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[Music]
you're on
good afternoon
everyone good afternoon thank thank you
for joining us today for our city
council meeting today's August 5th 2024
if you'd all please uh stand and join me
in a moment of silence for our brave men
and women of the military and for our
police and fire that protect us 247
365 councelor McClure if you'll lead us
in the Pledge of
Allegiance Al
of the United States of America to the
for it stands one nation God indivisible
liy and justice for
all yes
we'll have a presentation at this time
uh the recognition of the Centennial
High Centennial High softball uh girls
team they were state champs uh we can
have them come up
mayor you have it like ESPN you got the
backdrop
testing okay Centennial High School won
the 5A State title in Albuquerque this
is the O this is the only second State
title for the Hawks softball in school
history they finished the season 31 and
three and 13-2 in District play also
during the regular season they went 4-0
and W won the southern Mexico
Invitational where 16 high school teams
around New Mexico participated they beat
bin Silver City Oregon Mountain and Aria
high schools they went s- one in the
nmaa state tournament they entered as
the number one number three seed and
beat number 14 Sandia High School round
one in Los cruus on May 10th beat number
six seed carlbad Thursday May 16th and
on Friday May 17th they lost to number
two seed laqua and had to battle their
way back through the losers bracket they
began by beating number 13 Seed Oregon
Mountain number seven seed Mayfield and
then number two seed laqua to end a long
day on Saturday May 18th at lobal
softball field they beat number one seed
Alam mordo High School in back-to-back
games to win the title Senor santel
Rodriguez threw a no hitter in the first
championship game to force the if game
they won the if game six to5 on the last
inning double play line out to Capri
Wheezy borella to Stevie Jimenez they
have some girls committed to college
santel Rodriguez to NM State Capri
Barella to UNM Kayla Hernandez to Odessa
College and Jaden huon to Western New
Mexico so far they had seven total
seniors on the team Mr
X the head coach also won a State title
in 2016 with onate high school and they
were 6A and Centennial High School also
won was 5A so congratulations very much
to Centennial High schol
all right I'm uh coach
X oh I'm
sorry our girls work very hard you guys
they see them all I never see them this
clean okay cuz we got them running we
got them sliding we got them they're
full of dirt all the time and these
girls work super duper hard I wish you
guys would come out and see them catch
any Athletic program any of them
especially the girls because we get
bashed so much but these girls work
super hard for the first month of
practice they never saw a ball their
glove their bat because we had them
running for the sole reason when we got
to the situation when we lost that game
we played four games back to back the
more games we played the stronger they
got that's because all that conditioning
stuff and these girls could play they
could play thank you guys
[Applause]
con
that's awesome again congratulations and
they promis to repeat so good
luck next we have jobs of the week uh
Sarah
rainy good afternoon everyone my name is
Sarah rainy I am the One-Stop
coordinator for the southwest region of
the New Mexico work Workforce Connection
for our jobs of the week we have a
police services specialist for the city
of Los Cruses the position starts at
1676 an hour the posting closes on the
19th of August we also have a heavy
equipment operator for locating and
mapping for the city that position
starts at 20 28 an hour and the posting
closes on the 19th for Whit Sands
Missile Range we have an HVAC technician
that starts at 2850 an hour and the
posting closes in
September we have a pet boys um position
the automotive technicians the position
starts at 29,000 and the posting closes
on the 25th of August for La NOA C Cafe
we have a line cook we also have a
safety specialist at NMSU the College of
Engineering that position starts at
53,000 and the posting closes on the
28th of
August and just to update everybody we
have our monthly Community of Hope job
Readiness that's where we go we go out
to the Community of Hope and we spend um
three to four hours out there depending
on what we're scheduled um doing job
writing skills we do the resume writing
interview practices Mo you know the mock
interview um and set them up with jobs
that are our local jobs and just prepare
them to change jobs anything that
they're needing also for career
Essentials we have a couple of those
coming up for Los crues um we also have
them in Anthony and demine and Silver
City actually across the region and the
career Essentials are open to everybody
it's a one-on-one employment assistance
including again same thing that we try
to do at the job writing is for
Community of Hope we do the job
referrals um the program referrals mock
interviews resume writing all of it so
if you guys are anybody's needing any
more information you can go check us out
on our all of our social medias and then
on our um website at employ nm.com and
you guys can find any information there
or come to our Alam
office and that is it for this week
thank thank
you all right thank you Sarah yes next
we have pets of the week Amy
defix hello everyone I'm Amy def Felix
one of the rescue coordinators for the
Animal Services Center for the Miss
Valley and of course I always pick and
present the pets of the week we'll go
ahead and start off with our cat of the
week this week she is Arya her number is
77400 and she says I may seem a bit shy
in new situations but give me a little
time and you'll find them as sweet as
can be I enjoy quiet afternoons in the
gentle hum of life around me I'm a bit
I'm a bit of a home buddy finding
comfort and familiar surroundings I'm
not one for Grand Adventures but I do
love a good cuddle session adopting me
means getting a friend who will cherish
your company and offer a comforting
presence in your life let's create a
peaceful Haven together and then our dog
of the week is Adeline her number is
69306 and she says hello I'm Adeline I'm
full of energy and love to play I'm not
just all fun in games though I've got a
sweet side too I love to cuddle up close
when it's time to rest I'm always ready
to give out kisses to anyone who needs
one I'm looking for a forever home where
I can share my playful energy and
sweetness if you're looking for a loyal
friend who will always be there to cheer
you up and make you smile I'm your
girl and then adoption events going on
we will be at Tractor Supply this
Saturday August 10th we'll be there from
9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. in case you need
the address it is 1440 West Picacho and
other events starting Saturday August
10th and going until September 10th we
are going to be participating in the
National clear the shelters again um and
this for these like like month long from
August to September 10th all of our
adoptions are only going to be $50 and
we'll um have a couple of we'll try to
do a lot of offside events and kind of
celebrate getting as many of our loving
uh cats and dogs into their forever
homes and then if you need any website
links our general website is ascmv org
and then we're all over social media
Facebook Instagram and Tik Tok is where
we'll post some upcoming events and
highlight some special animals and then
YouTube and Spotify and apple podcasts
is where we upload episodes of our
podcast Tales from the P
side and that is all I have thank
you thank you
Amy next we have a presentation by MDA
uh Mia Valley Regional dispatch Jennifer
G
good afternoon mayor city manager
counselors um I just wanted to provide a
little update regarding what some of the
new occurrences that are taking place at
M Valley Regional dispatch which is of
course the 911 Center here in doniana
County so if you for those of you that
are not aware we are the Consolidated
Dispatch Center that serves all of
doniana County unrepresented I'm sorry
unincorporated areas we also the city of
Los Cruses Sunland Park msia Hatch and
Anthony so in 2023 mvda received over
351,000 phone
calls of those 351,000 phone calls to uh
328,000 required incidences for dispatch
for law enforcement fire or EMS the
reason I want to bring this up is you'll
notice that approximately 81% of those
of those requests were for law
enforcement dispatches
so in response to the extreme amount of
calls that come into our Center one of
the things that we're looking at doing
that we have now implemented as of last
month is non-emergency online reporting
so if someone has an incident that does
not require immediate uh lights and
Sirens to um to attend to their need we
can do an online reporting system
currently that is located at our website
at mvrda
dog this is what the the picture is
going to look like for the link for when
you're going to do your non your
non-emergency online reporting what it
will do is initially bring up your
street address this is going to bring up
where you currently are so it's going to
geoc code based upon your location
currently you have the right at this
point to go ahead and change that
address so say for instance you are at
work but you need to report something
that happened at your home then it's
best to go ahead and change that street
address um to the address of service
required then in the middle of the page
it's going to ask for what type of
assistance you're looking for So
currently we are utilizing three options
you can choose uh
police um sorry police codes or animal
control based upon one of those
selections then you're going to have
another drop- down screen that's going
to ask what kind of service you're
looking for and we'll talk about that in
just one moment you also have the option
to ask to State how you want to be
responded to would you like to have an
officer respond to you at that address
are you okay with a phone call or are
you just wanting to report and you're
not requiring um somebody to come
contact back to you then we're going to
ask that you put any additional comments
that you possibly can this allows our
staff our 911 dispatchers and call
takers to input the information
correctly for service so the more
information you can provide the better
so that we can provide a better service
for you so you may want to know well
what kind of things can I report so
let's say for instance you have an auto
theft that is not currently in progress
maybe something that took place while
you were sound asleep in your bed the
night before then that has a great
opportunity to do a non-emergency report
if you have civil matters that are not
currently taking place uh forgery or
fraud illegal dumping um or if you are
also wanting to do followup on a call
that was previously in place so you've
already spoken with an officer and you
just need to have that officer reach
back to you if we're looking for animal
control those are going to be animal in
custody uh again a followup to a
previous case or maybe the Animal
control officer left a card at door and
you need to respond back to that or if
there's a straight animal in your area
if we're looking for codes often times
the ones that we're receiving currently
are regarding weed control or an
abandoned vehicle or other nuisance
concerns so once you finish that
information here in the center you have
the right to go ahead and include your
contact information this is going to
ensure that we are able to contact you
and do any followup if necessary before
we send out uh resources you're going to
click I'm not a robot and then once that
is then you're going to receive a
confirmation code the confirmation code
is just going to be something that's
going to help us to be able to track
that for you so people may ask why call
why do the online reporting rather than
calling in so as I stated we have
351,000 phone calls that come into our
agency on an annual basis those calls
are both emergency and Non-Emergency and
we have the same number of Staff
regardless whether it's an emergency or
non-emergency so the more calls that we
can handle via the online reporting
system will free up those phone lines
for those emergency calls so yes every
call is extremely important and will be
handled in the normal course of business
however we would like to have the
availability for those emergency calls
for instance a CPR in progress to reach
the priority line first so that is where
we're going with our non-emergency
reporting it is currently active we are
currently receiving phone calls that are
coming or online reporting that are
coming in on a daily basis and so I just
want to encourage the community to
utilize the resource further
all right Jennifer thank you thank you
for the for the update the information
and I know in the future uh the jpa The
Joint power agreements can come up to a
work session and give an update so we
look forward to that and see how this is
working how it's been implemented and
the results thank you thank you and
mayor if I may say one more thing just a
reminder that we are also still hiring
for 911 call takers we have a posting
that closes Wednesday evening at
midnight so make sure to get your
application in right away um then you
will hear from me personally Thursday so
we can continue the process and for
those that are going to National Night
Out on Tuesday come and stop by our
booth thank you thank you
[Applause]
Jennifer next we have the presentation
of the entrance conference by Chris
Gardner good afternoon mayor and city
council my name my name is Josie trino
I'm the controller for the city of Las
Cruses uh today I'm here to present our
external auditor Chris Garner he will be
working on our fy2 24
audit thank you mayor and
Council okay as Josie said my name is
Chris Garner I am the partner in charge
of the city of Las cruus audit and what
I have here is a brief presentation to
go over the audit requirements that
Auditors are charged with making at the
initial at the beginning of each
audit the first thing we're supposed to
talk about is audit timing we actually
have already gotten started last month
we're here on site right now continuing
the planning phase of the audit some of
it will happen remotely um but we have
been on site the last couple of weeks
what we try to get done during this
planning phase is we look at at your
internal controls we actually pick
samples and start testing those internal
controls we we also look at state
auditor compliance the state auditor um
a lot of you have heard in the past you
know there's about 24 items that the
state auditor has us potentially look at
things like procurement travel and pum
so that is getting accomplished right
now as we do the planning phase also
because the city spends more than
750,000 of Federal grant funds you're
required to have what's called a single
audit it's a compliance audit for the
federal government we are in the
planning phase of that particular
portion of the audit too based upon our
testing of internal controls our
interviews we put everything together
and we come up with a risk assessment
and that's how we develop our audit plan
that we'll be doing later this fall so
all that's going on right now field work
final field work will happen in October
we have uh again we'll be doing some
remote um and some on-site testing we
will finish the comp the completion of
the single audit that Federal grant
expense testing and then we'll test the
year end balances for
uh your trial from your trial balance in
order to give our Auditors
opinion financial statements will be
submitted to the state auditor by
December 1st because the city does go
after the awards from gfoa your
deadlines earlier than most cities most
cities is are due December 15th but
because you go after the award you are
due December 1st so at some point mid to
late December I'm sorry late November
we'll be doing an exit conference and
then by December 1st your audit will be
submitted to the New Mexico state
auditor the next required communication
is to talk about responsibilities and
you've all actually heard this we have
to talk about it at the entrance we talk
about it at the exit and then we talk
about it at the presentation so um this
is something we talk about quite a bit
but what we were hired to do as your
Auditors is to express an opinion on
your financial statements that R the top
box to the right we are giving what's
called reasonable assurance we look at
internal controls we look at statistical
samples but we're definitely not testing
every transaction so there could be
errors in the financial statements but
those errors are not going to be big
enough to change the opinion of the
readers of the financial statements so
if you were to give your financial
statements to a banker those errors are
not going to be big enough for the
banker to have a different opinion on
your financial status so that's what we
as Auditors are responsible for doing
under regular auditing standards in New
Mexico the the state auditor wants us to
do what we call a Yellow Book audit so
every audit in our state has to conform
with a yellow book procedures which is
also known as Government auditing
standards in a regular audit for
significant Cycles like cash
dispersements all we have to do to meet
those standards is just take one
transaction and test it and we're done
we've met well with a yellow book audit
the state auditor wants us to actually
pick samples so we in order to complete
the state a or the yellow book audit we
have to pick examples of internal
controls and test those and so again
that's a part a portion of the audit
that we're doing right now as you can
see in the left side though we're not
testing enough transactions to give an
opinion all we're doing there is we're
spelling out in that report what we've
tested or how we've tested above regular
auditing standards and then to the right
we have to communicate what's called
significant matters in New Mexico the
state auditor actually takes that
threshold from the yellow book standards
and takes it down to the ground level if
we have any exceptions in our state
based upon the state audit rule they
have to be included as findings in your
audit report so a little bit more
stringent and then there's again more
testing of transactions that the state
aitor requires us to do in our
state your responsibility so management
is responsible for in essence giving us
a trial balance so Financial numbers
that are in accordance with the
standards that we have to follow it's a
little bit harder in our state because
you required to report to DFA on a
different methodology than we as
Auditors come in and have to audit so
there's some journal entries that have
to happen every audit season at the end
of the year but it is your
responsibilities to give us a trial
balance that is in accordance with the
standards that we have to follow this
includes making sure that you have good
internal controls established and that
management is performing their correct
functions and that you've made all the
adjustments to get the numbers correct
so all of that is the city's
responsibilities um during the audit
process scope of the audit we have not
only the city of Las cruus but we have
one component unit which is South
Central solid waste and then we have a
blended component unit with a downtown
tid and then we have three um Animal
Service Center of msia Valley msia
Valley Regional dispatch Authority and
Metro narcotics that are joint Powers
agreements so our audit will include
internal controls State a compliance and
everything over all five of these
entities I'm sorry all six as we go go
through our audit process they will all
be included in our audit
work
communication as we go through the audit
process in the past we've given status
updates that could potentially be given
to counselors we just need you to know
that those do need to remain
confidential nobody can talk about any
of the audit process publicly until it
has been accepted and approved by the
New Mexico state auditor so if you
happen to get an update of potential
findings potential issues or anything
that's going on dur during the audit
process please keep that confidential it
can result in an audit
finding audit rule changes really there
were not very many changes this year
there were a lot of clarifications to um
different terms used throughout the rule
the big one that's going to affect the
city's audit is opioid funds so the city
has received opioid funds we have to
test to make sure that you're spending
those in compliance with the settlement
agreements and so that will be a part of
our testing that we do this
year the last section is I'm going to
bring up some topics where this is not
the right form to talk about but I at
least want to get it in front of council
because if you have any concerns or any
questions please contact us Josie has my
contact information I think a lot of you
have had my emails over the years it has
my cell phone on there please let me
know and I will do the best to answer
any questions that you might have have
um we just want to make sure that
everybody knows that if you do approach
us or give us a call that information
will remain confidential and will only
be used in developing our audit plan and
the steps that we're going to complete
as we do our audit
process the items that I would like to
be made aware of if you have any
knowledge of any of this are there
material related party transactions if
