinance um before I go
on I want to say thank you to Kathy and
Jerry because this dream ordinance
really showed their passion and their
commitment to the animals in our
community it also brought forward
something that we can take forward I
should say as animal control and tweak
our ordinance just a little bit because
as our ordinance is Wren there are a lot
of holes in it and this dream ordinance
did fill those um so one of the couple
of the things that we took from here
were the mandatory spay and neuter the
population control that's one of the
focuses that we really really want to
one of the topics that we really really
want to lean into um and again the
addition of uh additional language to
the community cat
section so as we look into revising our
ordinance some things that we would like
to see added uh the killing of livestock
taking that from the state statute word
for word putting it in our ordinance and
Jerry and uh Kathy brought up a very
very good one as long as well as maryu
is also to include the wording of uh
blood Sports dog fighting and
fighting taking that word for word from
the statute and putting it into our
ordinance
um a little bit of re wording on the
danger and potentially dangerous dog
statute as it's written there's one word
missing in the current statute that was
overlooked I guess through legislature
whoever approved it and that was the
actual um bite causing death of an
animal it's not in the statute and all
it says is severe injury so if a another
dog kills a dog it's not a SE it's not
potential it's not dangerous it's only
potentially dangerous so we want to
tweak that a little bit so that the
killing of a of another dog is
punishable in our in our
ordinance
um we want to include the litter permit
as well as the mandatory spade and
neuter and the breeding permit to mirror
donana County's ordinances um Mary Lou
and I have been in discussion for a long
time and we do our best to make those
our ordinance
mirror them are as each other as well as
possible but what we have to understand
is that the county has different
requirements and Provisions that the
city would Parcels are huge in the
county they're not that big in the city
so we have to amend those certain
sections to mirror what we can and
cannot do within the city and in the
county obstacles to the dream ordinance
number one very
wordy and I see again the passion that
these ladies brought forward into this
document totally appreciate that however
the the dream ordinance is written more
like an sop right now than an actual
ordinance these are things that I can
take back if we approve certain sections
of this dream ordinance take it back
through legal through uh my
Administration and everything and take
those words and make take those sections
and make them enforceable however ever
the majority of is an sop this is how we
as officers are going to operate these
are how we were going to address these
specific uh
issues availability of of veterinarians
and these are topics when when I was
sitting here um listening to Jerry and
Kathy I was like that's what I was
supposed to
say so they did it for me um
availability of
veterinarians um the added expense to to
the owners um if we're going to make
mandatory spay and neuter um part of our
ordinance how is it going to affect the
citizens of this community that are
already
strapped um
how how are we going to enforce that
without putting an extra burden on those
citizens as
well I I brought these two slides up
next to show you where we are right now
as far as animal control so these is our
this is our three-year uh stray C
Straight call
comparison and you can see for the year
so far we're at
4,067 calls for service to address stray
animals
um we are if you keep looking at this
trend we are going to exceed our 22 and
22 21
numbers um so far this year Animal
Control has responded to
9,621 calls for
service um and this one takes up I I
believe like 50% of our of our call
volume if you have any questions about
the slides please um let me know here's
our community cat um graph that we only
started taking um information or data
last year Because by the time that the
the ordinance was
um approved and went into effect in
January of 20 when we had all the
specifics worked out we were able to
finally uh start taking data in 2022 and
this is that
graph so for 2022 we responded to 555
cats in traps of those
102 were Community cats that we released
again those were cat cats it never CR
crossed the Threshold at the asmb
reducing uh Clint's euthanasia rate so
we helped out that way so far this year
we are at
526 cats uh in trap calls and we've only
released
96 98 I'm
sorry
96 so with that I will stand for any
questions if there are any or I can add
anything to that thanks J you're welcome
let me let me ask counselor bomo and
then Graham and Corin if they have any
questions on you specifically and if not
then if you want to be around so councel
Moma thank you thank you supervisor
Himes for your presentation as well I
was sort of wondering when that was
coming because I think I was like oh
gosh this starting to feel like a very
ineffective place to have this
conversation but um this is definitely
more helpful I I guess most of my
questions were around um enforceability
and how you sort of because I agree with
most of these things I think honestly
um really the one thing I disagree with
just from my own research is the
mandatory spay neuter that those laws
disproportionately impact low-income
communities and people of color and so
I'm really curious about their actual
effectivess and if they if it's going to
do what we want it to do which is
population control and from everything
I've read it doesn't seem like that's
the case and um but really just for that
and then everything else just around the
enforceability of some of the issues and
how you foresee that yes ma'am mayor um
Council it's hard to say right now
because it's not part of our section
it's part not part of our ordinance so
it would be a lot of retraining and
training of the officers how I see it
happening is going to be difficult