you know of any please let us know um if
there are any concerns of fraud whether
you suspect it or you know something
happened please let us know what those
concerns are if you're aware of any
special audits that happened throughout
the year again we need to be M made
aware of those transactions or those
Audits and then lastly if there's any
type of transaction that you're maybe
think warrants a little bit extra
attention please contact us we'll take
those into consideration as we develop
our audit plan so again Josie can get a
hold of us so please um feel free to
give us a com contact if you have any of
these concerns or any
questions with that open up to any
questions no um no we weren't going to
do questions we're not going to do
questions at this time it's just uh the
information that you were providing us
if we do we'll get what you'll see and
reach out to you okay thank you thank
you
next on the agenda is a conflict of
interest uh does any member of the city
council city manager any member of the
city staff have any known conflict of
interest with any item on the
agenda none none Graham none none
n okay thank you next is public
participation and uh seeing the large
crowd and the information received is uh
there's numerous people that want to
speak uh want again remind you that um
no pending litigation or no items that
are on the non-consent and again always
be respectful and polite speak into the
microphone and state your name and we're
going to allow two minutes uh for public
participation Katrina will be right
there in the center wave of hand
Katrina and uh she'll be ushering you
down she'll go row by row
good
afternoon my name is Dave Matson I'm a
retired police officer and I currently
employed as on staff at Red Hot golf
course bill it's nice to see you
again as most of you are aware on Sunday
February 11th of this year While most of
us were home watching the Super Bowl we
lost a police officer who was shot and
killed in the line of
duty he left left two children a
wife I attended his funeral and there
was over 500 officers from around the
nation that attended it was very
emotional on my staff at Red Hawk I've
got 21 men that work for me seven of
them are retired law
enforcement and we got together one day
and we said we have to do
something so what we've
done is we we are doing a golf
tournament in off Hernandez name on
October
4th and all the proceeds from that
tournament will go to his children and
his
wife and I can tell you right
now I haven't really pushed this the
last couple months but we've got close
to
$113,000 already
donated sis Barrow is giving us a car
for the par three home and one for
nothing they are always also Furnishing
golf clubs and trips for the other part
3es Jeff FAS of able signs is doing all
of our advertising for
us our sponsors for the tournament are
the Las Cruses police officer
Association and Marcy Dickerson from
Revolution
120 I have a stack of Flyers that I'd
like to drop off over here and pass
around if you have any questions about
it okay sir thank you thank you for your
time we're just going to cut everybody
at two minutes today we have a lot of
people but thank you for what you're
doing I appreciate it okay thank you
Robert Lee but b b l
r I'm G good news
be and going to take to the
script greetings illustrious Mar
gifts is a Divine Meritor honor to be
here may I address your
Council yes
yes I'm not here to say in recommend
anyone for district
one I'm not here to say anything
negative about the to the female
counselor representing visit retirement
home I'm not going to be satisfied until
the foundation retirement home is ex is
on Jesus now my
body my second key to the city of Theus
is going directly to the benan museum it
will be safe
there we really celebrating at
University Community Church Church of
Jesus Christ Church of Christ the reason
my here is to tell you
all now now there is going to be another
wedding in your beautiful
city everyone willing for the city and
the county will be
invited good day mayor city counselor
males and females police fire department
and of course staff thank you very much
wonderfully and everyone
United po United States Postal stand
will go down 13
cents thank you all Mark Henrik rby is
in trouble thank
[Applause]
you I uh don't have time to wait so I
have to do it now uh good afternoon
mayor and members of council um I just
wanted to come and address Israel Chavez
as many of you know thank you Brad um
I'm an attorney in this community I've
prosecuted cases in this community I've
defended felonies and uh misdem meters
in this community I have family uh who
have mental health and uh substance
abuse issues and I grew up here um I
don't think anyone on Council can say
all of those things and so I hope that
you'll listen when I say Prosecuting
people for having
these shopping carts this idea is not
only myopic it's just bad the city has
neglected its duties as it relates to
the hospital and I get it you go to the
little board meetings but you don't do
enough to hold that board accountable
the city hasn't held the missia Valley
Housing Authority accountable up until
recently when I helped get my mom on the
board and we got some new PE new faces
but the city now wants to do something
that punishes the folks who struggle and
I want to remind us that we are closer
all of us in this room
with the exception of maybe one or two
that I don't know are closer to all of
these people who are struggling than the
billionaires out there who are taking
advantage of our community every time a
billionaire uh a billion dollar company
comes to Los cruus we roll out the red
carpet what about the services that
currently don't exist the money that the
city is trying to waste in its perhaps
misunderstanding of the legal process in
trying to develop a parallel system to
what already exists why wasn't the city
a good partner in all of the the
resources that we needed we had a county
hospital and the city sold it up the
river and I understand not all of you
were on the board except for maybe Mr
matis but to take this strategy this
route is uncreative it's not going to
solve problems all it's going to do is
punish members of my community I have to
go to Municipal Court right after this
to represent somebody who struggles with
mental health I Venture that none of you
have ever done that before but maybe you
should sit in and see how hard it is do
better
[Applause]
please good afternoon mayor city manager
city council members and police chief
story I'm Beverly Hogan District 5 I am
very grateful to all of you for still
permitting public
participation at the beginning of these
meetings unlike many Marxist
communist-led city councils across the
country that have done public comment at
the end of the meetings if at
all it is however disappointing that you
placed what I think are two of the most
important items that the majority of the
citizens here today and I think the
police chief are concerned about you
placed them at number
nine really I mean most likely all of
you have already decided how you're
going to vote on number nine the agenda
that says in 7.3 construction work
between the hours of 600 p.m. and 7:
a.m. for concrete pouring associated
with the skate park at 151 North Wana
street is that what the majority of the
citizens are here for I would just ask
you to please try to take take the Pulse
of the
community understand that over 500 plus
citizens
attended the town hall meeting with our
governor because we are concerned about
crime we are embarrassed and Afraid in
our own City and it wasn't like that in
2015 when I moved here so again I just
ask you to think about that it just
seems logical to me to put it near the
beginning because many of these people
may not be able to wait the whole time
thank you
[Applause]
my name is Donna Striker um I just want
to remind you of something and you all
signed this it's called the oath of
office each one of you is responsible
for this oath I will support the
Constitution of the United States and
the Constitution and laws of the state
of New Mexico Co and the ordinances of
the city of lusus and that I will
faithfully and IM partially me say that
word again because what I'm seeing is
not impartial I will faithfully and
impartially discharge the duties of the
city counselor to the best of my ability
could you please as counselors
please could you please remember your
oath thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon council members mayor my
name is Liz Rodriguez Johnson and I'm I
would just like to add to what Mr uh
Israel Chavez said which is
that incarcerating people who have
mental health substance abuse issues is
not the answer I heard it said in the
last meeting that that's something
that's going to be on the agenda he he
uh had was granted permission to speak
early because he had to go to court okay
but uh everyone will have to wait if you
want to speak on that agenda item okay
okay thank
you Mr Mayor a point of um clarification
if we want to speak on the shopping cart
earns we cannot speak now is that
correct that's correct it's a
non-consent item so when it comes up for
discussion I'm going to open it up for
public discussion at that
time yeah I stated we had public
participation and any litigation or
nonconsent items were not discussed so
anything that's on the
non-consent we we'll open it up for
discussion after the presentations thank
you can
I
yes well you have to come up
and everything is being pushed off
pushed off to ma'am you have to state
your name I'm sorry you have two minutes
if you want to speak your two minutes or
you just one okay I'm Carolyn Clifton
and I'm a resident here in Los crues for
27 years and out of that 27
years the last 10 of it has been a
disgrace to the
city I have to use a Taser if I have to
go anywhere in the
city and I am really disappointed with
our city council
for what they're
doing my district person is district one
Cassie
and I've been a a bus driver here for 27
years in this
town I've been a mother to two boys one
a fireman now a police officer
and it's not right to hear my son
telling me Oh we can't do this and we
can't do
that you guys you city council people
have got to step up and do your job
[Applause]
and and just for clarification and the
public participation this is your
opportunity you have two minutes to
speak it's not an open discussion it's
not to get any answers from the mayor
and Council we're not here to debate
we're not here to get into any
discussions this is your time to speak
and uh we allow you those two minutes
for that thank
you good afternoon mayor council my name
is Michael
frames I want to come up here and talk
for a little bit about why I've been so
passionate about trying to support our
Police Department uh with everything
that I've been through I thought it
would be nice for you to hear what I've
gone
through January of
2023 unfortunately I lost a teammate and
a very good friend from a convicted
felon that was breaking into a car and
he tried to stop him and unfortunately
was shot and
killed fast forward February of 2024
which I believe is a catalyst officer
Hernandez was stabbed brutally and one
of her teammates once again was a person
who shot and killed him thank God
nothing happened to him that happened to
one of our previous
teammates going on the business side of
things I've lost over
$100,000 in damage
theft criminal activity since
2020 it's hard running a business and we
devote our
time it's very hard to see where our
community has gone and where it's going
a lot of times we blame what's happened
up at the state that we don't
have ability to change here in Los cruus
but today we do and I hope to see you
all vote for a change later
today
lastly just this last week we've lost so
many people that want to build homes
with us that decide not to move here to
Los crusis I sent an
email regarding somebody that told me
they didn't want to move to Los Cruses
because of the crime and violence and
lastly I want to publicly thank Mr matis
you responded to my email and actually
called and had a 30-minute conversation
with me it's much appreciated thank you
sir thank
[Applause]
you hello my my name is Troy tutor and
uh I'm a pastor here in town and uh I
just want to let you know about how
crime is impacting the church up on
Highway 70 off of Sona Ranch we've been
broken into about six times now tens of
thousands of dollars and lost and damage
our vehicles have been
vandalized they've stolen the cic
converters twice off of our vans they
punched holes in the gas tank of the
Vans and drain the gas
out um they broke broke into my
off-campus office twice and I'm just
talking about in the last couple of
years the last few months really and so
even up on Sonoma
Ranch where you think it would be not so
bad Prime is really bad and so you guys
really do need to support the police and
uphold the law in our city
[Applause]
hello Council I'm Susan Greenwall Cabo
executive director of downtown Las
Cruz's partnership um in a slightly
different tone I would like to say thank
you especially to counselor Karan um my
interns uh spoke in front of you our
last city council meeting they were so
excited they did such a good job
um that day councelor Karan um emailed
one of my interns and asked if she would
be on the parks and rec board um she
could not contain her excitement and
enthusiasm she probably made like four
calls in a row telling people that she
was you know going to be going to get
this opportunity to participate in this
with the city um also that week Chris
favor called me and said if she can't
work with the parks and W board if that
just isn't going to work for her I will
find a place for her to be able to work
with the city and some capacity so I
really really want to thank you guys uh
for listening to them responding to them
for staff for doing the same thing and
to our audience who were so abundantly
kind and receptive um to them when they
spoke I told them no one has ever taken
my comment and made other comments about
it you guys really um really spoke to
people they also told me they were
really excited that the mayor gave them
a thumbs up and said good job so thank
you
[Applause]
good afternoon thanks for the
opportunity to make comment um my name
is Jim Hurst uh city council Mr
Mayor uh Thursday May 2nd this year was
National Day of
Prayer
um at noon that day an assembly was held
in front of this building next to the
main entrance near the flag poles it was
a religious
service it was SEC it was a secretan
event put on by conservative Evangelical
Christians who have a history of
homophobic
pronouncements in attendance were the
mayor the police chief the chair of the
Republican party of Dona County the
chair of the ccia and about 30 or 40
others the mayor was in a suit and the
police chief was in full uniform from
addressing the meeting after the meeting
I made several
inquiries did the meeting have a permit
who issued it who was it issued to was
the mayor speaking as the mayor or in
private
capacity was the police chief speaking
in private capacity or public
capacity after several inquiries I was
told it was a private meeting the mayor
and the police chief were speaking in
their own private capacity no permit was
ISS issued no record was kept no
documents are available about this
meeting this appears to be a dishonest
answer it was not really a private
meeting you can't call it a private
meeting if members of the general public
are welcome to attend an honest answer
would have been City officials have
allowed a religious service on City Hall
grounds and they don't need anyone's
approval to do so I suspect the mayor
labeled it a private meeting because he
knows the issues of Separation church
and state that this event
involves I have yet to find out what the
rules were for either private or public
or religious meetings on City Hall
grounds and I have the impression that
there are none thank you very much
mayor council ju Garcia the governor's
recent Town Hall was an eyeopener even
she the state democratic party's leader
based stunning backlash from her own
party for daring to speak the truth
about our officials blatant disregard
for Public Safety make no mistake this
transcends party lines the real culprit
is the progressive strangle hold on our
state so suffocating they'll turn on
their own the same officials who
attempted to silence the governor also
turned a deaf ear to the victims we
brought
forward it took the tragic murder of a
police officer to bring us to this vote
two counselors had the
audacity audacity to label the
governor's visit a distraction in their
Manifesto a distraction from what the
progressive own failure to engage with
the very people they're supposed to
represent the governor's call for Action
is suddenly quote right-wing because it
challenges their failed policies the
governor's warnings about the dangers of
enabling hopelessness have fallen un
willfully deaf ears and I quote we're
Gathering evidence that the homeless are
being sent here potentially for drug
trafficking or Worse does the desert
hope ring any
bells and I continue with the quote with
permissive homelessness you cannot be
held accountable can engage in retail
theft pen handling does this two sound
familiar we're seeing it every
day their Progressive upside down
priority is to cuddle criminals over
citizens today you have a chance to
change the approve these ordinances and
take a real step towards reclaiming our
City's safety anything less is a der
elction of Duty thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon my name is Adam NIS I'm
in United States St Marine honorably
discharged who swore an oath to uphold
the
Constitution these
new ordinances you're talking about
passing are a direct violation of that
you all s that swore that same concept
sir we we you can talk about it when
that item comes up for discussion
good afternoon my name is Paul Bryce and
I came up here to set the record
straight because a lot of things have
been being said about desert hope I live
at Desert hope and I've been there since
day
one in fact three years ago today was a
moveing day we went through some rough
times we sure have and but it's gotten
so much better now that I mean you I
invite anybody here at 10:00 to walk
through there and they will be
completely
safe I know there's been a lot of things
said negatively about it but you know
that it's not current anymore and it's
kind of unfair to keep jabbing at Desert
hope and who lives there
um everybody needs a chance and that's
what was given at the beginning of
desert hopes
and because they got a chance not every
everybody kept their chance and that's
how we wound up with the reputation that
we have now I really wish people would
look into it a little more look into it
today see that it's not the same as it
was before that's about all I have to
say
[Applause]
thanks good afternoon mayor city council
city manager staff in public my name is
Yol lez I am here on a respectful
respectable basis almost two months ago
mmcc Jo John Harris said many things
including these kinds of irresponsible
dispersions that are being passed in
this community there's no truth to these
none whatsoever CEO John Harris's
remarks equate to him calling me a liar
calling the patients who spoke up a liar
calling Gretchen morgenson a liar and
the complete investigative team of NBC a
liar I can tell you that I know for a
fact that Memorial Medical Center has
denied healthc care services so I want
you to equate that what I'm saying is
that CEO John Harris is a liar yes I
stand before you on record on video and
in public saying that John Harris is a
liar I publicly came before City County
and County Commissioners with many
disclosed record requests that are very
uh disgusting documents showed that in
2015 and 2016 Memorial Medical Center
deleted the services of outpatient
oncology and chemo services and
outpatient dialysis from their indent
care policy that was renamed chap if you
had listened to the DAC BC meeting on
June 11th you would have heard
commissioner Manny Sanchez repeatedly
and repeatedly asking Memorial Center
Medical Center why cancer why is cancer
singled out why cancer needs a separate
contract why cancer needs a separate
contract versus the existing contract
this led to CFO Loris Thomas stating so
my understanding is that in 2016 I
wasn't there there was a decision made
to remove the cancer Indigent care out
of the lease agreement and so that was
removed out the MMC CFO confirms the
atrocity of Cancer Care removal from
Memorial Medical Center's Indigent care
policy CEO John Harris states that they
do not deny or delay care an atrocious
lie CEO John Harris states that they
deliver care to all their neighbors
regardless of ability to play pay a
blatant Lie co John Harris states that
he works in close contact with the city
and county did any of you know that he
deleted cancer and dialysis from the MMC
Indigent policy minutes are can you
please give me just 10 seconds think we
have a lot of people that want to speak
today and we're cutting it close contact
is this a lie thank you Yolie and I do
hope 100% that you do get to see
Memorial and Life Point as coming in
here and doing a breach of contract and
you had the opportunity when they
I'm sorry right and I hope you see it
now breach of contract and get them
replaced thank you
[Applause]
hello my name is Danielle dollar I am a
uh global economic investment manager I
moved here in
2012 in 2012 we did not have the issues
that we are presenting now with Public
Safety Not only with business but with
also our children I'm also a current
basketball coach um since we've moved
here we have had multiple instances is
not only in our Sports community of
finding Naran on the baseball fields but
also um current recently at the farmers
market my 8-year-old had a metal dumball
a dumb bar bell thrown at his
head so all I ask is for investment
within the community that we take these
ordinances very
seriously and also complaints by the
community are not disregarded as
brainwashing and also ludicrous by city
council District
5 it's very very important for
Investments that come into this
community community that we are heard
thank
[Applause]
you thank you uh I'm actually speaking
for for a Community member who was not
able to attend today and she just sent
me her comment she wanted me to read to
you Mr Mayor and Council my name is mar
Soul Diaz and I'm a resident of District
3 I have much to say about the crime in
our city but today I want to speak to
you about how disappointed I am in the
behavior of a few City Representatives
that is Unbecoming of a representative
using social media to express negative
feelings about the citizens you
represent is distasteful and shows your
inability to represent this city you
should be ashamed to say you feel your
constituents are quote easily
manipulated and calling them quote rage
Farmers if you do not like the people
you represent step aside and allow
someone who has Pride for the people of
this city to represent them do better we
deserve it thank you
hello Council uh mayor and Council
trying to think what I'm going to do
with my whole two minutes here to speak
um I'm going to take a real different
Tack and say well when I moved here in
2016 I had a ma'am did I not say it yeah
we didn't hear your name I'm I didn't
say it did I I'm Patty Hartman and I'm a
resident um when I first came to Los
crues in 201 16 I had a horrible
experience with the mental health system
that violated my rights and pretty much
terrified me and has had lasting effects
the first thing I noticed here though in
town was how many people were being
killed by our police
department and I came I spoke about it
at city council several times and
nothing was ever done I am actually
going to give a compliment to Chief
story to say I have more trust in the
police department now than I ever did in
the past and I thank you for your
[Applause]
sincerity my name is George Pearson and
I'm president of the Alam Depot
neighborhood association this past
Saturday we had our quarterly meeting
and I'd like to share some of the topics
and concerns that were discussed at the
meeting we continue to monitor the
condition of the waa building that is
adjacent to Pioneer women's Park we
haven't heard of any actions on the
conditions of the building and want to
be informed on the status of the
building we did hear that the historic
preservation officer position is
currently vacant we hope that this job
vacancy will be addressed in short order
we also have concerns about Traffic
Safety in our neighborhood we understand
that La Academia Dolores wera is moving
to the Alay art campus this will
increase traffic in the neighborhood
there are no four-way stops on the
perimeters of the campus this is a
safety issue and promotes faster speeds
especially for vehicles that are cutting
through the neighborhood on streets that
are next to the campus without any stops
please let's add four-way stops now
instead of as a response to a serious
injury or fatal crash likely to involve
a student from one of the schools on the
campus I also want to announce that our
neighborhood association has created a
logo
we will we hope the logo will become a
plac making identifier we'll be looking
for help from the city and how the logo
can be used as at gateway locations and
in other ways to identify the
neighborhood our next quarterly meeting
is Saturday November 2nd at 11: o'clock
at J Paul Taylor Academy Mr Mayor the
neighborhood has asked if you would
attend so I'm inviting you to that
meeting and with my remaining time I'm
going to switch to my role as vice
president of v crusis and ask the city
council will adopt Vision zero as policy
so we can create a city with zero
traffic
fatalities and I have one copy of this
that I'll give to the clerk that you
guys can
[Applause]
pass okay that concludes a public
participation thank you all for your
participation next I'll read a closed
meeting statement the Los cruus city
council met in close session at 11:02
a.m. on July 15th the following members
were in attendance mayor Eric henriquez
counselor Cassie McClure counselor Becky
Graham counselor mayor protm Joanna Beno
counselor Becky Karan counselor Ivon
florus staff Barbara bomo Chris
favor Sonia Delgado JC B Brad Douglas
Eon tamop and Christina R Vera the
meeting adjourned at
11:44
a.m. uh the purpose of the meeting was
to discuss the threatened litigation
regarding parking lot 8 Griggs and water
which is closed pursuant to New Mexico
State Statute
1978 uh the discussion pending
litigation regarding Michael Hayes
versus city of Los
Cruses cause number d307 CV2 23 2167
which is closed pursuant to New Mexico
State Statute 1978 section 10151
H7 next we'll have the acceptance of the
agenda and I will need item one I mean
item
7.1 and
7.5
7.5 uh needs to be removed and it's
entirety and item 7.4 needs to be
removed as
discussed need a motion in a second I
move that we approve the agenda with the
modifications of 7.1 and 7.5 brought to
the full agenda for for discussion and
oh no 7.1 and 7.5 will be removed okay
and 7.4 will be brought up for
discussion okay that's what I move to we
approve
second this is on the motion to approve
the agenda as presented with removal of
items 7.1 and 7.5 in their entirety and
removal of 7.4 for discussion councelor
McClair yes councelor matis yes
councelor Graham yes councelor cran yes
councelor flutes yes councelor bomo yes
mayor yes
so we can begin with
7.4 good afternoon mayor city council
city manager we need a motion in a
second move to approve Corin second
Graham We Ready yes go ahead L okay
thank you once again uh good afternoon
mayor city council city manager member
of City staff and the members of the
public I'm Larry Nichols director of
Community
Development we have today to speak to
you about a a zoning change the zone
change is from a R4 which is a
multi-dwelling high-intensity and
limited retail office space and Chang to
a C3
designation of the conditions of the
property is about a 2 and a half acre uh
in size property is currently vacant and
undeveloped several properties are
planted to access the easements but
offer no shity of development for
efficient roadway uh Network to serve
the larger area
of North Rice Drive property has a 35 ft
uh easement Frontage barely uh complying
with the Ingress and egress requirement
for the
parcel continuing uh as a result of the
transportation system issues hum
development blueprint effort initiated
was completed and approved the property
with a is a Suburban Neighborhood Place
type is directly north of the regional
commercial Neighborhood Place type which
some of you will recognize is fairly
close some of those part
participating properties are Walmart in
that area
the current R for zoning helps to
address the missing metal housing and
portability issues addressed by the city
council as affordable and there's no
immediate plans to develop the
property now this is a depiction of the
zoning map we see that this is the
parcel that is in discussion and this
little bit right here is what was
mentioned about the uh 35 ft access off
a North r
to this property and to enable some of
the other properties south of that to be
developed in aerial view you can see
that it is undeveloped uh basically
vacant
property The Proposal is to rezone the
property from uh R4 to
C3 uh this is speculative in nature and
speaking to the person that has U
submitted the application for the reason
zoning at this time he doesn't have
anything specifically in mind as to what
the uh commercial zoning will will be
used for the appic indicated a need for
commercial zoning versus the existing
only zoning that is on site now because
they would be the the grading uh would
be expensive to uh make his property
available and affordable if you didn't
get a a zoning for a larger U intensity
use
no health safety or welfare issues have
been
identified the proposed zoning District
may be compatible to properties East of
that location but is not in alignment
with the Elevate Los cruus comprehensive
plan in terms of a neighborhood
placement type uh that being the
property is what we call a Suburban
Place placement type now it is basically
a lower U intensity and in character of
use
um but encourag the encourages a variety
of residential development at lower
moderate densities in lie of a higher
intensity commercial
development the regional may allow for
regional commercial Place type by that
we mean that the regional comprehensive
Place type um is a much higher intensity
uh being commercial it would allow items
such as big big Bo
development uh Walmarts other items that
would be have more impact for regional
visitation than local
neighborhood the um proposed zoning May
provide additional densities uh at a 10
dwelling unit per acre and a maximum of
a 40 dwelling per
acre sh zone change request is
substantially
speculative uh that was what we
mentioned just a moment ago that the
applicant has not specified what he
intends to place on on this property if
it is
zoned
C3 the blueprint effort only ex examine
Transportation issues for the area and
we mentioned about the uh access and
erress
consideration no lands use or boundary
changes uh were studied or for
recommendation the public notice was
sent out for our requirement for notice
uh was sent surrounding properties and
there was no input received either in
compliance or in U opposition or in
support of the
resum the planning zoning commission uh
met on September the
26th met their meeting a regular meeting
uh they voted to recommend denial with a
one to five uh vote one commissioner was
absent at that time of the vote the
findings properties south of the subsy
parcel do not have adequate Road Network
to service properties within the
boundary of of the surrounding
properties being discussed many of the
properties uh are planted with access
easements which provide legal access but
no shityy of development right away for
efficient connectivity meaning that that
35 ft access off of uh Northwest would
not provide access to these other
Parcels in Suburban Neighborhood Place
types is a low to moderate residential
for residential primarily that's the
intent of that place type for things
such as multif family dwellings
Apartments uh and maybe some very Light
commercial city of Las a consultant
hired to develop the blueprint
concentration on trans Transportation
issues and needs land not land use Place
types
lines further introduction to commercial
uses could diminish the Suburban
Neighborhood Place type purpose in lie
of the regional Place type proposed an
ongoing need for apartments a need to
address missing middle housing and
housing
affordability which exists now with the
R4
zoning The Proposal is subst
anally uh is not excuse me is not
substantially supported by Elevate Los
scu's comprehensive plan and does not
meet the purpose and intent of the 2001
L cr's zoning
code your options are to vote Yes and
I'm going to uh uh read these uh so that
we we have a good idea of U of how the
vote goes
a a yes vote would support the ordinance
and approve the zoning from uh
four presidential four to C3 a no vote
would affirm the Planning and Zoning
denial and then of course there is the
vote to amend and the vote to
table and with that presentation I stand
for questions that you may have
all right thank you Larry any questions
by Council Council Flores thank you
mayor and thank you uh Mr Nichols
[Music]
um this is an appeal by the owner of
that uh parcel of land is that correct
uh no ma'am it's not an appeal it's an
application for resoning excuse me who
resoning from who is the applicant
pardon me who is the
applicant who has applied for this
change in
zoning yes the applicant is um
John heck the property owner John heck
yes ma'am okay and um
they everything you've noted is uh
definitely not in the applicant's favor
seems like the Planning Commission uh
made a good decision in that uh it's
really not set up for I mean it there's
nothing indicating that it's doing
anything um and it seems like it would
be
um unnecessary to change it the zoning
it's always just curious about who the
applicant yes mayor Enriquez and
councelor Flores basically what the
Planning and Zoning commission um after
their discussion and and findings
determine that the resoning would would
not be a necessary action because
because it continues to address the
residential component that is probably
more needed for that area than the uh
furthering of uh a regional
high-intensity commercial yeah I agree
and um yeah and there's really um yeah
we need more hor well hopefully uh
affordable housing yes ma'am thank you
Mr Nichols thank you
mayor yes Council cor thank you thank
you um I in reading through all the
documents for
this so I I I have a speculative
question so indulge me for a
second um If This Were if we had
realized
today would this parcel be zoned to do
any of those
things I'm going to have uh Dr piss
answer your question because he's been
working with the realiz but um I'll have
him I think he could better explain how
realiz will address this particular type
of resoning and and again this is me
thinking about all of the implications
of this thing that we're doing on the
side and making sure I want understand
exactly what what all of that means uh
Tim pittz uh deputy director of
Community Development uh uh Mr Mayor uh
councelor Kuran we on on uh we are just
now getting the uh map the uh zoning map
prepared for the new uh realized Las
cruus um Land Development code so we
have not yet processed this property uh
but I believe this is going to to come
in is probably an nh2 Suburban so that's
a relatively high density of of uh
residential but it will also allow for
some types of commercial so that's
probably what this is going to come in
at we may make a decision to bump it up
a little to an NH3 but but what the we
feel the applicant in this case is
asking for is regional commercial and um
it's our it's staff's opinion on this
that that that's up very high
uh level of uh of development for an
area that currently has um as as Larry
has talked about the there there's
there's acres of land going back to the
aroyo that are available for
development but don't have proper
Road what what what um pnz what the
Planning and Zoning commission really
wanted to do was to to develop this
property in conjunction with all those
in the back so that there could be sort
of an orderly development of the land uh
and and we think that the uh the nh2
place type the neighborhood uh Suburban
would be the the appropriate level
probably okay but if I remember
correctly when we had this discussion
about this property before all of those
are owned by different people all every
one of those little Parcels is owned by
different folks right that is correct
okay
so um all of this to say my sense is
that this would be permissible in a
future version of zoning where we allow
people to make the highest and best use
of land given all of the conditions that
might might be there um it feels like
restrictive saying we're going
to try to push it toward residential
zoning when it was also mentioned that
like definitely within that capacity
there's there are probably issues
related to building housing on on any of
these Parcels but but um including this
one but I think um what I'm thinking
about is this is an example of where
we're trying to force something in into
a box that shouldn't actually be a box I
guess is the metaphor that I would use
and in this case we're taking it from
one box putting it in another box
theoretically if we approved this um
versus saying like ah the Box the Box's
edges are are wimpy is that true uh Mr
Mayor counselor Karan I think I think
that's not a bad analogy I think we
could we could work with that it uh um
it's it's putting it's
the the new the new codee and of course
it's not adopted yet so until it is we
don't really have a think but but
hopefully you guys will adopt it right
um and and
um um we'll give a lot more
opportunities to people which is I think
what you were getting at that that that
right now the the residential is a
little uh restrictive to just
residential but nh2 is not as
restrictive to just residential you can
do some other things but it would be
things that would be suitable for that
style of neighborhood development uh
rather than just going from uh Larry's
mentioning a big box store I mean
someone put a a Costco here uh it would
don't don't make promises you can't keep
I'm not I'm not Mak promising I'm just
saying that that's that's the that's the
thought when you start thinking Regional
commercial is that level of uh of
building uh okay yeah I understand okay
I think but I appreciate you making
making it
clear any other questions comments M any
member of the Public's wishing to speak
speak on this item yes come on up ma'am
you have two
minutes hi my name is Joanne gay lacky
and I've been a longtime resident of
this
city um my husband Gerald
Lackey um passed away a year ago I
believe we're the owners of
that acreage 16 acres and um I've been
mourning my
husband and have not taken I we have a
trustee handling the estate everything
has not been resolved I don't I haven't
received any information about it
because someone else is handling but I'm
very concerned and I want to take some
time to review this before any decision
is made on this this wasn't the reason I
was here and I'm glad that I am here
because this does affect my
family so um I urge you to give us more
time to study this because I don't
haven't heard anything about this yet
and I would like to take that time and I
apologize for not being aware of this
but when you're grieving and you have a
lot of things to take care of it's hard
to do the reason I was here is because
I'm just you know tired of all the crime
tired of all the um you know not being
able to go anywhere not being able to do
anything all the safety issues you know
that our whole Community is concerned
about and I have a heart for people with
mental illness and drug abuse and all
that sort of thing and I do feel like we
need to
um you know put more money into those
programs I'm very happy with what the
police are doing and um you know I just
this is our community it used to be a
beautiful Community where we could go
places and do things and you know I want
my kids to develop that land and do
something worthwhile for the
community thank you for your time Mr
Lackey just Mr
Lackey I just wanted again for
clarification you are the property owner
of this yes of
this um the 3250 some of the acreage we
have 16 Acres let me go back and I
believe it's you know I was looking at
it and I'm like that's my it's right
next to the northrise I believe this is
the village of North rise no we go down
to the real Royal I think right in back
our four we have 16
Acres this property where this is our
for is is uh Mr hex's property and and
their property is behind it so they
would need to they have a easement that
takes them out um so if they try to
develop their land they're going to have
to use this easement and that's what uh
that's what the pnz was talking about
they would like and so we're happy that
you're here because we'll we'll get in
contact and and uh see if we can work uh
work something out with Mr hack I mean I
know Mr hack and we can we can talk to
him if we can come up with something
quality we we would have a uh we would
have a better plan
here okay thank you we
understand everyone
good you had a question councilor FL I
have a question for city
clerk I have a a procedural question um
in terms of
um especially in light of what Mrs
Lackey just said um and what Mr pittz Dr
pittz just said um it seems like uh
we're at a point where a decision would
not be indicated so what would be the
procedural would it be to table it or
would it be to vote no on
it um mayor councelor flood is that is
up to you you can table this into a date
specific so we can bring you back so
that they can contact the other property
owner and get in communication with them
or you can just vote no on it it's just
it's your
decision thank you thank you Mr Mayor if
I may please go ahead L uh mayor and
councelor Flores you could vote this
down and then they could come back with
a new proposal that was less speculative
so that would be another option for you
to
consider yeah go ahead ready for a
book this is on the motion to approve
ordinance 3075 councelor McClair no
councelor matis no councelor Graham no
councel cran no councelor flutes no
councel Beno no mayor no motion
fails thank
you next is item 8.1 resolution number
25-15 move to
approve second
okay Miss
J ready good afternoon mayor members of
city council my name is Jan labach with
housing and Neighborhood
Services the resolution before you
approves a city affordable housing loan
agreement its Associated documents
including a land use restriction
agreement for City arpa funds provided
to the development of peach tree Canyon
Apartments we are also requesting a
waiver of fees associated with the
project to provide you some background
information Peach Tree Canyon Apartments