because if we come up to a citizen that
does not meet the requirements or has an
unaltered
animal
and we either educate or we
enforce initially I like to tell my
officers to educate first because what
we want ultimately is voluntary
compliance that's the best result for
both parties for us and the citizen is
voluntary
compliance now if it doesn't happen
within a specific time period now we
have to go back and enforce now what
extra burden are we putting on those
people absolutely I get both sides of
the story both sides of the the page but
how and what extra burden are we putting
on those citizens that don't have the
means to alter their animal yeah and I'm
curious thank you for the Advocates I am
curious about how you see the
enforceability do you see a $200 fund
like what is it that would be the
consequence I I believe I can answer
part of that uh because all of our
citations go through municipal court so
the fine could be maximum of uh $500 and
or 90 days in jail um anything below
that is at the judge's disc
discretion and what what we propose that
we take some of that discretion away
from the
judge because people do need to be held
accountable when we're talking about
requiring spay and neuter and that's why
I mentioned there are several ways to do
this and that's
where we need some
direction the point is not to go out and
round up people's dogs and cats or the
people themselves or the people um it's
how how can we best help them do what
they're trying to do I mean you remember
the last time I was before the city and
we talked about the snap data that you
know almost 700 of the people that went
through the voucher program with SNAP
we're City residents but we don't fund
snap so what could we do if we did fund
snap if we have you know almost 700
people paying $39,000 and these are
low-income people I mean I felt bad to
see them having to pay that amount of
money they're already accessing that
that we need some funding to augment
that that we're not going out and
whacking somebody upside the head we're
going out and saying how can we help you
yeah so I actually there's lotteries um
that people can so I actually really
support that without putting in the law
that there is this mandatory thing that
then we have to figure out how to
navigate the court system with right or
the officers have to navigate well it
says this so now I have to give you a
$500 fine $500 fine I might not be able
to pay and then I'll have a warrant for
my arrest right so like how does that
actually solve what we're trying to get
at because I agree with you on the other
pieces around actually we do need to put
money behind um programs that help
people um spay neuter their animals
right everyone deserves to have animals
and it shouldn't be a matter of well if
I'm poor I shouldn't have a pet right
and so um I think we can get to that
without specifying in the ordinance now
it's mandatory because then it adds all
of these other layers to um the officers
and the court and then my other question
I I was interested in some of what you
talked about in terms of the data that
you all got through the IAS with the
court and how many um sort of things are
going sort of not being held accountable
right um I wonder if if there is more
layers I mean I'm sure I know there's
more layers to the data I wonder if you
sort of dug into them around
um was it low-income folks was it like
who were the folks that were coming to
court four times and not being held
accountable I would be really interested
in that because I actually think it
could tell us a significant like could
tell us a different side of the story
that we might not be seeing and we might
be able to address the issue differently
and I don't know if the court um keeps
data on um income level of the people
coming through the court I mean I can
ask
um I did find last night I'm going to
call Jamie Michaels over at the county I
did find last night spay neuter
feasibility study formula that the state
has been working on where they look at
um lwi income and they're defining is
number of people on Medicaid and then
there's a formula to actually project
given your population size what are you
talking about with the number of of
animals what is the cost of that so that
you can actually come up and forast c um
what requiring span neuter would would
cost in the long run the other point
that I and I don't think I made it
earlier and I apologize is what we put
in the ordinance what we don't want to
happen is what happened with
TNR
when boom it just went into effect and
Clinton doc comes in on Monday morning
and there's 45 cats and traps so what
we've put in there is is we're going to
require spay and neuter there's got to
be a phase in period That's funded that
we get word out to the community and we
have vets lined up like the mass units
to come in on weekends and get it done
so that we can get as many of those done
UPF front before there's an Enforcement
issue to even have to be addressed
because you don't want to drop this um
like a
bomb I think and also that um part of
making it mandatory is that then that no
animal will be able to leave leave the
shelter without being spay or neuter and
that's not a requirement now so then
that could be its own separate uh that
could be its own separate addition then
right to the policy so I just I what I
really hope happens after this because
you're right this has been way far too
long we need to figure something out I
think everyone can agree that there's a
problem and that we need to figure it
out I also just want there to be like
clear and strong in good faith
communication between The Advocates and
the city um on how we address some of
these issues right and if the city says
look that's really un enforcable that
The Advocates are willing to hear that
right I will just say that I right now I
will tell you that I'm I'm not in
support of making a spay a mandatory
ordinance um just from the research that
I've done but I do agree with all of the
other pieces you added to the spay
neuter which is funding program so I
will say that from my end at least and