will be located at the intersection of
of peach tree Hills and cornado Road it
is a 144 unit 1 2 and three-bedroom unit
complex being developed through a
partnership between New Mexico Community
Housing Development Corporation and
Thomas Development Group the complex
will serve households earning up to 60%
of area median income currently that
figure for a family of four is
42360 complex will also have a minimum
20-year affordability
period the project has been in the works
for a while with city council approval
of resolution 23- 077 in December
2022 committing additional commitment of
up to 4 million in funding for the
project subject to the project receiving
a tax credit funding award from the New
Mexico mortgage Finance
Authority in addition resolution
23027 that was approved in September
city council approved $2 million in
American Rescue plan act or arpa funds
that require a land use restriction
agreement to be executed and filed
against the
property the affordable housing loan
agreement including the mortgage
security agreement along with the land
use restriction Agreements are required
to be executed to allow for a close of
all funding for the project so that upon
final plan approval con construction May
begin we are also asking city council to
approve the waiver of Park and Public
Safety impact fees and any remaining
permit fees assessed for the project in
the name of affordable
housing the total amount of waivers
requested is estimated at just over
$591,000 through the state of New
Mexico's affordable housing act known as
the Act and the city's affordable
housing ordinance the waiver of impact
fees or payment by alternative source
for affordable
housing is allowed and is exempt from
anti-d
donation for the Peach Tree Project we
are requesting city council approve the
actual waiver of fees to help offset
some of the costs associated with the
$40 million development and to avoid
using general funds to pay our own
Revenue accounts which has been the
procedure followed in past similar
projects
we'd like to share our um or should be
noted that sorry Peach Street Canyon
Apartments as far as the impact fee
waivers will offer onsite recreational
activities such as an indoor exercise
Room Lounge a computer center with
outdoor amenities that will include a
pool recreational courts I heard there
could be some pickle ball courts there
playgrounds for various ages landscape
Courtyards and picnic areas with walking
trails and the apartments will also be
sprinkled for fire protection per
code this slide we'd like to share our
Capital hamburger stack with you as a
visual for the different types of
funding sources required to package
these low-income housing tax credit
developments with all investors ensuring
the Project's long long-term
viability as you can see we have funding
from donana County arpa Funds New Mexico
housing trust funds the National Housing
trust funds state home funds City
housing trust funds City arpa funds
deferred developer fees and the
permanent lender all going in to make
sure this project work and long-term
viability here's an Architects rendering
of the project you'll notice there's six
apartment buildings a community center
pool and outdoor amenities
wanted to show you a vicinity map
showing exactly where the project will
be located down the corner of peach tree
Hills and North horona Road it's noted
that this is a two-phase project right
now we're strictly talking phase one it
will go on the northern half of the
comple on the parcel and then phase two
will be located on the southern half of
the parcel and we'll also have the same
amenities Phase 2 will have its own pool
all the recreational amenities as phase
one
for
reference we have the current low-income
housing tax credit rent and income
figures highlighting the 60% income
figures that are based on household size
it'll be the maximum income you can have
and then we have um the current 60% rent
income figures those the max rents um
for the bedroom size based on
60% the 30% % is also highlighted there
are some units set aside for households
that make no more than 30% of area Medan
income I now stand for questions and we
have your standard Council
options any questions by
Council Council VES thank you mayor and
and thank you very much for the
presentation I have a question um can
you go back to page four four slide four
oh um that permanent loan on the lower
right hand corner
9,656
236 who is responsible for paying it
back the mayor and city council the
project is responsible the project
owners that loan is the CRBT stands for
Cedar Rapids Bank and Trust they will be
the permanent lender and the owners of
the property are responsible for paying
that loan back is there any fiscal
responsibility on the part of the
city in this project mayor and councelor
Flores
physical I'm sorry physical
responsibility on part of the city we do
have a loan with them our funds that the
housing trust funds will be a loan so
they will be paying this back that those
funds the arpa funds are granted yeah so
how much would um be the amount from the
city the city's Housing Trust Fund
amount is up to $4 million it's a
residual receipts
loan meaning that it's based on net
income they do us a payment each each
Ann it's on an annual basis and then at
the end of 20 years it's a 20-year
balloon for all payback and and the
payback is by whom by the owners by the
owners great thank you so much thank you
thank you Mr
mayor council current thank you thank
you for presenting and as you know I've
been a fan of the peach tree Canyon
apartments for a bit and also these
hamburgers although there's like a lot
more meat in this hamburger that I've
noticed I I'm wondering if you can talk
about it sounds like there are a couple
Innovative things that are happening in
this particular development that I as I
understand them first of all the true
waving of of the impact fees which I
think is something I hope we can keep
having conversations about as we talk
about Park impact fees and what um how
to balance Park impact fees with private
developers and and their own
installation of of things for multif
family houses but I so I think that this
might be the first time this has sort of
come up in this context um and then the
second part is I know that this is a
different type of low-income housing
loan model that we have never this is
the first time we've ever successfully
gotten uh this type so I'm just hoping
you can tell folks that this is new and
different from what we've been able to
do in the past please so Mar councelor
Karan it's not exactly new we've done
this residual receipts loan with our
previous two multifam projects which
would be the three sisters apartment
complex and padrina apartments we did
the same residual receipts loan out of
the Housing Trust
one Mr Mayor uh counselor Karan Natalie
Green for the record we will note that
this is a 4% low-income housing tax
credit we typically go after the
competitive
9% Sorry my phone's ringing in my air um
so it is a little bit different in that
this is part of the non-competitive bond
set asides at the state level um we do
do L uh impact fee waivers however uh
Council typically budgets for those
impact fee waivers and we spend up to
that dollar amount so you are correct in
saying that this is um a first and that
we are going above and beyond the budget
that Council typically sets aside for us
for impact V waivers and asking for
those true
waivers thank you I appreciate it I just
wanted to know where the extra burger
patty came from so thank you uh we are
very happy with this project that it has
less layers it doesn't have the bacon
and the green chili but uh the less
funding sources um and the more robust
funding sources the better but we our
last project um the padrina apartments
where you also saw this cheeseburger had
14 layers of
um of capital stack and that can get
very complex but
um it's it's a fun challenge for staff
thank you
both mayor protim we thank you Jan and
Natalie um for the presentation a couple
of thoughts really but first where are
they in the planning phase how close are
we Maran May Pro bomo they are very
close we're looking at closing all the
financial pieces um of course the
developers always want to close before
they're ready but we're looking at se
middle September closing for the
financial pieces okay um the plans have
already been submitted they're they're
going through those so we should start
building hopefully before the end of the
year wow and then the apartments that
consist of 144 rent restricted units
those that includes the both phases is
Right mar mar Pro Boma that's just first
phase the second phase will have an
additional 144 units yes thank you
I can't possibly remember all of these
things so thank you Jan for the reminder
that's that's really exciting um I think
because Natalie of what you just
mentioned regarding that this is the
first time going but
beyond um a certain waiver I do feel
like it's important that we have a
conver conversation about um an
equitable structure regarding apartment
multif family dwellings whether it's
affordable housing or fair market
apartment um that we begin to talk
really about what an equitable structure
looks like for waving fees ultimately it
has to come from someone has to pay for
it right and so I think it's important
we talk about that I know that we have a
big Park impact fee conversation coming
soon um but I I think as I'm reading
this and I know it's sort of the first
time we're doing this um we're obviously
setting some president here and so I
think it's important Natalie that um we
have some
conversations uh this would be a good um
opportunity for like a housing PRC
moment mayor I think um maybe activating
a smaller a smaller group of folks to
talk about how we approach the issues of
Park impact fees especially as they
relate to multif family
housing thank you
anyone else any members of the public
wishing to speak on this
item seeing none
Christine oh I'm sorry
again Danielle dollar question what is
the economic plan for funding for Monty
Vista Elementary and Messa middle school
that's already
overcrowded Mr Mayor members of council
Natalie Green for the record so as part
of the funding sources we do have to do
an environmental assessment specifically
for the federal funds and part of that
is a um social justice assessment and so
we do coordinate with the schools um as
they work on their redistricting plans
we notify them of where our projects are
going and so we have an open
conversation with the school systems
about where these projects are going um
typically these projects are not new
folks it's people who are already
residing within our school systems
within the city who are maybe just
doubled up or or living um couch surfing
families or living in motels in
different apartment complexes but we do
coordinate with the schools to
understand that impact to
them thank you Natalie ma'am you want to
come thank you um my name is Beth
Bardwell and uh mayor and City
councilors and staff thank you for the
opportunity for public comment um I
would just like to say that uh on behalf
of the leg of Women Voters that we do
support
um impact fees being wave for affordable
housing here in Los Cruses um Park
impact fees currently are a fixed fee um
which has a disproportionate impact on
both smaller housing and multifamily
housing and that um we believe that it's
in the best interests of of of the city
to to increase affordable housing
throughout the city is there is a need
for about 5,000 affordable housing uh
apartments in the city currently so
thank
you okay thank you anyone
else he if I sorry Council
M um I I just like to know what the
philosophy would be in the future if if
private developers and home builders can
bring affordable rents and affordable
cost in their Apartments would the
impact fees be waved for them as
well Mr Mayor and councelor matis the
impact waiver um fee is not just an
automatic waiver for anyone there's a
process that goes from the state
affordable housing the act and then the
city's affordable housing ordinance you
have to um be a qualified grantee number
one that's an application that we
process here year then it's also
submitted to the mortgage Finance
Authority in Albuquerque for concurrence
of that qualified grantee status and
then they have to show um there's
definite affordable housing um we know
what our affordable housing are the
developers out there have kind of a
little bit a different view of what
affordable housing is um but we can only
truly wave it for affordable housing and
then it depends on the amount of funding
that we have or don't have and how the
process works as far as who we can weigh
fees for uh could you go back to the
chart to show the
[Music]
cost um no for the rent I think you had
the rent the rent cost apologize so what
you're looking at is um a one-bedroom is
am I reading this correct
795 mayor and councelor matis that is
correct and so for two-bedroom three
bedroom it goes to 11:01 as high and
could okay okay
um and that's
affordable that's mayor and councelor
matis that's the tax credit the rent
limits that have been set by the New
Mexico mortgage Finance Authority um a
little bit of comparison for a
one-bedroom um current fair market rent
right now is
$881 so a little bit less than aund
about $100 less per month and and with
that said they had to pay the impact
fees most
likely in other words you're you're
using a market comparison probably for a
private developer let's say the
apartments uh Eddie bins develops or
anyone else but the impact fees were not
waved for that development and so that
could
cost that could be where the the costs
are raised in in in the monthly monthly
rent
correct you don't have to answer that
you're not on a on on witness chair
that's okay Mary councelor matis the
rents cannot go any higher than this
that is the rent amount they cannot pay
for any additional fees anything like
that the tenants cannot the owners the
owners are assessed the fees okay so the
I think it's Cedar Rapids the the
developer that's the Linder okay okay so
our developer mayor and councelor matis
our developer is the partnership Peach
Tree Canyon Apartments it's a
partnership between Thomas Development
Group and um New Mexico Community
Housing Development Corporation okay hey
thank you Miss Lok thank you thank you
[Music]
mayor thank you anyone else okay
Christine this is on the motion to
approve resolution
25-15 councelor McClure yes councelor
matis yes councelor Graham yes councelor
cran yes councelor flutes yes councelor
bomo yes mayor
yes next is uh item 8.2 resolution
number 25- 016
move to
approve
second we have
Visos morning Mr Mayor mayor p as
members of the city council sorry yeah
say yes if you can talk directly in the
microphone we can Mr Mayor mayor PRM
members of the city council my name is
say Samaya I'm with the housing and
Neighborhood Services and the resolution
before you is to request an exception
for a home reaban project located at
cico Drive
um the uh the home in question it's a
it's in we and accessibility
improvements and we're antic
anticipating the projects to cost
$50,000 uh request requesting this
exception um
that the exception we're requesting is
to forgive um and give an exception to a
homeowner that is above the 44% and up
to
47% of of the income today ratio and
currently our applicant is at
62% okay um the uh according to the home
Rehabilitation uh handbook it cannot
exceed uh like I said
47% and also also if uh if approve this
uh res solution will give a a benefit to
a homeowner in a form of a forgivable
loan and a more comfortable home energy
efficient and this is for a person with
disabilities and let me show you some
pictures of the uh house ver this is uh
we're going to with the uh
weatherization assistance we're going to
be replacing windows also repairing
walls and on the slide to the right
we're going to repair the roofing and
replace the
skylights and for the accessibility uh
we're going to redo this this shower
since the uh home owner is disabled
we're going to remove the tub and and
make a a rolling shower for the uh
disable resident also the uh Heating and
Cooling it's it's h it's from 2002 it's
already outdated and not working
properly so with that um these are your
standard
options okay thank you sayas uh any
questions by
councel Council Flores uh thank you Mr
Mayor um I can you go back to that first
slide you kind of lost me
there okay so the um can you explain to
me what debt to income ratios and what
this handbook is all about I
Rehabilitation hbook uh when we're doing
the processing of an applicant uh the
the income to their ratios is how much
money they they make versus how much
money they owe okay that's and and and
the the handbook the home Rehabilitation
handbook only allows to 45% if it goes
over the
5% if it's below if it's at 45% the the
the home rehab advisory committee can
approve the the project but if it's over
that then we need to come in front of
city council to get a an exception for
okay so the anticipated project cost
is5
$50,000 so what if we voted yes on this
what would the
owner uh be responsible
for uh Mr Mayor councelor flotes this
program is funded by our community
development blockr oh our federal funds
so it's specifically set aside for
low-income homeowners to um go through
the home Rehabilitation un uh process
and so the homeowner has um applied uh
the issue is that their debt to income
ratio is higher than what's typically
Allowed by our policies and procedures
which is why we're bringing this
exception forward should Council choose
to uh not approve the exception our
process with the homeowner would would
terminate and they would not be provided
any program benefits um staff felt that
it was important enough given the the
homeowners fixed income and their status
as a person with disabilities of to
bring this project forward um and
request the exception that we above the
administrative process that's allowed
through the home rehab committee um is
there a bottom dollar to the city uh Mr
councel float as there is not the city
will protect our investment in the home
through uh a mortgage and so we do file
a lean against the home and as long as
the homeowner remains in the home and
meets the terms and conditions outlined
in that mortgage uh it'll be forgiven
over a period of time um should they
pass away or sell their home or or no
longer meet those requirements then our
um loan would come due and we would uh
return all of those funds back to the
city and then we would uh they
essentially become program income and we
do additional projects okay um but this
is part of our entitlement funds from
the federal government that we get every
year specific for this
program so that's what the handbook says
correct thank you thank you M green and
thank you sir thank you Mr
Mayor no one else any members of the
public
yes come on
up I just have one question um uh
Natalie what's the residual income does
she I mean because I know about the
ratios and I just assume some did you
say your name Donna Striker sorry and I
just want to make sure that what the
residual income
is uh Mr Mayor members of council uh so
the reason the debt to income ratio is
so high is because she's on Social
Security and so that is her only source
of income and then her debt is the
mortgage on her house she has no other
outstanding debt other than the mortgage
and her fixed income
um all right thank you
thank not seeing anyone else go ahead
Christine this is on the motion to
approve resolution
25-16 councelor McClure yes councelor
matis yes councelor Graham yes Council
cran yes councelor flutes yes councelor
bomo yes mayor yes
next is item
8.3 Council bill number 24
022 ordinance number
364 move to
approve second
cor okay Erica
go good afternoon mayor and council
members Erica hakz treasur the ordinance
before for you is to authorize the
execution and delivery of a loan
agreement with the New Mexico Finance
Authority for expansion and Improvement
of water
infrastructure the drinking water State
revolving Loan Fund provides lowcost
financing for construction and
Improvement to drinking water
facilities a resolution was approved by
City Council on August 21st 2023 Al
authorizing the submission of a
completed application for financial
assistance and project approval the loan
anticipated closing date is September 13
2024 the loan is payable from joint
utility system net revenues these
include Water waste water and gas the
loan amount is up to $15.3 million with
the maximum repayable amount of
12,289 49
and a maximum forgivable amount of
$3,195 the final payment date no later
than May 1st
2046 with an interest rate not to exceed
0.25% which includes administrative
cost the next slides are going to go
over the projects that are going to be
um the loan proceeds are going to fund
these following projects the first one
is the rehabilitation of the elev
airport water storage
tank we also have the rehabilitation of
the upper GS water storage
tank the spruce tank booster
station uh this one is a connection of
well 64 and W 72 to the water
system and the last
one is the Zone one interconnect project
3 South face B
and before you are the standard Council
options and I stand for any
questions thank you Erica uh councelor
Flores uh thank you mayor and thank you
Miss hakus can you go back to page I
think it was page two or
four uh maybe four uh yeah four um the
loan details so tell me do you know at
this point um what the interest rate uh
well not to exceed 0.