um that I I think it's really really
important important to make sure that
the folks on the ground are being heard
around like this is difficult to enforce
Etc right and that's what we're asking
for in the 60 days Gino Mary Lou and us
will sit down and and let's go through
it and and use their expertise to tell
us we can't do this there's no way and
here's why yeah I just I really do want
it to be in good faith because I think
ultimately we really all do want the
same thing exactly thank
you thank you councelor Graham councelor
Corin thank you mayor thank you all uh
supervisor Jimenez how many ACO
positions are currently allocated in the
city budget and how many are currently
filled
please mayor uh councelor Graham I am I
am budgeted for eight Animal Control
Officers and one supervisor and we are
completely staffed right now okay so we
are not having trouble recruiting or
retaining Animal Control Officers no
ma'am not like we did during Co we are
good now because when you and I did ride
along together um so that situation has
changed so and I know I'm asking you to
have a crystal ball but the creation of
new positions would be able to be filled
in your based on how things are going
now absolutely yes ma'am thank you um my
other question and I think this is for
you supervisor Jimenez um where does
okay so we had referred to penalty
money uh money that money that is taken
in when people pay fines or penalties
which Miss Stark you had had advocated
for putting into a spay and neuter fund
am I am I on the right Planet okay
awesome um where do the where does the
penalty money currently
go mayor commissioner Graham uh Council
Graham that money currently goes into
the city's general fund okay great
ballpark how much a year
I guess what I'm asking is it a
substantial amount of money that could
make a real dent in the problem that
we're talking about I I have no idea
ma'am I think that would be a question
best answered by Municipal Court okay
great if if someone I I don't know I
Connie or someone could please get
follow up on that on that funding that
would be amazing thank you so much and
then I think the other question I have
is for is for Kathy and Jerry um
obviously we're talking about you know
I'm looking also specifically at the
mandatory spay neuter at least initially
this would lead to a pretty big influx
of animals coming into an already very
taxed shelter system um and I realize
that Solutions like this long-term
Solutions take time how long would you
say what's what's an average you know we
Institute mandatory spay neuter how many
years realistically does it take for it
to really have that kind of impact that
you were citing in other how long does
it take us to get over the tsunami you
know what I mean of animals being
brought into the shelter system if that
question makes
sense Mr May um councelor
Graham I'm not sure that I understand
when you're saying animals coming into
the
shelter so what I'm imagining if we did
let's say we went hard on enforcement
and we officer I'm sorry supervisor
Jimenez and the officers are really
cracking down getting a lot of unaltered
animals bringing them into the shelter
you know where they would not be
released unless they were spayed and
neutered if and I'm kind of imagining
this you know when when you tell me the
numbers that we're seeing I have this
mental picture of you know 500 animals
showing up
at how how long does does it take for
the for the ordinance to
really a yeah make a difference to
because I'm sure it's not an instant fix
obviously Clint might be able to
elaborate on that a little well I don't
think we don't want to go out there and
hit this
hard and the shelter can't handle that
influx of animals and that's why we're
saying there needs to be whoops there
needs to be a protracted period in which
we tap in resources if we have some city
funding use those resources educate the
hack out of people to get that spay
neuter done before there's ever an
enforcement armed to that I mean if
that's two years if that's three years
to do that and really ramp up the public
education and use vet resources that are
available and hopefully fill the
position that that Clint has before
we're ever in enforcement
because
he he can't handle that influx and I
don't think that's fair to the residents
that have pets to say you know starting
next November 1st you have to have your
animal spade and N because it's not
possible with vet resources that's not
possible with the socioeconomic makeup
of our community okay but with a with a
phased
in a phasing in we could avoid that kind
of worst case scenario situation that I
was inelegantly describing so we are
talking about this could be over the
course of a you know even a couple of
years oh yeah definitely definitely okay
that's and I think that that that public
Outreach that education piece is so
important um during that period and
tapping into the resources that said
they're ready to start helping us next
year it's October already next year is
around the corner can we get that set up
and and that needs Clint's help I mean
we're not the we're not the surgical
people um as to how to make those things
work okay great thank you so much thank
you all thank you mayor thank you
councelor Corin councelor beta thank you
mayor thank you Kathy and Jerry and for
working on this so diligently for such a
long time supervisor her minis thank you
for coming to these conversations um I
my question was sort of similar to to
councelor Grahams
uh right now 40ish horrifyingly animals
come into the shelter each day um as
Strays or owner released I would that's
a rough average
um I'm curious what Capa what per on
average what percentage of those are
unaltered right
now so if you like on a single day What
proportion of animals and let's just use
this as an estimate of all the
relatively uncared for animals in our
city what would you estimate that rate
to be Clint ther executive director of
The Animal Service Center I would
probably say close to 90% are not
sterilized coming to the
center so I think that this goes to
issues of capacity that are that are