250% but what does that up add up to um
when the due date for full payment is
May 1 2046 do I understand that
correctly mayor counselor Flores uh yes
that's correct so they have um they can
spend up to $15.3 million so after the
completion of the projects we'll know
what the exact amount is and then
they'll start the repayment uh the last
payment principal payment cannot be
after uh May 1 2046 so the loan will be
structured in a way to have the last
payment on that date of course the the
interest rate cannot exceed that
0.25% which is a great Advantage uh for
the city to get these projects at a low
interest cost but how much would that
amount to uh by the year 2046 that's 22
years from
now I mean it sounds like oh it sounds
like a good rate but that's a lot of
money too
so do you know I do not know that at
this time counselor Flores but uh at the
closing date of the loan we would have a
good estimate of what those amounts
would be and we can provide those
numbers to you at that point in time
what in 2026 I'll be 2046 I'll be dead
by then but thank you
did I say thank you thank you Miss hins
anyone else
councel nothing we good any members of
the public wishing to speak on this
item okay
Christine this is on the motion to
approve ordinance 3064 councelor McClure
yes councelor matis yes councelor Graham
yes councelor cran yes councelor flutes
yes councilor Momo yes mayor
yes next is item 8.4 Council bill number
25-6 ordinance number
377 move to
approve
second and presenting will be Chief
Jeremy story
good afternoon mayor councel Jeremy
story police chief I'm hoping that this
one is the the easiest one we do in that
order but uh the first ordinance before
you is to repeal and replace our
possession of paraphernalia ordinance
which is currently 19-6 in the Las cruus
municipal code
uh the purpose is since 2019 when the
legislature made some fundamental
changes to the state statute the
equivalent it has made our ordinance
unenforceable um essentially what they
did in 2019 kind of an anticipation of
decriminalizing marijuana they made a
possession of or use of paraphernalia a
penalty assessment only and no longer a
a misdem a petty Miser um they also made
additional changes in 2022 which added
some exceptions for equipment that would
fall under the harm reduction program of
the har har reduction act so our current
ordinance is not enforceable because it
is in conflict with the state statute
and is only criminal this is our current
ordinance um you'll note that both B and
C are enforced as a petty mesimer and so
what we're asking to do is repeal the
entire
ordinance sorry if I'm moving too faster
repeal this entire ordinance and to
replace it with essentially the exact
same wording as the state statute the
only difference between the proposed
ordinance and the current state statute
is that subsection B would be guilty of
a petty misor versus a full misdemeanor
under the state statute because
Municipal Court only deals with Petty
misdemeanors um and sub subsection C
which under the state statute is a
felony charge of course is removed we
don't have felonies in municipal
court so this is the ordinance this is a
proposed ordinance um the wording is the
same as far as this part of it um again
it's identical to the state statute so
this first part is about possession or
use so um this is the equivalent of
possession of a drug for paraph
these exceptions would also be in
ordinance these are the same exceptions
added by state statute for the harm
reduction act and harm reduction program
administered by the Department of
Health leave it up for a
second and if I'm going too fast of
course I can go back to
anything the next one is subsection B
now subsection B is about uh delivery
with intent or intent to deliver so this
is kind of the equivalent of of
distribution or trafficking as opposed
to just having
paraphernalia so this is someone
providing the paraphernalia to somebody
else or intending to provide the
paraphernalia to somebody else knowing
that they'll use it for um essentially
something that's in a violation of the
controlled substance
act these Provisions the provisions in
uh section B subsection we do not apply
obviously the department of health
workers are providing these materials
under the harm reduction program to
others or anything that's under the
pharmacy act so obviously doctors and
healthcare providers that are providing
things that might fall under um the
definition of paraphernalia are Exempted
from the
section and so this is one of the
fundamental changes is a person who
violates subsection a which again is
possession or use by the person the
individual would be a penalty assessment
only this essentially the equival of a
traffic citation um as opposed to a
crime a criminal offense Petty misme and
a violation of subsection B would be
guilty of a petty misdemeanor under the
state statute that's a full misdemeanor
but again in Municipal Court we only
deal with Petty
misdemeanors some examples of common
paraphernalia that are encountered by
officers unfortunately daily um top left
is paraphernalia associated with FAL use
um same with the bottom middle that's
what the pills look like as they're
being smoked and then top right is a
pipe that's uh used for methamphetamine
methamphetamine
use and I will stand for questions along
with Mr
douas any questions by
Council any members of the public
wishing to speak yes ma'am
thank you very much my name is Gage
Bernett I've lived in Los crusis for
about three years um I I would like to
point out that it's utterly
inappropriate to in any way criminalize
or penalize people for carrying or
exchanging harm reduction supplies for
any reason uh the use of testing strips
the exchange of clean needles the
exchange of clean Sharps Containers
among people who use drugs is a
necessary step in order to prevent
overdoses and in order to prevent the
transmission of bloodborne illnesses
such as hepatitis C and HIV AIDS uh I
would urge you to uh consider only
passing legislation that reduces the
penalties to zero for the possession and
exchange of these necessary materials
thank you very
[Applause]
much anyone
else thank you mayor and Council I just
have a question so is the proposed
amendment strictly to match the state
statutes and there's nothing new or
additional to that ma'am can you state
your name I did it again my name is
Patty Hartman I'm
sorry it's a good question mayor council
that is to match there's nothing added
to it other than we're reducing the
penalty from what the state has in State
Statute so and I
have this is a state statute and if you
compare it it's essentially word for
word minus those two
differences say no one else uh Council
okay
CHR I wanted to ask how sorry Adam nist
I wanted to ask how the new statute will
affect the possession of paraphernalia
for cannabis use as a disabled veteran
it's a medicine for a lot of
us also good question mayor counsel so
it specifically States here as well in
the ordinance that it's for a violation
of the controlled substance act and so
because the legislature has
decriminalized marijuana if it's legal
under State Statute it would still and
city ordinance it would not be
considered paraphernalia that's in
violation of the control substance
act thank you Chief um go ahead
Christine this is on the motion to
approve ordinance
3077 councelor McClure yes councelor
matis yes councelor Graham yes councelor
cran yes councelor fles yes councelor
bomo yes mayor
yes next we have uh item
8.5 Council bill number
25-7 ordinance number
378 move to approve
Graham second
MCL and we have Chief story and Brad
Douglas also to present okay good
afternoon mayor counsel U probably not
as easy as the last one um but I'll
start this one I'm going to have our
City attorney Mr Douglas go over the
content of the ordinance this will cover
both 2162 and 21 -63 with there which
are both amendments to the current
ordinances not quite as tall as Chief
story I have to pull it down a little a
little bit uh good afternoon mayor mayor
protim uh counselors so the the two
ordinances that are at issue here now
are 2162 and 2163 known in the shorthand
as um prohibited solicitation and
standing or lering on or near a street
or Highway respectively so what's the
purpose of these amendments what were we
trying to do here you may be asking uh
well we're trying to do a couple of
things uh with regard to the prohibited
solicitation when I reviewed this
ordinance there was language in here
that was concerning to me language
that's already on the books right now uh
and so what we what we tried to do
collaboratively is make arguably
unconstitutional portions of laws that
are already on the books less
restrictive so that it can be enforcable
and these are these are Public Safety
initiatives they're not meant to Target
any one type of speech um and so the
goal there was to make sure that the
ordinances are narrowly tailored to
address a public safety concern to
ensure that the ordinances are content
neutral so what does that mean that
means that uh all types of speech would
be subject to this we're not favoring
one type of speech over another uh and
to ensure that the ordinances serve a
significant Public Safety
interest and so we are removing items
from the ordinances more than adding to
them and you'll see that in the uh
language that exists and then the
proposed revised
language so let's start with
2162 uh this ordinance was originally
adopted in 2002 by vote of city council
uh and the ordinance was amended on
November 19th 2018 after judge Brack in
the federal district court for the
District of New Mexico ruled against an
overly broad Albuquerque
ordinance uh I might might be getting
ahead of myself here but the name of
that case was the the Brewer case and I
think it's important
to to realize that the Albuquerque
ordinance and our ordinance they are not
the same the Albuquerque ordinance that
was struck down would have prohibited
all solicitation in any kind of
landscaped median it would have
prohibited anyone standing in those
medians from receiving or exchanging
anything
um from drivers on the roadway that is
not what our proposed ordinance does and
I just want to make that clear to
everyone and
so proposed change here it shall be
unlawful for any person to solicit money
or other things of value or to solicit
the G the sale of goods or services in
the manner described in subar paragraphs
1-5 there are some changes here so
solicit itation is prohibited as follows
in an aggressive manner in a public area
and here's the new language underlined
or on private property within the city
limits so what does it mean to
aggressively solicit that's actually
defined in
2161 and uh basically aggressive
solicitation would be um repeatedly uh
in a harassing manner asking someone for
something for for a donation for
instance or to contribute to one's cause
and then after after receiving a
negative response to continue that
solicitation uh to to behave in a
harassing manner or to make someone feel
a reasonable person to feel as though
they were going to be assaulted that
would be aggressive
solicitation so something that's in the
ordinance right now that I have a really
big problem with you'll see the strike
through in paragraph two uh the way the
ordinance is written right now uh the
ordinance that is on the books is that
no one may solicit anything of value in
any public transportation vehicle or at
a bus station or bus
stop that's a time and place restriction
that frankly should not be in the
ordinance and so we would propose
removing
that another proposed striketh through
is that it is currently illegal to
solicit anything of value within 15 ft
of any entrance or exit of any bank or
check cashing businesses or within 15 ft
of any
ATM again that's a blanket prohibition
and we would like to do away with that
because it is arguably unconstitutional
and impinges on First Amendment speech
rights now caveat to that is if a
private business owner wishes to
prohibit solicitation of any kind on
their own private property under the
revised ordinance they would be able to
do that they would be able to prohibit
that solicitation but there would be no
blanket prohibition like there there is
with regard to this language in
paragraph three that's why we're
recommending
removal and that's more deleted language
here uh currently illegal for anyone to
offer to clean a vehicle's windows or to
block or occupy or reserve a public
parking space uh that's arguably
problematic language and so we've
removed
that and so new sub paragraph 2 uh would
read that uh solicitation would be
prohibited on private property if the
owner tenant or lawful occupant has
asked the person not to Sol solicit
excuse me on the property or is posted a
sign clearly indicating that
solicitations are not welcome on the
property and so those are private
property rights uh those would be
enforcable um under the new ordinance
but it would be incumbent on the
property owner tenant or lawful occupant
to make it known that solicitation is
not allowed on their property
and then lastly this is new language or
part of it is new language the way that
it reads right now is from any occupant
of a motor vehicle that is in traffic on
a public
Street uh arguably that comports with
the language that was struck down by the
Brewer Court in Albuquerque remember
Albuquerque wanted to prohibit I don't
even like saying this word but
panhandling is what they wanted to
prohibit and they I think were very
clear about that you couldn't solicit
anything of value on any landscaped
median and you could not exchange any
item anything valuable uh currency with
anyone who was on a public road uh
that's not what we're trying to do here
uh under this new ordinance or the
revised ordinance The Only Exception
would be that you would not be allowed
to solicit anything from an occupant of
a motor vehicle that's in traffic on a
public street that has a posted speed
limit of 30 mph or greater and here's
the key language
if the solicitation would cause any
person to walk upon a portion of the
roadway not clearly designated Andor
marked for pedestrian foot
traffic so historically and and this is
very important historically public
medians have been uh public for for free
speech and under this proposed revision
speech would still be allowed what we're
trying to do is to or rather the
proposal
if Council were to adopt it would
prohibit any type of solicitation that
would allow anyone to walk upon the
traveled portion of the roadway so the
Brewer case that I keep bringing up uh
that was struck down the Albuquerque
ordinance I think it's really important
to note judge Brack's language some of
his language in dicta uh where he and
I'm paraphrasing but it's pretty darn
close to what he said uh judge bra said
you know if if Albuquerque had simply
wanted to keep people from walking out
onto busy
streets uh engaging with motorists and
then if they had wanted to keep people
from just entering the street out of a
safety concern that they would enter the
street while the light was red and then
the light turns green while they're
still in traffic they could have done
that but that's not what Albuquerque was
trying to do they were trying to in my
opinion uh prohibit all types of
solicitation from median
areas and so even though um the tth
circuit did end up striking down the
Brewer ordinance the Albuquerque
ordinance there's some really strong
language in there as to what would have
occurred if their ordinance had been
more narrowly
tailored and so slide nine here you see
the the clean copy uh this is the
proposed ordinance uh the newly written
ordinance and um at this time I'll turn
it back over to Chief story but I'll be
available for questions as
well that's 2162 I'm going to move on to
21- 63 just kind of set some some
context um New Mexico as a state has
does not have a good track record when
it comes to pedestrian crashes
especially pedestrian fatalities we've
been number one for at least the past 7
years in the nation lost Cru crus itself
has seen a drastic increase in
pedestrian fatalities in the last
several years when I was in traffic we
held to an average of 2 to three and
we've seen that jump drastically and
I'll show those
statistics it's also important to note
that over the past four years most of
the pedestrian fatalities we've seen
involve some pedestrian error now it's
Al that's 12 of 17 fatalities it's also
important to note that not all of them
are just pedestrian error some of them
do have an error that the driver um
committed but The Pedestrian ER did
contribute to the crash or was the sole
cause of the crash in 12 of 17
cases this is our crash data for
pedestrian crashes since 2020 you look
at the total we've seen an increase in
overall crashes both injury non-injury
and fatal but we've also seen a drastic
increase in fatal crashes in the last
four years um from averaging about 2 to
three consistently to jumping up to
seven at a high in 2022 and then five
last
year this is a density map or what we
would call a heat map for pedestrian
crashes this involves all pedestrian
crashes in Los crues from 2018 to 2022
this was put together by the mexo
Department of Transportation through
UNM and I'll zoom in so it's easier to
see but these are some of the hotspots
along a lot of the roadways that of
course are 30 m hour or greater um
concentrated in those
areas at this time I'll turn it back
over to our City attorney to go over the
all right again Brad Douglas from legal
for the record and
so the purpose of this section is to
prevent dangers to persons in property
and to prevent traffic delays and to
avoid interference with traffic
flow so standing on or near Street or
Highway uh again you'll
see some minor changes here um with to
subsection B paragraph 1 uh causes the
person performing the activity to enter
onto the traveled portion of a street or
Highway uh where the posted speed limit
is 30 m hour or greater that is new
language uh what these proposed
ordinances would do would be to prohibit
any type of solicitation uh of any kind
uh if it would cause any person to enter
onto the portion of the roadway not
clearly marked for pedestrian foot
traffic
and so paragraph two uh I'm proposing
deletion and I'll read that deleted
language uh currently prohibited is any
solicitation uh or any standing or
loitering rather that would involve the
person performing the activity to be
located upon any median area which
separates traffic lanes for vehicular
travel in opposite
directions that's language is currently
on the books uh it is very arguably
unconstitutional as I stated in my my
last trip up here uh public medians are
traditionally for for free speech for
First Amendment protected activity and
so it was very important to me that we
remove that
language new paragraph 2 current
paragraph 3 uh it would be prohibited
for a person prohibiting or performing
an
activity uh if if they were blocking
vehicles in such a way that they could
not move into a legal parking area
safely pretty non-controversial I
think and so it's unlawful for any
person to stand or loiter on any Highway
included in the interstate highway
system including any entrance to or exit
from the highway very important uh that
language means the actual traveled upon
portion of the roadway itself not
adjacent to we certainly don't want
anyone standing in the middle of the
highway and so that's what that means
paragraph
d new language
um it shall be unlawful for any person
to stand or loiter on o access use
occupy assemble or congregate on any
median that's located on any roadway
with a posted speed limit of 30 mph or
greater that does not possess a flat
area of at least 4et in diameter very
important qualifier there uh the
narrative that that that I've heard is
that or I've been asked about rather is
why are you why are you guys trying to
get people off medians that's not the
case uh the purpose of this proposed
ordinance would be
to keep all persons off of thin slices
of pavement or or keep them out of an
area that's undivided where traffic is
passing in both directions unless there
is a flat surface area of uh 4et in
diameter but presence in those medians
would still would still be allowed
and there is language in uh Evans versus
Sandy City that's a that is a published
case out of our own circuit uh the 10th
Circuit Court of Appeals stating that
municipalities do have an interest in
keeping
uh persons off of thin slices of
pavement or you know undivided areas
where traffic is flowing in both
directions so that's what this proposed
ordinance would seek to do would not
prohibit
solicitation and then paragraph e I've
mentioned that uh for purposes of this
section the traveled portion of the
street or Highway means that the portion
of the road normally used by moving
motor vehicle
traffic and so here is your clean copy
or consideration of
2163 with some of the problematic
language removed
and I'll turn it back over to Chief
story thank you Mr
Douglas Jeremy story police chief for
the record mayor councel this is just to
demonstrate kind of make sure we're all
on the same page regardless to where you
fall in this issue of what this is
ordinance is actually accomplishing so
if this ordinance is passed and goes
into effect any person standing on this
median would still be completely legal
for them to stand there to solicit to
protest any matter um whatever purpose
are there in the median for it will
still be legal under this
ordinance however this would not be
legal um because it does not possess
that flat surface of a diameter at least
4 feet and this is really what we're
trying to accomplish is keeping people
from medians that are a lot more
dangerous to be on and I will say just
anecdotally when I was in Santa Fe a
couple weeks ago I came closer than I
would like to strike in someone on a
medium that's about this wide in Santa
Fe as they leaned away from one car
towards
myane same thing this would still be
legal on the sidewalk um whether they're
standing there uh soliciting or
protesting or doing anything else that's
not criminal offense however it would
not be legal if they're stepping in the
roadway uh the lanes of
traffic some realistic expectations this
ordinance is not about trying to
prohibit solicitation or pan handling
and nor could we constitutionally I
think it's important that regardless of
where you fall on the issue that you
have realistic expectations we're simply
trying to regulate the time manner in
place to make it safer for everybody the
pedestrians and the vehicle the vehicles
on the roadway and it's also important
to know that you will still see people
panhandling or soliciting alonger
roadways because it is their
constitutional right to do that in
certain areas we are just trying to make
it safer for
everybody and we will stand for
questions
thank you Chief uh any questions by
councel Council Flores thank you mayor
and uh I have a question for City
attorney um
Douglas can you go back to page
okay
um oh uh subsection C
it shall be unlawful for any person to
stand or loiter on any Highway included
in the interstate system we don't have
any jurisdiction over Interstate that's
Federal isn't
it uh mayor councelor Flores that's
that's a really good question so within
the city limits of Las Cruses uh the Las
Cruses Police Department would have
jurisdiction for traffic related matters
and even on some onramps or off-ramps of
the interstate highway system
jurisdiction would still apply and so um
is there a certain um measurement for
that limitation excellent question
councelor Flores um with regard to and I
and I I got to I got to tell you I I
don't like giv my interpretation but I
think I need to in this uh instance my
interpretation of paragraph C is that
that would only include people actually
standing on the on-ramp on the offramp
uh on the portion of the roadway that's
normally used for motorists they could
still stand on the side of the the
roadway and engage in whatever activity
they would like okay great thank you for
the explanation thank you
counselor councelor CCT thank you um I
guess it either of you can probably um
help me understand these things so
jaywalking already not legal in the City
of FL CR is
correct correct and also assault already
a
criminal uh also correct counselor so
these are just making these a little bit
more clear for folks to understand who
is is not allowed to do those things or
help me understand we're sounds like
we're making up new crimes for things
that already are
criminalized councelor Corin um
excellent question uh I think what what
these ordinances do uh with regard to
median safety for example uh the
proposal would so jayw walking for
instance and and I really do mean it
good question um would not necessarily
apply if someone were to use a
designated crosswalk and then if they
were standing on uh a
raised uh conrete barrier median with
traffic flowing in opposite directions
let's say that median was 12 in wide and
that's not far-fetched we have those in
this city um actually sometimes they're
called pedestrian
refuges I've never heard that before
counselor um but what we're trying to
avoid is those very thin slices of
concrete any person standing on those
when there's vehicular traffic moving in
both
directions uh with regard
to with regard to the assault question
yes currently assault is certainly
illegal uh pursuant to state law and and
city code uh but with regard to the
aggressive solicitation which I believe
is what you would be referring to uh
does does lay out uh a definition of
aggressive solicitation however there
may be some behavior that could be
classified as assault uh or or maybe
could not be classified as assault but
could be classified as aggressive
solicitation for example um let's say
I'm with my daughter and we're asking
people if they want to buy Girl Scout
cookies let's say that I receive a
negative response let's say that I
continue following that person uh in a
public area repeatedly asking over and
over and over again now I haven't
threatened violence uh but it could
still uh potentially fall under an U
aggressive solicitation
scheme what if uh that person was asking
you to sign a petition for someone to be
elected to
office so we don't want to make any kind
of Distinction based on content what
we're really trying to look at through
these ordinances is the behavior um and
so whether it be political speech
whether it be someone soliciting funds
for their Church Girl Scout cookies
literally anything uh if if that person
were to repeatedly and aggressively uh
ask the solicite uh for a response they
receive a response and negative and then
let's say they follow that person and
they they just repeatedly keep asking
well then yes in in that instance the
solicitor could possibly be guilty of
aggressive solicitation regardless of
the content of the
speech thank
you mayor Pro Temp thanks mayor thanks
Brad and Chief
story uh Brad what is the penalty for
this mayor protm thank you for asking
that um since it is in the Las cruus
Municipal Court the maximum possible
penalty would be the same as any other
Petty misdemeanor so it be a maximum of
uh 90 days of incarceration Andor a $500
fine however I would like to point out
that in our Municipal Court uh due to
recent changes from both the state
legislature and the New Mexico Supreme
Court we have been empowered I shouldn't
say we the the the Municipal Court
municipal court has been empowered for a
financial obligation of any kind to be
able to divert that financial obligation
into community service and uh the
definition of community service has been
expanded in recent years here in New
Mexico to include treatment if someone
were to need treatment for a substance
use disorder or if they needed help with
their mental health that would satisfy
any community service obligation uh that
they would incur so if some someone is
soliciting on a median and they are
finded which I have some questions about
the mechanics of enforcement and they
are fined and for whatever reason they
cannot do any form of community service
they will be fined $500 Andor spend n up
to 90 days in jail I just want to have
that be very clear mayor protim again
good question not necessarily is my
answer to that so even on a petty
misdemeanor um on any on any charge
other than other than those that have
mandatory minimums uh which this this
would not have a mandatory minimum uh
but our judges are still allowed to
suspend or defer jail time and or findes
but that is it is a
possibility because this is through the
criminal justice system correct mayor
protim it is theoretically possible okay
and then I just have question Chief I'm
assuming this is for you on the
mechanics of enforcement so I assume
this will happen when a driver calls 911
and informs 911 dispatchers that there's
a person um that is breaking this law or
an officer sees it themselves and then
pulls over stops
traffic may the person yeah mayor mayor
prot it would be similar to um any other
violation of Municipal Code so the
officer could either witness it
themselves or it could be based on a
call from a citizen um it would be
enforced with a Criminal citation which
is essentially a piece of paper that
cites them into Municipal Court
primarily okay thanks Chief and then I
just have a couple comments on this one
um no more questions I think this
ordinance reads like an ordinance that
is placing the blame on the victim for
their own
suffering the Federal Highway
Administration recommends that
enforcement counter measures for
pedestrian safety focus on drivers and
Road design so so drivers distracted
drivers intoxicated drivers
Speeders then this other report um that
I actually learned about by tuning in to
the special session it's called
Dangerous by Design and actually uh Brad
Chief would you mind going back to page
14 this report called Dangerous by
Design states that as in previous years
we found that not everyone lives and
walks with the same risk black and Navid
Americans older adults and people
walking in low-income communities die at
higher rates and face higher levels of
risk compared to all Americans our
nation's streets are dangerous by Design
designed primarily to move cars quickly
at the expense of keeping everyone safe
unfortunately this crisis will continue
to get worse until those in power
finally make safety for everyone who
uses our roads a top priority that's the
end of that quote this is my quote this
isn't making safety a top priority this
is making punishment a top priority I
don't believe this is evidence-based and
during my Council comments later mayor I
will be asking that you put Vision zero
on the work agenda so that we can
actually focus on keeping pedestrians
safe thank
you I did have a question about the 30
mile per hour can you specify a little
bit where that came
from mayor councel mcer um several other
cities including Albuquerque's new
Ordnance model at that so that we can
have it narrowly tailored to the areas
where we're seeing injury crashes and
fatalities so we typically don't see the
same amount of injury crashes in areas
that are less than 30 m hour and so to
focus it again uh narrowly tailor it as
much as possible to where we're seeing
the injuries and deaths miles per hour
at greater is where we're seeing
them then I'm confused about the uh
gentleman with the thumbs up it I
thought lman was 35 so how would that be
legal on which one ma'am the one showing
where he might be okay because this
Medan is 4T or more it's more than 4T so
on medians that are greater than 4T
diameter it would still be legal and the
thinking there again uh the City
attorney already referenced a case Evans
be Sandy city where the 10 circuit has
already said that that the municipality
can regulate and keep people from those
narrow slices of pavement because of
course it's more dangerous on a twoot
median than a 15ft median there's
there's more area that if a vehicle
starts to go over the median or if that
person has to lean out or step out
there's a lot more room essentially
there's wiggle room to actually walk
around and stay away from the
vehicles I have one more question in
terms of if is this a petty momer or is
this a full mom meter just a curiosity
it would be a petty misor they're um all
codes that are in Municipal Court the
highest it can be is a petty misor so
the last one we were we're trying to do
this for penalty assessment why why
would not this be fall under that as
well Brad Douglas again so councelor
McClure that's uh that's an excellent
question uh I think the process here uh
would be
that drug paraphernalia has been
decriminalized on the state level we
were simply trying to do that here
locally to make sure that it matches the
state statute there are relatively few
penalty assessment misdemeanors
throughout the state it's actually very
rare um with regard
to solicitation or or any Petty
misdemeanor in the Las cruus Municipal
Court
uh I'll speak for myself and
that this may be unpopular uh I prefer
uh to have more of a range uh of
punishments to deal with now I will say
this if anyone's ever interested please
come down to our Municipal Court see the
work that we do we truly do this is not
lip service we truly do try to take a
holistic approach with regard to
defendants charged with any sort of
crime it's not a one-size it's all it's
not everybody goes to jail I can tell
you that there is no mass incarceration
coming out of the Las cruus municipal
court and what we had hoped to
accomplish if these ordinances pass
today um is to really connect with
people who may be in need maybe not
everyone is uh but to take an individual
approach to those persons who come
before the municipal court and they're
they're on the docket for let's say
solicitation prohibited solicitation
aggressive
solicitation uh more often than not uh
there may be persons in the court that
day who could benefit uh from some sort
of
diversion from some sort of uh pre-trial
intervention and working with our
Navigators at the Las cruus Municipal
Court I would like to thank city council
for funding those positions it's early
um but anecdota toally I think we're
making progress in the municipal court
with hooking people up into services
that are benefiting them and we're doing
that on an individual based approach not
everybody needs services but some people
do and uh I think that's my my answer to
that inquiry counselor thank you thank
you councilor
C thank you um to the Chief's point it
does sound like uh the miles per hour is
something to consider it seems like an
alternative based on the evidence of of
pedestrians would be to change the speed
limit in those areas that seems like
something that would actually really
benefit a lot of folks who might be at
risk so I would I would ask when we
consider Vision zero that we look at all
of the things that uh structurally might
be leading to pedestrian deaths um but
to to your point Brad I think um it's
important to note that any interface
with the criminal justice system reduces
a person's likelihood of getting housing
reduces their likelihood of getting um a
job in the future any interface um
tickets going to jail Municipal Court
referring to services that again I think
are are not not really um as built out
as you might suggest but but that that
interaction
there is plenty of evidence to show that
that that specific thing referring
people particularly poor people to the
criminal legal system results in them
not being able to get the services that
are required or that we would hope for
as far as positive interventions for
them so I think it's we got to be real
about the evidence here it's not just
going to jail it's a ticket it's an in
an interface with the criminal legal
system and it reduces the outcomes that
we want so I think that evidence is
really clear um and so I think sort of
suggesting that it's just we're afraid
that people are going to go to jail is
pretty um is is a little bit short of
what my critique of this is because
there is a lot of evidence that shows
that it's a comment not really a
question thank you
counselor I have a question for either
uh maybe the two of you um
there's a question of assault a battery
can be established but an assault is
very
subjective
so and wouldn't there have to be an
eyewitness even if there was a battery
and so I just want to know how you would
enforce that part of the code or how it
would be presented in court mayor
council flotes and I think for the
aggressive panhandling we're getting
focus on the assault when there's
several other elements that uh it fits
that we're seeing throughout Los Cruis
right now um it's like any other crime
the officer has to establish problem
cost sometimes that's because they
witness it and it's very easy sometimes
we have independent eyewitnesses
sometimes we have video and often times
we have a combination of a bunch of
different facts that put together get us
to probable cause to take enforcement
action um on aggressive solicitation in
general I just want to make it clear it
involves things outside of just assault
or battery which are already crimes as
was pointed out it also involves things
like blocking people from getting in or
out of their vehicle or blocking people
from getting in or out of the store and
these are things that I hear and witness
myself every single day that are
happening in our businesses our gas
stations and across the
city I I think um there's an element of
subjectivity not this isn't directed to
either one of you but I'm just saying um
there's a you know somewhat I mean you
can't measure
um you can't measure assault you can't
really um I mean someone can look
petrified um and the person standing in
front of him or her of them um could
merely be asking for directions to you
know the courthouse you know anywhere so
but the person who's being asked is
going to possibly you know react uh over
react and uh maybe cause a scene which
you know I'm just looking at the worst
case scenario and how um and then people
who do who are going to be subject to to
and I think that um in a perfect world
The modifications are are good if not
excellent but we don't live in a perfect
world and we have people who will um who
who will be criminalized and you know
prosecuted or whatever um for someone's
um perception and and that's a part and
and a police
officer doesn't stand at every at every
um median doesn't stand at every
intersection and wherever so how how is
that
weighed Brad Douglas for the record
councelor Flores um
again uh lots of good questions today so
the standard that uh Chief stories
officers would be using when
investigating these types of alleged
crimes let's say it was aggressive
solicitation uh or assault for that
matter uh let's go with the assault
example uh the the officer or officers
would be tasked with uh finding out
whether or not a reasonable person uh
would have and I know that subjective
language like like you stated but
whether a reasonable person would have
been in fear that they were about to
receive a battery and certainly uh I'm
going to go ahead and make a prediction
not every one of these would rise to
that level of probable cause but it
would have to be a caseby casee um you
know examination and investigation uh
officers would have to speak with uh any
parties that witnessed the incident they
would have to do their fact Gathering
and and um and I believe that uh Chief
story I'm not going to speak for him but
I believe that there will be some
additional training uh for these boots
on the ground officers if these
ordinances were to
pass mayor council for yes of course
there would be additional training um to
make sure that we're uh have a unified
consistent response and we're applying
it correctly I would just point out that
officers have been applying the
reasonable person standard since long
before I've been a police officer in
things like assault so they're used to
gauging the totality of the
circumstances and
evaluating um and applying that
reasonable person standard to determine
if they have probable cost for whichever
crime that is would
ex thank you Chief and thank you U Mr
Douglas attorney Douglas thank you
mayor councelor M uh Chief story uh
attorney I maybe double question here
are these ordinances going to help you
and support you in making this city
safer mayor council mati I believe they
would otherwise I wouldn't be here today
excellent and I just I
just and the and the reason I say that
is because I I want it to be obvious
because there's a lot of other things
going on with with the unhoused and and
people in our community and we're not
mentioning them in other words I I see
individuals uh urinating and uh in Parks
I I see people that are unhoused
throwing
trash on the ground and littering
there's a whole bunch of ordinances that
are being violated and yet we just allow
it to continue well these services that
we're providing the assessment and the
Captivity of these people and finding
out who they are will will this help
them get to those Services I mean rather
than we're just saying get on the
medians beg for money Panhandle it's
legal on The Wider V wider areas more
than 4 feet which is kind of good for me
because in the older districts the
medians are narrow but in District Six
they're wide so there'll be a lot of
movement to the to the wider to the to
the bigger areas so uh is this really
going to make them safer and will they
will there be an education and outreach
program can we spend a lot of money on
supporting your department the fire
department with the light program can we
just find a lot of funds instead of
other areas that actually can get the
services to these people so they don't
have to be
panhandling mayor council V I think
there's a couple couple good points that
I want to respond with one any effort to
enforce this should it pass would be
done in a tiered implementation meaning
there would be Education First um
there'd be an effort to plug people into
Services before taking enforcement
action and essentially we're trying to
gain voluntary compliance first and
that's true for a number of of things we
already confront another criminal
offense number of criminal offenses we
already confront um but this again for
realistic expectations this is just one
tool now when I look at those s
pedestrian fatalities that we've seen
over the past four
years most of them were people doing
behavior that would be expressly
prohibited under this ordinance I have
people that are stepping off a median
and being struck I have people that are
stepping off the sidewalk and being
struck I have people that are walking
from the sidewalk to the median that are
being struck and so I believe it would
make them safer the behavior that we're
seeing that is killing pedestrians is
the same behavior that's not will no
longer be allowed under this ordinance
mayor proam thank you I think there is
one piece of this that I agree with in
that it's narrowly
tailored um narrowly
tailored um to find poor
people um so it's $500 fine potentially
and uh currently there's section under
Section 1-11 court cost and collection
there's an additional uh piece in here
that I've been trying to get us to
remove but we haven't yet so it's still
here and it says persons who are brought
before the Municipal Court due to the
issuance of a bench warrant for failure
to pay fines and have not received
amnesty through a program approved by
the city council shall be assessed in
addition to any final or other sentence
and additional an addition to the fees
listed in subsections A1 through 3 and
sub and the following fee a warrant fee
for
$100 so this is creating a debtor's
court um I know that you want that you
want that we want to believe that this
ordinance and the next one will make a
safer but finding poor people does not
make a safer sending poor people to jail
simply because they are poor does not
inherently make a
safer anyone
else U Brad just one quick
question on uh you mentioned the
municipal courts we know we've invested
in that we put some resources are we
seeing any I know it's not full-blown
it's not completely uh in full operation
but we have seen some results are do you
have any data or anything on that uh
mayor mayor protm uh City
counselors I believe that Municipal
Court will be making a presentation to
you all before the end of the year uh
right
now most of the because we're only about
a month in and so most of the
information I have is anecdotal at this
point but one number that sticks out in
my head is uh in the last month 52
people and it it could be greater than
this by now uh but the last information
I had was that with our new court
Navigators and by the way I really do
mean it thank you very much for funding
that uh 52 people have been directed
into Services whether it be for
substance use disorders
uh their mental health needs uh
connecting them with a food pantry
helping them get a bicycle if they if
they had Transportation issues uh those
are the types of things that are
happening in our lusus municipal court
and it is very early but I'm very
optimistic and I look forward to the
judges presentation on that whenever we
have more and better
numbers okay thank you for that Brad and
thank you Chief sorry for bringing these
ordinance forward to make our community
safer I think between the municipal
courts and these ordinance I think we're
headed in the right direction to be
safer at at this time uh mayor I'm so
sorry I have one more question for Brad
okay go uh Brad the Santa Fe uh Santa
recently passed something similar they
postponed it for six months so that they
could do education but they also reduced
the fine to $25 is that something that
we are able to
do mayor protim um that would be
something that could be within your
purview yes I believe it would would
require um an
amendment um but that's certainly within
your purview to do that okay thank you I
will make a Amendment after public
comment I was looking for Katrina there
she is so I'm sure there's members of
the public that want to speak on this
issue yes if I can see a show of hands
well Kina we'll stand in the center
we'll start at the bottom and she'll
Usher you up uh no more than 2 minutes
we're not going to let it go more than 2
minutes and again this is not again to
get into any debate with counselors if
there's a question that the chief or uh
Brad Douglas can answer they'll they'll
provide that thank you um Beth bardell
for the record I have a question so
let's say I I am homeless and I'm
panhandling which is a constitutionally
protected right
I'm on the sidewalk the car has stopped
and that's who I solicited from and the
individual goes to hand me some money if
I step into the roadway am I in
violation of these ordinances
so under the ordinance and mayor council
it would be anything that causes the
person performing the activity to enter
onto the traveled portion of a Streeter
Highway where the posted speed limit is
30 mes per hour or greater um ultimately
if they're stepping into the lanes of
traffic it technically would be a
violation under this ordinance
good afternoon Tim Jenkins um I just
would like to make it very clear it's
very sad that we have to bring race
color and ethnicity into every single
discussion here this is not in any way
shape or form that we are trying to
criminalize any poor people or send them
to jail we're simply trying to make our
city a safer City and I personally in
the last two weeks have almost run over
four people that have stepped off the
sidewalk we're trying to make our city a
safer City not in any way criminalize
that and that's all chief of story since
instead since day one we are not trying
to criminalize poor people in any way
shape or
[Applause]
form good afternoon Council my name is
Axel hail I'm a Los CR native I have
lived here my whole life let be known
that I beant oppose any legislation that
works to criminalize or further
victimize our unhoused
community and our public safety issue
with the streets is an issue of car
Centric architecture and planning there
are places in lausus where for a quarter
mile there is not a proper
crosswalk and these ordinance is only
prove to further criminalize and
victimize our own house community and
the city's efforts and funds should be
going into
affordable housing
programs and um harm reduction programs
and accessible work programs things to