intractable that is if if we said we
were going to sterilize all those
animals there would be no surgery for
any Community organization any TNR
anything else
correct right there that would take up
every every shelter slot of of fixing
probably keep in mind um that any animal
that leaves the center has to be
sterilized or it has to have a voucher
purchased for
sterilization so those animals if
they're leaving the center they are
sterilized or purchase the voucher and
that and that's per law New Mexico state
law adopted or yeah as well as adopted
so any animal that leaves the center is
sterilized or has is going to a rescue
organization that will sterilize it or
has a voucher purchased by the owner to
sterilize it so when you say there's
going to be a huge influx of animals
that are coming into the center and be
sterilized there will not be because
we're already doing it uh as far as the
animals coming in being sterilized but
those are animals on their way out that
I'm I guess part of this would be
animals that are coming in that are
picked up and going back to their their
owners within the three or five three
day period yeah and we're currently
doing those as well return to owners so
that is that is already part of
the process that's happening yeah so the
mistake that I'm seeing things is is
that people are thinking that gos
officers are going to impound these
animals because they're not sterilized
and bring them to the center and I don't
think that's the way that we're seeing
how the program is going to be run it's
mostly an enforcement program uh and
that's something we can discuss and talk
about so there's there's different types
of citations that can be used
uh you know like if you come into
compliance then this citation can be
destroyed or if you show proof of
compliance then you don't need to show
to court some things like that that that
we can pursue and and look into but as
far as being I I do not support
mandatory spay and neuter if you're
impounding because they're not
sterilized that would I mean can you
imagine the number of animals that
coming into the center would just just
explode but I am support of it as it
shows that it does reduce population
over time the any any program for spay
and neuter you're looking at a three to
five years until you see some
significant results coming from it and
that goes for a community gap program
that goes for mandatory spay and neuter
with dogs
Etc thank you I appreciate it I think
that's sort of what councelor gram was
also alluding to so thank you and I
think that's the philosophical
orientation that we're all leading
toward so I I really just want to Echo
what councelor Beno mentioned which is
we are I think that this is something
that we're committed to um I do think
there are opportunities to
increase educa the education end of of
what animal Control Officers do but I
just want to name a few things that I
think in this conversation a lot of
folks really um perhaps don't
necessarily have a sense of the balance
of
What kinds of things Animal Control is
is working on and I think it's very
useful to to attend Animal Services
board meetings and and listen to to the
Animal Control folks but I think in the
context of enforcement
um I I think that first of all
enforcement that problematizes a certain
class of people whatever they are it it
won't pass muster from from my
perspective so if it appears that it's
going to be punishing poor people it's
not going to be included in our in our
in any ordinance revision so that's the
very first layer of sort of where I
would expect types of enforcement to go
I would also argue that enforcement that
increases animals going into the shelter
is also problematic so I think however
we we work that out animals going into
the shelter contributes to our increased
euthanize like the and so I think a lot
of folks often email us and say can you
please have someone come and pick up
this animal from my neighbor because
they aren't treating it well um and sure
uh I think our our our worst youth in
youth in Asia rate this summer was
somewhere around 50 or 60% live release
rate very low in in terms of what our I
think our goals are so um I think I hope
that we can continue these conversations
and have those two spaces that is not
increasing the population at the shelter
um through an enforcement mechanism and
not stigmatizing folks who are poor
while also I I think that education and
support are are critically important so
I think I'm really intrigued by the idea
of having um commun I mean and and I
know that you all commun like the
community steps into to spaces where we
can't where the limits of enforcement
exist and so I don't want us to rely on
that but I do think that in a lot of
ways um there are opportunities for us
to collaborate more and I think building
the structure within Animal Control to
allow for that Comm that sort of
coordination sort of like the TNR
coordinator position at the shelter
which is sort of an evolving
thing that's really oriented toward
Community Animal Control like making
those connections I would like us to
think about investing in those types of
if we were going to invest in staff um
City adding City staff I would ask that
there be a an orientation toward sort of
community and education rather than
enforcement so I would I would hope that
that would be the kind of investment we
could make but moreover I just do want
to say thank you and I think that we are
here for it and we do read the emails
that you all send us um whether we
whether we we reply or not um but I
think the the conversation definitely
needs to sort of find a balance between
and and I would also ask that in that
evaluation we consider doing things that
are not that might not be within our
comfort zone
um in terms of pushing the state laws to
the like pushing the state law beyond
the state laws in places where we can so
I hope that can remain part of the
conversation and that isn't part of
shutting it down just saying the state
says this so therefore we must say that
I think it's possible that we have
different models of enforcement and and
understanding in this area and I hope
that we do that as we move forward in
this more this collaborative
conversation so um I would ask us to
think better our state is very poor in
terms of state laws so a SC like that
being our best is not good enough I
don't think
um and so I think we can do better and I
hope that that is still part of that
conversation so that that's all that I
have but thank you for clearing up that
question and I appreciate you all very
much thank you Mr mayor council cran if
I could add something to what you were
saying um and Clinton Jerry and I and
and some others talked um for a couple
years about friends of the shelter and
at the last asmb board meeting you know
paperwork is has been filed let's think
creatively about that um there's an area
IAS Lunas that does sponsor a spay and
neuter where that money would go to the
friends or whatever its names may be and
if we have these Veterinary resources
out there we can help people if they
need food to keep that animal out of the
shelter we can do that and we can build
a volunteer base to do that um and and
look for ways that we're truly trying to
help people and their animals before we
ever get Gino involved even though he's
a nice guy Clint Clint don't take off
just yet how much does it cost
approximately for the spay neuter the
program to fix an
animal the veterinarian cost alone is
$35 per animal I want to say it's around
$65 and that is Staffing all the EXP
Expendables that we use um and time okay
thank you
counselor beta and then mayor proam and
then councelor flotes thank you mayor
actually that was one of my questions um
but first thank you all so much for all
the work obviously lots of time effort
energy resources were taken to um put
everything together so I just want to
say thank you for that and for your
dedication I am one of many that has a
few animals that are wonderful
companions and I recognize how important
it is for us to make sure that their
other animals are cared for in our
community uh one of my questions was
going to be about that of the cost of
spay neuter um the question for me if it
is about $65 for the shelter itself do
you know what the price is in the
private sector for veterinarians as well
if it's uh the same or if it differs
greatly very very good question and and
uh if Miss bomo can also help me with
that too we did a study when we looked
at the cost analysis for the center um
on offsetting some of our costs to doing
public things and that's the cost we did
the cost was anywhere from it differs by
weight and it differs by male or female
um and also by age but you're looking
anywhere from $400 down to 150 I think
was was about the spread that we saw and
that was asking
um it was about what five six
veterinarians in the in the immedia
local area okay thank you um and so and
forgive my lack of knowledge on this but
with the snap program then if there was
if we were to put money into that and
give out a voucher then is that
something that is to be could be used
for both the private sector and for your
sector
yes so and we actually have an agreement
with SNAP to do a special price with us
it's close to at cost I believe I think
it's around
$75 for that and the reason why so they
get a um a what's the word I'm looking
for SNAP gives them a fly or a voucher
that's it they get a voucher and then
they can go to what what where they want
to they like to go to the snap likes
them to go to a to us because because
we're cheaper or I should say more
economically uh there so uh so their
money goes further but yeah they can go
to any place okay and does your cost
also include obviously staff time
supplies if we're looking at growth in
the future um you know veterinarian
costs we know their cost of service is
going up too so would that all be
included that price was developed about
three years ago go uh so it definitely
probably has increased uh I can get a
current price for you if You' like but
if we get another veterinarian on um
obviously we're going to have to pay
them a lot more than what we paid the
veterinarian then so uh we can get an
updated cost but that's the best that we
have right now so but with the price to
answer your question yes it would go up
okay thank you and then my third
question and thank you CL most of these
questions are going towards you um we've
talked a lot about education I am happy
to hear my colleagues as well uh talk
about education to the public I know
that ascmv has a bit of a budget for
outreach um mostly I think it's for
adoptable animals but if there's
anything if you could just um re-educate
me a little bit about what that budget
is that you have maybe for um whether
it's the website or little
advertisements that you have we do have
an advertising budget it's just over 500
,000 no I'm sorry just over $50,000 out
of the zero over
$50,000 and we do uh radio ads we do um
print ads we do you know all the
Billboards all those uh also on Facebook
Instagram all the social
medias we can draft those or or do
whatever we want with them um I know we
have some graphics on social media right
now that talk about spin neutering and
one of the pictures that that was showed
here was was from our our picture that
we had and I mean we can change for
anything and I mean for example is as
we're changing it in the month of
October our radio ad to be for our
drive-through clinic so it can be done
fairly quickly and and completed we also
have some education material in the
budget for our community cap program
manager I want to say it's around
$5,000 a lot of that is going to
Printing and um and purchasing the
information so she can leave DOR hangers
and information out in areas that she
canvases okay thank you very much and
thank you all again thank you mayor
thank you councelor mayor proam and then
councelor Flores thank you thank you
Kathy thank you both for everybody out
here I know you've worked so hard um to
put this together and um Gino I
appreciate your input as well Mary Lou
um so as a child welfare worker and
administrator kind of referring to laws