truly solve this problem rather than
further criminalizing them and sending
them through the court system on a cycle
where they can't pay fines and then get
bench warrants for fines they can only
further not pay and as it is as somebody
who works regularly with homeless people
through my retail job and through
community service that I do what we're
doing right now isn't working they're
arresting them and then they're back out
2 days later because we don't have the
capacity so adding more policies to just
arrest them and then release them will
do nothing for Public Safety your
community so I ask that you oppose this
legislation thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon mayor and Council my name
is Lucas hearen I'm a resident of
District 2 I've lived in Don County my
whole life um and this is a story about
unintended consequences in
2002 uh this Council including my
current city counselor Mr mati passed an
ordinance um Banning people from being
on medians um the unintended consequence
of that was that it um moved a lot of
people who sold newspapers the Las cusa
Sun News which I worked for at the time
um off of those medians where they were
selling papers um one of those people
who sold that his name was Dale
fairfields um two years later I worked
at Mountain Mud espresso which was
located on Valley by right by kichi was
a drive-through coffee hut I got to no
Dale over the two years that I worked
there when I met him he was unhoused he
lived in the detached sleeper unit of a
semi-trailer
before 2002 he had made enough money
selling newspapers to rent an
apartment and this city council through
their policy caused him to be
homeless I spent the next five
thanksgivings and Christmases taking
Dale
leftovers at his little encampment
and sharing the extras that I had from
my own
table I lost track of him after that
2012 I received a letter from the state
letting me know he' passed away and made
me the executive of his
estate which included a
TV and a hide to
bed and that was
it these people are human beings and
they have
lives and the policies here have real
consequences for real
[Applause]
people mayor counselors my name is
Daniel Williams I'm a policy Advocate at
the American civil liberties Union of
New Mexico and we oppose this ordinance
our position as that is that this
ordinance would best be fully repealed
as opposed to amended you received a
letter from one of our attorneys on June
5th outlining our significant
constitutional concerns we do not
believe that the Constitutional issues
with the existing ordinance are remedied
through the proposed amendments further
we share many of the concerns that the
council has already articulated as to
the ways in which these ordinances while
perhaps not intended to do so would
meaningfully result in the
criminalization of poverty and
homelessness in L
crusis one um one piece of evidence that
I would like to share with you is that
nationally the data suggests that law
enforcement of pedestrian safety
measures such as jaywalking result
massively disproportionately in the
criminalization of people of color and
poor people many of those lead to uses
of force many of those lead to warrant
checks that further
uh ENT trap people in the criminal legal
system the Department of Transportation
advocates for three areas to improve
pedestrian safety none of which are
criminalization of pain handling or
solicitation safer and more frequent
Crossings improved visibility and
reduced speed these this ordinance does
nothing to address any of those areas
which will meaningfully improve
pedestrian safety in Las crusis for
these reasons and for other the reasons
that you have already heard and will
continue to hear thatu opposes this
ordinance and ask you to vote no thank
[Applause]
you Liz Rodriguez Johnson I have many
concerns with these
ordinances
um Chief among them is that finding
someone who's asking for change 500
wow I mean that's just
like cruel at best and and inhumane at
worst and then
imposing police records on people who
may someday try to apply for affordable
housing and can't because they now have
a police record and I think it's
wonderful that The Navigators are making
progress I really do but the reality is
that a lot of these people have serious
mental health issues and substance abuse
issues and are the resources there even
if The Navigators want them to have it
are the resources there to handle that
if they're not then what you're doing is
solving the problem by incarcerating
people thank you
[Applause]
hi I'm Dana Hopkins and I want to point
out that I got up and stood in the aisle
because it takes me a while to walk and
I'm a
pedestrian I'm a pedestrian I am housed
I am blessed to have among my circle of
friends and people I care about people
who are not housed as well as people who
are housed I'm hearing a lot of
conversation from our friends from the
Coalition for
conservatives about safety and about
crime and what is it is this about crime
this this about criminalizing houseless
people or is it about keeping people
safe because if it's about keeping
people safe many of you probably see me
walking all over the place all the time
sometimes with my dogs sometimes without
them and it's not safe and I do follow
the law and those little the I noticed
in the demonstration up here about where
someone can stand I noticed that
gentleman is well-dressed he appears to
be able-bodied and he appears to be
middle-aged or young younger so he
doesn't look like me and I'm not safe on
these streets I do walk I Get Around by
walking or I'm in somebody else's car
observing how other people drive so if
we have something to deal with here it's
to do with our drivers it's to do with
safety for those of us who
walk and if we're talking about crime
why don't we be honest about it and say
we are trying to criminalize our
houseless
population rather than support the folks
who are working
so hard to provide services for
them criminalizing folks isn't solving a
problem is just
cruel there are no good consequences to
forcing that person into the court
system that's been explained repeatedly
by the folks up here in the council if
that's no joke then they have a harder
time getting a job they can't afford to
pay that that fine it's even harder for
them to become housed mean meanwhile I'm
out there walking the street and nobody
cares about the
drivers so I think this is poorly
thought out and I hope yall can do
[Applause]
better afternoon mayor council uh Chiefs
my name is Nicole Martinez I'm the
director of the msia Valley Community of
Hope when the ACLU informed the city of
Las cruus they were violating the first
amendment's right to freedom of speech
by not allowing people to solicit for
help the city took action and reached
out to Community of Hope to start a new
program that would reduce the number of
people panhandling on the street that
program is called Mono Mano and it is
thriving today unhoused and precariously
housed people can sign up for day labor
programs go out and clean up the city
including your city parks in addition to
two Vans we now have two Hots spot
trucks that go out and address
unsanctioned
encampments on any given day at least 28
people men and women who might otherwise
be panhandled are work working to clean
up our streets we had over 3,000
participants last year we have programs
that are working but on days when they
don't get selected for mono Mano they
might be flying a sign to use their own
words and when people are forced to the
streets to ask for help it's because
many of them are hungry some are
attempting to make ends meat and with
what they are given and some are not
able able to make livable wages and
plainly cannot survive on disability
benefits alone I've heard this ordinance
is to make it safer for people but why
aren't we talking about Street
infrastructure structure better lighting
better medians driver safety why isn't
this meeting about the lack of services
treatment options and affordable housing
that's forcing people to the streets why
is everything we're hearing today
instead focused on people with the least
resources we are talking fines and jail
and let's target the people with the
least amount of power and hide them I
sure wish we didn't have to see people
asking for money but then again I sure
wish people had enough to eat and a
decent apartment with an affordable rent
do you know that for every person we
house someone who was on the fringes
becomes homeless because they can't
afford rent and everything that comes
along with it and since nobody's
required to give
money then the issue must be that we
don't want to see people in poverty
asking for help so let's find a better
way to deal with it than Petty fines and
ultimately resulting in people staying
unhoused for much much longer I know we
can do better than this and we can use
Solutions like mono Mano and our
Outreach teams please vote no today
[Applause]
Vic vovos mayor counsel long road to get
here at least it feels like it's been a
long road you know I think you're going
to hear a lot of people's opinions today
we're going to hear a lot of why you
think this why you think that first I
want to be clear that personally I'm not
asking you to not do all those things I
think I think we need the court system I
think we need ways to help these people
I think we can reduce the speed limits
in some areas but at the end of the day
we're talking about trust and you know I
I think about what Mike said I'm going
to keep it together my when my friend
Mitch died and he was murdered last year
by someone that was repeatedly in and
out of jail and confrontations with
police if it had been up to me and I had
it in my power I would have brought down
the wrath of God to destroy that person
and make him no longer part of this
earth when Chief story had the same
thing happened to him he had that power
that I didn't have and yet he was able
to keep it together he kept his Force
together because I guarantee you there
was that Force they wanted to back their
to to take Vengeance for their their
person but instead Chief story was able
to bring his Force together he brought
this community together and he's asking
for something a baby step literally and
you know what if it doesn't work it is
within your power that if he goes Rogue
and suddenly goes on this huge spree of
arresting all these people and medians
that you don't like change it back it is
truly within your power to do anything
you guys want and all we're asking is
have the same trust in this man right
here that I do that we do that he's is
going to do the right thing you know he
is he's been doing the right thing since
he became Chief and and even after the
loss of that officer he continued and
continues to do the right thing support
him
[Applause]
good afternoon again my name is Michael
frames piggybacking off of what Vic said
we've had some unfortunate circumstances
here in Los crusis I hate what I've seen
the city become I personally lost a good
friend teammate same with
Vic and it's just a reoccurring
occurrence this man here is here to
support us when we spoke with you
earlier in January you all committed to
help Chief story today's the day to act
on that promise this man needs our help
we've all had issues with legislation
with New Mexico our hands are tied we
can't do this we can't do that today we
have a chance to make change for the
positive it's extremely
heartbreaking for my wife when she goes
to the grocery store to go to Sprouts to
get food for her family if I'm not
available she has to call her nephew to
to meet her in the parking lot because
she is terrified of the aggressive
solicitation yes that's private property
but they're right outside on that corner
at
McDonald's all of your constituents are
terrified of what's happening in this
city this man's trying to make a change
we're trying to make a change we're
counting on you to help make a change
for us yes these people are people yes
these people that are solicita their
people I don't want us to lose our
Humanity but we need some changes with
happening right now is not working and
it's not going to work we need to come
up with smarter ideas of how we could
help these people this is the first baby
step to start helping make change and
I'm looking directly at you miss bomo
and I think your heart is where you have
a good heart and good intentions on this
but listen to us too we have a voice we
need you guys we need it's not left or
right we need to work together
and I really hope you consider voting
for a change today
please my name is Patty Hartman get that
out of the way thank you mayor and
councel wow I feel really assaulted by
what's happening in here today
and I am not in anyone's camp or
bandwagon this is ridiculous what I see
and counselor Ben coml shame on you and
many of the others who pretend to care
about somebody but when I brought up the
need for
peers on the mobile crisis team you
rolled your eyes say Oh what now these
are important issues there are
principles of why we need to have peers
on things that's how people recover to
continue with this top down outdated
mental health system system that that
abuses people's power and treats people
like me when I admit I have a mental
health condition as you don't know
anything you don't know anything well
enough of that I resent the fact that
we're redefining treatment as community
service I think it's a Corruption of the
word um and I see a lot of that here
um I just if you really want to say you
care about these things trust me do you
know how many people get arrested and
charged with assault every day that I've
looked into and it's like that's not
justified nobody cares about that you're
focusing all of your attention on a
pretty reasonable change to the statute
I don't need to know why he brought it
up at this time the fact of what's being
proposed is
reasonable thank you
mayor rinkus and Council and Chief
story um I've been a resident of this
city for 46 years and it's no longer the
safe community that it was when I moved
here many years ago the city management
cannot continue sir sir can you state
your name sorry Harry Harry
Murray I've been here a couple times I
thought you might remember anyway City
management cannot
continue to take no action in this
effort something has to be done it's
only going to get worse it's already
getting
worse I hope you will support the
ordinances that Chief story has worked
so hard to bring here bring us here
today to do and I believe there'll be a
start in the public improving the Public
Safety in our community and getting help
for the with mental issues is a
necessary step too for making Los cruus
safer again
do not take any action will be a failure
for the management of our city and I
have to thank to story for all the
efforts he's done and bringing all this
to us here today to be voted on for
without his effort we wouldn't be here
talking about this
[Applause]
hello thank you for letting me speak my
name is Shannon Murray um I just have a
different perspective of how this could
help others I was driving I went to
Albertson's on North Main and then I was
driving to Lowe's and there was a
gentleman in the street he was not on a
sidewalk or anything and he was walking
down the line I getting ready to turn
and he was tapping on the window he
wanted some money and so I just was like
I don't have any don't have any money
went on down the line he had a little
thing around his neck anyway went to
Lowe's came back striving back and I see
the gentleman sitting in the dirt and he
had it over his head somebody did give
him money couple cars behind me orange
vehicle gave him some money he went and
bought his drugs fentanyl I believe is
when they cover their heads and are
smoking their fentanyl something like
this could have helped that person if
there was that interaction with law
enforcement to be able to say Hey you
know why don't we get you into a
treatment program instead of a fine or
incarceration that sounds pretty good to
me to get that poor man out of his
addicted lifestyle thank
[Applause]
you good afternoon my name is Lillian
Wiman and I'm a resident here in Los
crusis the root cause of the ordinance
that you've brought up here is the lack
of resources and accessible housing to
solve this we have to ask ourselves why
do people solicit why are people
panhandling the solution to this public
safety issue that you are so worried
about is providing more accessible and
affordable housing and health care so
people don't have to solicit to solve
this public safety issue that you've
brought up you need to decrease um the
speed limits increase safety for bike
Lanes create accessible smooth wide
sidewalks for people who are walking and
create a safe place for people to exist
in public um so that we don't have to
worry about uh the the the
traffic um issues that we're bringing up
here there's data that shows the
majority of fatalities happen not with
people who are soliciting but with other
citizens that are just using the
sidewalks Crossing um on bicycles um so
the solution that you're looking for is
not to criminalize solicitation or
panhandling or existing in these public
spaces it's to create a safer space for
all of your citizens so I'm asking today
that you I appeal to your Humanity um
and you serve all of L cruus um and I
ask that you vote no today thank you
hi my name is Gwen Stacy I'm just a
friendly neighborhood Advocate and I'm
here to speak against this bill because
I feel like the ordinance just doesn't
really make sense and it doesn't really
seem to have much of a functional
purpose in what it's intending to do um
I would say that if it's um in the
interest of Public Safety it doesn't
make sense in that regard because if you
actually look at the map of of the
roadways where the most incidents occur
a lot of those places such as the
intersections of lmen and Amador where
they join in is a uh area that by
definition has a section that is larger
than 43 ft and has some of the most
accidents another such section is the
parts that I can think of um on one of
the highways leading up to uh the teles
shore intersection there is another um
large area that is also a road that's
very prone accidents I feel like it's
counterintuitive to say oh we're going
to push people away from the smaller
median areas when the large medians
exist because they're high traffic High
crash incident areas so I feel like
that's counterintuitive another thing
that I find counterintuitive is if it's
about pedestrian safety um or about um
issues regarding um people of you know
uh solicitation um all it does is push
them into to neighborhoods it pushes
them towards public parks so I don't
think even a lot of people who are
right-wing or conservative would get
what they want from this bill either I
feel like it would be alarm bells
ringing because the people that might be
doing solicitation and panhandling will
just be directed towards other public
areas which people would be very
uncomfortable seeing this in I don't see
who this bill serves I don't see its
purpose I don't see how it could ever be
a bipartisanly supported bill
um so I think you should heavily
reconsider a lot of the provisions in it
or just repeal it entirely thank
[Applause]
you after good afternoon mayor city
council City staff my name is Nancy
McMillan I've been a resident of Los
cruus for 35 years recently retired from
the University and I live in District 2
I encourage you to vote no I think we
all agree clearly that there's a problem
with homelessness and poverty in Los
cruus and we all agree that there aren't
enough services so I ask you to use tax
dollars to increase those Services um I
volunteer at the at the Community of
Hope and I just want you to draw your
attention to last year they housed 945
people and you're thinking oh Dro in the
bucket but 945 people that's more than
one a day it's more than two a day it's
one every 9 hours and 25 and nine and a
quarter hours The Community of Hope
moves someone from homelessness into
stable housing so let's increase that
let's keep let's let's increase the
services so let's take the money that
would be spent on the shopping cart
issues that's coming up next and this
issue and move that into increased
Services because we and an affordable
housing all those things that we know
work we know that we can help people
move from homelessness into stable
housing we have models in Los crues and
experts in Los Cruses that are making
that happen every single day of the year
and so let's really solve this not just
put a Band-Aid on it that might make it
look better thank you very
[Applause]
much my name is Joseph Cervantes I have
the pleasure of working with many of you
knowing many of you all I want to take a
moment because I know these issues
before you are hopefully illustrating to
you and everyone in the audience here
that the legislature grapples with these
issues just as you're grappling with
them today I've heard you say these are
good questions they are good questions
there's a complicated issues and so any
suggestion that that we in the
legislature where I serve in the Senate
my colleague Senator Hamlin's here today
as well too that we take these lightly
is is something you're seeing the full
picture of I hope I can add a little bit
of information then I want to invite you
to my town hall with which will be
September the 19th at the farmer ranch
we're really going to dig into what the
legislation was and why it didn't pass
and why the legislature made quick work
of this but some information for you I
hope in all the years that I've been in
the legislature it's been 24 it's common
to say the crime problems are because
Santa Fe ties our hands I think some
gentleman said that a little bit our
hands are tied or it's Santa fe's fault
or you get pulled up to a press
conference where the governor says we
need more
laws let me help you to understand the
issue real simply
because I've seen Los Cruses changed
I've I've been here my whole life I'm a
business owner we use mono imano thank
you counselor Beno to make that happen
we have security guards that our
Starbucks we we deal with all these
crime issues but let me help illustrate
something there are two cities in
southern New Mexico that are the safest
of the five cities in the state of New
Mexico these two cities in southern New
Mexico have the same state laws that you
and Los cruus do these two cities I'm
happy to represent in my district these
two cities are Sunland Park and Anthony
sunent Park and Anthony are two of the
safest of the five safest cities in the
state of New Mexico they're on the
border so don't be misled by those who
tell you that this is a border proximity
don't let people mislead you that it's a
matter of race or ethnicity it's none of
those things why is Sunland Park and
Anthony safer than Los crues
statistically by far ask that question
and realize they're operating under the
same state laws that everyone else is in
the state there are hard and questions
and there are easy answers and of course
I'd love to have much more time
I'm not going to take a position on
these bills that that's a difficult
decision for you I just ask you to not
create the appearance of doing something
really do
something Donna Striker it's actually
August 19th
Senator no it's the August 19th the town
hall will be August 19th my name is
Donna Striker today you have an
opportunity to show the citizens of Las
kusus what your desires are about this
city
I'm hearing a lot about homeless and
unhoused but I think the population of
Los crusis is larger than that
population and it doesn't appear that
our desires or our wants
matter it's always about race color
creed
sex and the citizens and the business
owners don't seem to be heard a yes vote
for the two ordinances um will show that
you're willing to listen to the majority
of the citizens and try something to
address the out-of-control crime the
rubal and physical assaults the homeless
and the non-homeless that are
perpetrating on innocent citizens
innocent innocent
citizens that's also an issue why aren't
innocent citizens besides innocent
homeless being considered I guess I