on you know 32-8 I really I really agree
with the fact that we need to have a
preamble we need to have very clear
definitions in our ornn so people
understand from the get-go um you know
what the definition of Abandonment a
definition of community right cats I
think those are all very important
um in in my mind um and I thought that
as um and more particular more um
specific to the cat the TNR program I
thought that um Gino you had made
mention about this is mostly policy and
procedures um that you and codes were
going animal codes were going to
specifically address this in some sort
of um pamphlet um related to the
policies and procedures has that not
happened that that was very clear um as
we were moving um a couple of years ago
that you were going to set out um to do
that
specifically mayor mayor protm I
probably I don't understand exactly what
you're asking I understand what you're
asking except I don't remember that
specific I do and we should probably go
back and look at that because I thought
it would be the owness of animal coats
to put that together um it was the same
um it you were were very concerned about
how wordy it was and a lot of this was
about moving away from putting it in an
ordinance and having pamphlets
specifically to um codes Animal codes
and also the center and I think we
should go back and look at that because
that's something that should already
exist and if it isn't we should work on
it and but I still see it as separate
and aart we should all have Poli
policies and procedures that operate
specifically um you know our department
specifically but I feel like we need to
be very clear and communicate
effectively with the public about what
these definitions mean and and sort of
moving
forward um I am for mandatory spade and
neuter I think it's important that we
have that um as someone probably the
longest standing
um um counselor on the on the animal um
Services Center Ian we've been dealing
with this for a really long time and I
knew it was big to do mandatory
microchipping and we haven't made it to
that to that space yet and I think it's
because of um the lack of
communication um that we have to the
general population and finding ways
right to to communicate more
effectively um I want to say that I I
am I am in agreement to looking at
adding more funding for the spade and
neuter um but I also want to talk about
penalties could we not as counselors add
I think those that not only 500 and
maybe this is for Linda
$500 up to $500 in 90 days in jail but
couldn't we do other kinds of things
more specifically in terms of you know
um that's for the court but that's our
ordinance we we set that as counselors
do we not mayor Port that's the maximum
we can go the judge can get but we said
that correct well that's no I think
that's state law for for municipalities
on regarding Mr
Meers but could we add other things like
I think the Judge does stuff like that
the judge is within his his or her
discretion May if I may Jerry we have
put in Who's Talking Jerry God I'm I
looked all along the Das is god um we
have put in the ordinances uh different
levels of penalties and most of them are
starting with animal control discretion
and with education and so they are
variable it's not just dropping the
hammer yeah yeah and that's what I I was
hoping um that we would and maybe that
would address more like um not
penalizing poor people right that there
is some
flexibility in that okay I didn't I
didn't can you I have if you would tell
give me a page number that would be um
appreciative because I I would really
like to see that that we start sort of
at the lowest levels possible and and
making our way up to up to $500 I think
the only thing we didn't start low was
at um animal cruelty and viciousness I
think okay we kind of went for the max
right off there but I I want yeah we'll
give you a page yeah thank you I wanted
to ask about any um in terms of the
um sort of evidence-based practices or
best practices related to straight
animals what i' I'd really like to see
for codes specifically because everybody
sees the numbers right you you're going
out they're already gone um many years
ago we I know that um the Animal
Services Board spoke of what other ways
can we address this and still manage the
safety and well-being of you know the
people and the animals and I would be
interested it has your research
indicated any other ways um to neuter
well meaning um for coats for coats to
go out right because right now when they
go out it's like um I think a misuse of
their time when they go out when you
look at the numbers you're in the
thousands where you you miss the animals
right um and so I'm interested in
hearing more about best practices
related to how cods can go out from what
I understand Andino can correct I think
you're probably at about a 50% rate and
um there's also I mean to in my opinion
that can't stop because there that that
one dog could kill that one person and
you can't leave it out and being outside
they become more aggressive and lots of
other personality traits whatnot it's
also a liability issue for the city if
that dog is not picked up then you're
going get picked up is my point I'm
asking you come through the research
what other research is there in terms of
best practice if you can find it I'd
like to have it so I can read
it
Gino okay and then
um I wanted to move back to the
restraint
requirements um and how we get around
how how do we deal with that because
Kathy you said you don't Co doesn't have
two hours to to manage right to be
observing a home where there's a
tethered animal restrained
animal um what are you suggesting there
you said very limited tethering
allowed and you made mention the unchain
New Mexico model well unchain I'm sorry
Mr Mayor mayor proam um the unchain New
Mexico effort um was through a nonprofit
and they got grants and they would come
to your home for example you got a
German shepherd and they're notorious
for going over 4 foot five foot walls
you're having trouble restraining sheer
you do I did yes good guess on my part I
got um in in in in again Outreach to
that homeowner looking at that property
what is it do they need and what f
funding sources did they have through
grants to do that for example I'm
frequently sending dog owners it's a
great picture it's very inexpensive
where you take um PVC pipes and brackets
at the end of your rock wall and you
mount that PVC pipe on a on a a like a
clothline wire so when the dog gets
there it just does this and and it can't
go over having um I worked with one
homeowner who's cat they want wanted
their cat being outside and I keep
saying put the cat inside it's better
for them to be inside no they want to be
outside and how we very inexpensively
got someone to build wooden slats that
lean into the yard the cat couldn't go
out of the yard but it got to enjoy the
backyard so looking at those what are
those grant funding opportunities what
are those if we have a friends of
organization what are those local
business people that would sponsor um a
program that would would help people
keep that animal in instead of just
chaining it to a
tree I think also too that um in terms
of actual
enforcement uh there's a two-hour
provision now that the animal has to be
observed for two hours now that's never
going to happen so you could have an ACO
drive by periodically within that
two-hour period And if you if he sees an
animal tied up say you know three or
four times you can assume that that
animal has been tied up the whole two
hours I mean the situation G and you've
tal we've talked about it g know I'll
have an officer go out to the home it's
my home um and that dog's chained up
I'll say I just put them out
there the neighbor said it's been there
all day but Gino doesn't have enough to
do anything with that because it has to
be two
hours um and
so educating dog owners on what that
does to an animal
and the risks involved in doing that and
then looking at how do we help them
restrain the animal on their
property so before we ever get to you
know we're gonna we're gonna we're going
to find you so to clarify when you
talked about limiting you're still
suggesting the two
hours no it's less than that when you
talk about restraining
requirements the public says no but I
want to hear from you
I need to find
it because you didn't give specifics you
said limit very limited tethering
allowed I'm going the wrong direction
here 1 hour and a 12 hour period
okay and I apologize we had a lot
of difficulty when we downloaded the
document and now I'm realizing it
doesn't have page numbers on it that's a
real pain yeah yeah no and then I I know
there was a lot I've received several
emails about the community cats there
was a lot of dialogue on next door and
other other places around Community cats
and what we have currently and what um
you are suggesting can you just very
quickly go over or send it to me to
understand what you're wanting I mean
from allowing people to have Community
cats specifically in their their
property and manage it um specifically
to I'm just unclear about that well
there was um I'm sorry Mr Mayor U mayor
approach
him
there was the issue with the county and
the two mile rule at the
river um that we engaged then with Gino
and Mary Lou and I think we've reached
consensus the other issue um and this
actually let's say that I'm I'm a
homeowner and my backyard backs up to an
unchannelized
Royal but it's I own that property that
you cannot release that animal within
150 ft of that Ro Royo and as a property
owner do I not have a right to release
the cat on my property now where that
cat goes and we've talked about this um
where that cat goes I really can't
control but as a property owner I have a
right to release that cat on my property
that was the other issue on community
cats okay but what about in the inner
city because we have a lot of problems
in like district one for instance in
fact I have an issue with cats that
roaming my yard because one of I think
the woman is doing community cat right
um work um and also where the cats have
had kittens and we're experiencing all
the things you just spoke of right so
what is what are you what are you saying
for that specific area and it's a
nuisance to me and to many of our
neighborhoods right um is is it
continuing to manage the way we're
managing today by um trapping them
taking them getting the TNR right
releasing them back to the area and then
offering folks deterrence yes is that
what you're ask what you're saying is to
continue that way yes okay but if I
could add
okay I always have some two cents to add
in the way that we're doing TNR is is
not the optimum way to do TNR and
councilor Flor as you may remember when
I came on the task force and I said what
is our
goal and then we talked about don't roll
this out to the whole
city pick a hot spot go in there trap
neuter return and control that
population so that you don't keep having
the
kittens we know that when you go in
there and trap and kill other their cats
will just move in and they'll have
kittens so what we've effectively done
and I'm I mean I'm I'm grateful for TNR
I don't get me
wrong is we're scattering all over the
city and we're not having the Maximum
Impact that we could have come into your
area and I don't know if you're around
Young Park I got a call about a year ago
and they said all the cats are be
beating up on this little one and it's
friendly and my grandma's holding it and
whatever and so I went down just south
of young Park and I got out of the car
and I went oh my
gosh and I observed the situation and
said no that they're not beating up on
her they're making kittens is what
they're
doing so instead of one homeowner in
that area you know doing TNR with six or
eight cats if we were able to and right
now we're more limited with one vet to
be able to go in there and just trap and
TNR 80 to 85% of them you'll see that
population stabilized very
quickly yeah so I I I agree with you I
think the way we're doing TNR currently
probably needs some tweaking um for sure
we also spoke of um I thought in the
orance specifically doing some sort of
evaluation um and with NMSU and I know
there had been some work asking a former
Professor who was doing some of that
research for us and the valuation
component um was asked and said we no
longer going to do that so I don't want
us to lose sight of that I think it's
really important that we're able to as
uh a board and councel give good
feedback about how this TNR program is
working or not and tweaking it and and
so I don't know if we've given thought
about how we're moving in that direction
Gino um have we given thought about
about that I'm sure we have but what is
it and what we're moving how are we
moving on that specific
area Mr Mayor uh Madame chair uh mayor
proam I'm sorry let me show you a map
that may answer a bit of those
questions so right now the city's
restriction is 150 ft from any
city-owned property daycare uh Public
School uh hospital and such
so what you see here in the green is the
current 150 ft barrier and again this is
taken from like I'm just going to say
10,000 feet we can always zoom in on it
what the consensus is right now is to
move that barrier or that restricted
level back out to 500 feet and I will
show you what that looks
like if we are looking at 500
feet now again at 10,000 ft it looks
like the whole entire city is covered
and there's not very many areas that you
can um can you into the mic that you can
release uh Community cats into but let's
now move move or zoom
in let me Mark it with the
streets thank
you and zoom out a little a little bit
more it it takes it a minute for it to
populate there we
go so if we look at this area right here
I'm going to zoom in on it a little
bit so we get a better
view so this is the benav
center um if we zoom out so obviously
we're gonna keep or
restrict the release of community cats
within the current as green but we've
come to a compromise and pushed that
number out to 500 which is the
orange now as we zoom out it allows for
Community cats to be
released anywhere within Second Street
um
Wilson man my glasses are I need to get
an
adjustment uh second third fourth
um
how so it actually would allow for
Community cats to be released within any
part of these neighborhoods staying away
from the benav
center now we zoom out
again
as we were working with GIS on
developing this map if you could see
where my cursor is right here this is
another city
park that would uh
restrict the releasing of these
cats if there's a particular address
that anybody would like for me to go to
Just J we're probably I want to
apologize to staff because I tried to
get you all done by noon so that you all
could have something to eat before our
one o'clock meeting so we can kind of
step it up a little bit Council doesn't
have to eat but staff needs to so I'm
good right there mayor if if there's no
questions about the map I appreciate
that I just want to I just want to be
clear about what you're proposing as in
this particular SE section um because I
do get probably most concerns about the
community cats um specifically in under
Imp in impoverished communities right
where you're allowing for the the TNR
right the cats to go back in and I get
and
not be given sufficient funding to be
able to offer deterence particularly to
to folks so it it is an issue and it's
something that I would like for you all
to focus on and work towards and then
I'll just let the public know and we're
really excited about Clint has had a
vision about forming a friends um group
to the center and it looks like we're
closer to to doing that and I think that
just and for Council who is
unfamiliar um this would be um a 501c3
that could help with a number of these
issues and I'm I think I think it it it
we should really move on that and I know
Clint is is doing that and I appreciate
that so um with that I'll turn it back
over to you Mary thank you thanks let me
just close this out uh and let me see if
I can get consensus with my colleagues
so I'm just going to take take it for
granted that when you call it the dream
ordinance was that yours
Kathy what is the dream ordinance is
that what you just yes or no Mr Mayor
city council that was Clint's
terminology that he attached to it
that's okay okay so how about if we do
this we'll call it Gino's ordinance and
the dream ordinance right and if you can
bring back for our next work
session say for example Gino how about
you put in red lettering what it is that
you have concerns about in the dream
ordinance right and then if there's
something that's not in there maybe you
can add it with a different color I
don't care blue or orange whatever and
then that would be something for us to
come back to at least go from there to
discuss um a couple things that just
popped up in mind as far as funding two
things one is is uh businesses always
like to be recognized if there is a way
that if you could do like say a a prawn
Sil silver gold Platinum say 2550 75 100
um
um what do you call it the operations
for and once and they don't have to do
all at once but once there you go and
once they get to that certain number
then they get a some type of an award
and then once they get the Platinum
we'll put a little those little bricks
on the somewhere in the animal services
so that they can work they can work okay
they can work toward yeah they can work
toward that something to think about
just something think about and or
cannabis money can be used for that too
because there's it's totally un it's
totally unencumbered so if that if if
that's okay with my colleagues for for
you to work on that to bring that back
that at least we can start from there
for that from that discussion and then
move forward good all right all right
sounds good okay well let's go ahead and
call for to adjourn so move by FLOTUS
second beta motion made by councelor
FLOTUS second by councelor Beta that we
adjourn
Christine this is on the motion to
adjourn the work session councelor B yes
councelor Graham yes councelor benl yes
councelor cran yes councelor fletus yes
councelor Ganda yes mayor yes okay we're
adjourned it's 1222 p.m. thank you and
if it's that easy we may be able to do
it in 30 days I don't know if you guys
can get it done what do you
think