don't
count a no vote will tell the citizens
you won't listen to innocent citizens or
businesses or private people endless
stories of property damage physical
assaults verbal harassment
human waste cleanup fentanyl
cleanup drug cleanup needles and the
endless endless Litany of fear to go to
a public park alone or with my
grandchildren the state of New Mexico
has now been rated by two independent
polls as the number one most dangerous
state in the United States what a great
stat how satisfying that we're 50th in
education 46 in drunk driving we're
state to raise a family if it's bad
we're number one
if it's good we're
last when officer Hernandez was
murdered this Council stated they
supported the police chief and the
police and Public Safety and if you
really meant that you will vote Yes on
these ordinances and if you vote no it's
obvious you do not mean that and that
officer Hernandez tragic death is
inconsequential to you and I'm not
my name is uh Mary Martinez white and
I'm here before you today as a private
citizen not representing any
organization I'm affiliated with I want
to start by acknowledging the folks in
the audience who say they want safety
indeed there is problems out there
because of homelessness because of
mental health issues I also want to
acknowledge uh the police chief who is
doing the best that he can uh with the
resources that he has and we can't rely
on our police to solve or Jail uh our
way out of this I want to take a step
back and take us back to one of the root
causes how did this get started back in
1981 Ronald Reagan stopped Federal
funding to huge mental health
institutions and he did the right thing
because they were frighteningly horribly
inhumane human warehouses we don't need
more big box houses or
institutions I think that this ordinance
while it is not intended to jail folks
who are homeless that's the end
result there are probably 1500 people in
Las Cruses who are the cause of what is
called the revolving dors cycle of jail
to prison to Streets back to jail many
of them have two specific issues number
one they have an undiagnosed mental
health disorder number two they're
drinking and drugging to self soothe an
undiagnosed mental health disorder these
folks are very treatable so instead of
sending a police officer to the corner
why not send a case worker to try to get
folks in into the
the the places where they can actually
get help but the question is do we have
the resources we do not while the money
stopped back in 1981 we still do not
have the resources that we need in order
to meet the specific need let's stop
taking a look at symptoms and let's get
down to causes thank you kindly
good afternoon my name is in Los Cruses
all my life and I'm a proud member of
our Multicultural and diverse Community
my parents Gilbert and Mary ltis
instilled in me a strong sense of
community community service and the
importance of giving a hand up just as
we were once
given why can't we look at these
ordinances as a way to Channel people
into the service
you all are working to implement and
those that are already in place they can
work together this is a start and we
need to start
somewhere and I'm changing up what I
wrote so give me just a second
um we shouldn't be afraid to go shopping
or to go to work to recreate in our city
the city I grew up in
I know counselor benom knows this fear
because she experienced it when she got
a voicemail
threat there's a large majority of us
that see people in crisis not everyone
sees them as
subhuman I see someone's child out
there that could be my child and I thank
God it's not because my hands would be
tied in getting them any real help sorry
I'm
shaking some of them made choices that
put them in their position or through no
fault of their own some have been put
there through pres prescription drug
abuse by their doctor some just have
mental illness that is beyond their
control no matter the reason these
people need help and they cannot get
that help if we don't do something to
get them tied into that help
you work for us and I'm asking you to
work with us please pass these
ordinances and let's start working to
making Los Cruis beautiful for all of us
thank
[Applause]
you yeah if you're wishing to speak
start making your way down please
good afternoon mayor and City councilors
my name is mik
lad excuse me I'm navigating some
allergies today and I'm honored to be a
state representative in New Mexico's
house district
33 um showing up in Santa to represent
our southern New Mexico values and
specifically the west side of the valley
I didn't expect to speak on this bill
today but I'm mostly here as a listener
and a learner so like you I can hear
what's happening in our community and
try to better understand how we approach
safety in a holistic way I did want to
just share one comment though um earlier
today in the presentation it surprised
me to hear reference to a bill that I um
sponsored um along with Chief Justice of
New Mexico Supreme Court Shannon bacon
and eventually passed into law and that
bill was to eliminate post conviction
fees in New
Mexico yes while we were doing that and
and fees are are different than fines
fines are intended to be a punitive
punishment um for a crime that that
someone was convicted of but fees were
the stack on that we used to to operate
in many ways and willfully fund New
Mexico's um criminal legal systems and
other resources that families needed um
so while we are eliminating fees yes in
fact we expanded the list of community
service options because that's what New
Mexicans deserved but mostly the intent
of that bill was to realize recognize
and acknowledge that these Financial
barriers placed on people who simply
never have or never will the resources
to pay them don't make any sense and
don't improve Public Safety for any of
us among other things and it hasn't been
shared today um if someone ends up in
jail whether or not we like the idea of
it we as taxpayers generally are paying
to incarcerate someone because they
didn't have the money to pay a fine
something for you to consider
[Applause]
mayor council one Garcia criming L
crusis has been rising over the last few
years citizens legislators included know
this yeah we were told they couldn't
speak on this twice no he hasn't spoke
on this subject on this on this item
this is first time here I'm sorry did
you speak about crime earlier I spoke
during public
comments thank you it's okay proceed
one mayor council crimeal excuses has
been rising over the last few years
citizens legislators included know this
we've been here for the last two years
but here we are speaking as a Hispanic
and a product of poverty poorer Than
Dirt I work my way out of it and I find
it very
condescending to believe quote poor
people are incapable of living outside
the criminal
system if anyone white black blue yellow
whatever color you happen to
be is concerned with getting in trouble
with the law think before they act
remember accountability responsibility
and consequences this applies to all of
us and please don't forget the victims
thank
[Applause]
you I'm William Roberts I have not had
any problem with encourag
verions uh with your
homeless or the mentally ill that uh
walk the
streets or I've had more of a problem is
with your
professionals just right down here the
road at Magistrate Court I've almost
clocked Judge
Martin along with a couple of lawyers
that he was visiting with because they
were not paying attention they were just
standing there and they just stepped off
into the street I have a problem on
University with
students I've almost hit a doctor over
here on tore I was only doing
20 you have a charge to redact a law
this is not against the
homeless please let's have some
consideration for Public Safety and of
driving I have a perfectly clean
record in
driving I've been a CDL
holder for 40
years I've been a
pilot and I think you need to stand up
and
support our police chief thank you
good afternoon Mr Mayor and councel my
name is Kent Simpson I'm a resident of
Las cruus was actually born over in the
old Memorial Hospital uh on Alam a long
time
ago to me this ordinance is about
nothing but Public Safety it says
nothing to
say you can't Panhandle it doesn't say
you can't wave a sign proclaiming
whatever deity you have is the greatest
it doesn't say please don't have a car
wash and advertise that you're going to
have $5 because it's going to go to some
kid's funeral or for somebody's family
member this is purely about don't do
this where it's
dangerous that's it it's really simple I
encourage this Council to vote for this
ordinance thank
[Applause]
you good afternoon Kevin Cardoza I'm
speaking on behalf of the Les Cruz
Association of Realtors um I can say
that I don't envy any of you today but
um one thing that I would like to point
out is that while we understand that
this ordinances do not fix every problem
and are not perfect um it is a small
step in the right direction and this is
something that not just the real estate
industry but also the citizens have been
asking for for a very long time so I
would ask that you support this this
ordinance as well as the following
ordinance unfortunately I won't be here
when that comes up but I would really
ask you to consider voting in favor of
both ordinances and police chief we want
to thank you for your leadership and
everything you're doing and we keep your
folks and our thoughts and prayers every
day whenever you go out there and try to
keep our public safe mayor and members
of city council thank you very much for
the leadership you've provided as you
navigate this issue whether you're
voting for or against this this uh
disorder es we really appreciate your
public service so once again we ask you
to consider this this ordinance in the
following ordinance thank you
[Applause]
yes thank you for allowing me to speak
my name is Lucy Silva I am a new member
of the Las curses Community I moved here
recently from Albuquerque when I could
not find a safe affordable place to live
I downsized and imp playing more to live
in a smaller space here my apartment has
been broken into
once and when the landlord put up new
security lights those were also knocked
down I live in a historical district
close to downtown I could have walked
here today except for the Heat
um I have a lot of mixed feelings about
this I am a pedestrian I like walking
along here in the historical district
the sidewalks are not safe for
me they were built by the
WPA the streets are not safe when I
attended my neighborhood meeting
people complained about four-way
stops not being allowed would it be
possible to have speed bumps in my
neighborhood the
drivers are a problem with speeding in
the neighborhood I have personally
called the
police more than once
about what I have considered dangerous
things and then our hours later called
them again when they have not been
resolved at my neighborhood meeting I
was scared
by people in my neighborhood talking
about uh drug
houses and that in the
neighborhood I'm not really sure that
these possible ordinances are going to
bring any of that to conclusion thank
you
[Applause]
hello
everybody councils here my name is Jerry
Silva I do have a business here in town
I was raised and born here I love Les
cres I
do have a heart for the homeless people
anybody in need there's not one person
that goes to the store
that ask for food that I don't
help I serve at El
Cito I try to help any way I can I do
believe this is a start it might not be
perfect but I do
support Chief story I think he is
awesome I think he has been working very
very hard and I do believe that we
should give him the best support we
possibly can is it you know you can tell
it's very undivided here I mean we're
divided excuse me but we can't please
everybody we have to have a start not
doing nothing is not going to help do I
believe you know uh Joanna you you had
mentioned $25 that's perfect or
something doesn't have to be 500 can we
meet can
work together I mean like I said I run a
store I've been doing this since forever
and we always have to when I bring my
managers together we get together to
resolve an issue we can't
be stuck on this issue or stuck on this
one we have to work together so I do ask
you all please let's start let's give
this a try thank you very much
hello I'm Lisa parrot I'm a resident of
district 6 I fully support and Trust
chief story's knowledge experience and
judgment it is apparent to me that he
cares for all people who call Los Cruz's
home the current ordinances enable human
trafficking how much of the money do the
people on the street corners actually
get to keep I have personally witnessed
two incidents of human trafficking one
was a Cadillac Escalade at Walton and
lman intersection where the hatchback
was opened by the driver from Arizona
and the man on the corner reached in to
get ice water the second one was the
same intersection turning onto the
Walgreens side I was waiting for the
light to turn and I saw this service
vehicle that had been painted over in
front of me and I was thinking to myself
I wonder how many people can be in there
and sure enough before light changed a
man gets out the b the service truck
pulls on and then the man makes his way
to the street corner please give Chief
story the tools he needs to help his
department and him
help these same poor individuals we are
all concerned about don't keep these
people in their self-destructive state
by allowing them to continue the way
things are now with no treatment and
help thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon mayor council Chief story
my name is Lucinda lifelong residence or
Lucinda Lan Duran lifelong residents of
um Los Cruses and it saddens me to the
core to see what our city has been
becoming four years ago I didn't need to
lock my doors
now I do now I have to make sure all my
belongings are on the inside because
they'll walk off within
minutes I had a whole speech um but I
want to tell you a story that I saw last
week I was at Tractor Supply there was
an individual banging on all the windows
the staff came out and kind of pushed
him off the lot he went out towards
Sonic Drive-In
I kept looking at it and at that same
time it was 4:00 was a Mayfield High
School student walking home little
skinny kid with a
backpack that individual followed him to
the intersection and was yelling at him
and I could just see that boy probably
15 years old
terrified when I left I had to go to
savart
so it was a few minutes later he was
continuing on I was like oh there's that
young man and again another
individual on the side with the shopping
cart you could tell he was completely
under the influence of something he was
standing in mud he was wailing his hands
and he picked up mud and threw it at the
boy my heart broke I wanted to pull over
and put that boy in the car but I knew I
would probably scare him more than
anything so I just kept an eye on him
slowed down and made sure he got home
safely he lived in the trailer park a
low
income across the street from safe Mar
who's going to protect the the children
who are going to protect the innocent
what would you tell that child okay
ma'am your two minutes are up thank you
I thank you please vote Yes
hi there my name is Liz Coyle um first
thing I have to say is to be clear I
actually really like the revisions to
the ordinance I think they're very
reasonable um they helped to pinpoint it
a little bit uh but I'm not 100%
convinced that panhandlers or or
solicitors of any kind are the safety
problem that we're saying they are I
wondered if we know how many of your
traffic stats were occurred occurred
with a panhandling incident as
well your traffic report you had earlier
uh any of them dude any of them have to
do with mayor councel and just to be
clear this this ordinance doesn't make
mention of handh handling or
solicitation at all 2163 this applies to
anybody who's on the areas of the
roadway that would be prohibited but uh
none of the fatalities are directly
related to panhandling but they are
related to behavior that would be
prohibited by the
ordinance thank you very
much and um my next thing is that I I
would just from my personal experience
walking in Los
cruus no drivers know to stop for
pedestrians so I would say that maybe we
should add something about that in there
um and the one solicitation I can think
of that is a danger is the people who
stand out there with the signs to honk
at that intersection thank
[Applause]
you good afternoon my name is Adam niis
and I've been the person that you want
to pass this ordinance against I have
I've been in the street panhandling and
I have a substance abuse problem I'm
also United States
Marine that is in danger of homelessness
and receiving help from Community of
Hope I swore an oath to the Constitution
so did you so did you I want you all to
remember that thank you
[Applause]
all right good afternoon mayor city
council um never actually spoken in
front of y'all before but um I'm coming
with an experience and I figured you
know might as well share it considering
this is a pretty I guess important issue
to talk about so um my parents we've
been oh my name is Rudy
kassos um my family we've been here for
the last8 years and I've have a lot of
my my parents are lot wiser than I am
age wise and um you know they have no
ailments thank the Lord and um they like
getting out and going shopping and
whatnot and my mom outright refuses just
to drive our streets because she almost
has hit two people who um as we were
talking about stepped off the median in
the center of the roadway um so she
tells me she's like I'm not going to go
to Walmart go for me and I'm talking
about the Walmart on avenita demisia um
we take the route between motel
Amador um and Valley usually a lot in
West Pacho so that's usually where we
drive and um I've had experiences of my
own I go to hang out with my friends my
brother lives um on the east side of
town and I'm coming home um doesn't
matter what time of day night day um
I've almost hit two people as well who
just happen to be in the middle of the
roadway um perhaps they stepped off the
median um either sides middle or
sidewalk so it's just not and I I'm
speaking because it's like chap story
said it's a safety problem and it's
safety issue for people who are driving
and it's also a safety issue for people
who happen to be on the sidewalks or in
the medians or in the roadway um so I
ask that you highly consider voting yes
on this measure and the rest of the
measures um as I am a proud resident of
Las cruus and I really want to see
everything stay stay well and not get
any worse frankly so thank you
hello my name is Austin likes um I think
that the most compelling idea about
these ordinances is Public Safety and
that seems to be what everybody really
cares about myself included I just think
that the case made for this has not made
a case that criminalization of these
behaviors is what will lead to increased
Public Safety um I think that it has
pointed out a critique of the way that
our city is designed in specific places
that suggests that yeah change is needed
and I think we all agree that change is
needed but there are some things that
are worse than doing nothing and things
like this that are not evidence back
things like this that will result in
more interactions between police and
folks that are just the most vulnerable
in our community it will continue to
increasingly make them more vulnerable
as we've seen again and again so while I
think many of us would advocate for
making uh medians like the one that's
shown up on screen safer um I don't
think it makes sense to do this type of
thing so the case for safety has not
been made to be addressed through
through these kind of criminalization
efforts so that that doesn't make any
sense to me I think um we keep hearing
that call for safety we can get behind
that without getting behind this kind of
criminalization that doesn't serve the
broader community in the way that more
safety would serve the broader Community
um but instead just kind of targets the
most vulnerable people in our community
so instead I would urge everybody to
please redirect our towards making the
community more walkable more safe for
pedestrians instead of targeting those
vulnerable population thank
[Applause]
you my name is St Sergeant dorby white
let me get my bear and I
know ma'am' my legs are already clapping
yeah could you state your name and then
speak directly into the microphone so we
can hear you thanks okay um there's a
lot of things I want to say Grom is
trying to get something that every time
they approach a veteran she stamp stupid
on them when you go to a VA Clinic no
matter whether you have a mental health
problem or not they encourage you to go
see a psychologist or psychiatrist so
you're stamped with those visits now
I've been on foot in L Cruses all the
way from alag to Al Paso and I'm never
and on driving a negative encounter with
a homeless person and I'm reluctant to
stand back and have you automatically
assume that they have drug issues mental
health issues um because that's not bad
and some of these people like I'll give
you an example I make
$63,000 a year and I've been evicted
three times I was I had my stuff thrown
in the trash and while I'm up here
trying to protect my rights they're
violating them um there's education B
barrier with the court system um and
there's a guy named story
um he made the Constitutional leg the
Constitution United States legible so
anybody that lived here as a citizen or
a victim of a crime in the United States
could read that and understand that and
get the education they need to pursue so
these
evictions it's like this I lost so much
stuff and sometimes these people and
anyone in this audience had a blink
their life could change like that
medical education job loss and as far as
the
pedestrians it's a Driver's
Responsibility to yield to a pedestrian
and I watch S at the bus stations and
these people go 90 miles an hour your
your time is up thank you thank you
thank you
good afternoon mayor mayor protm um city
manager distinguished Chiefs and
counselors my name is Tanika Sosa
Gonzalez and I am a behavioral health
nurse here in Los Cruses I wasn't going
to speak today because I really don't
think that um originally I didn't think
I had anything of influence to add or
anything of importance to add but I will
share that as part of my career as a
board certified psychiatric nurse in
2012 I had the privilege of being the
first nurse in the Detention Center
under the Bravo
settlement so this concept is not
foreign to me and the people behind the
concept are not foreign to me either I
also come from a family of law
enforcement officers and so I feel this
I feel this discussion very deeply and I
also significantly understand having
worked in the system and continuing to
work with people who are systems
involved the consequences that occur
with each touch of the Criminal Justice
System
I don't I I think the thing that that is
the most important to me today to
elevate is it's very hurtful to me as a
Hispanic and Indigenous woman to hear
people that are in my community say that
this is not that race is not a factor
that poverty is not a factor that gender
is not a factor because the reality is
and the data proves that it is a factor
it's real and whether or not we choose
to sit and feel structural Injustice
does not make it disappear
and so we have to talk about it because
no matter what you decide today there
are going to be unint
consequences and that is what I think as
a as a care provider as a mother as a
Hispanic indigenous woman that is what I
am stealing myself for is whatever those
consequences will be and I want for you
to consider that and I want for it every
insection when you hear that it doesn't
exist to to ready yourself with facts
and truth so that you know know that it
does because we cannot have this
dialogue without talking about deeply
rooted Injustice and the true Colonial
system that we are that we are existing
in you thank
[Applause]
you my name is Fred
Huff I've heard a lot today about
inhumanness of these
ordinances to me the inhumanness or
being
inhumane is doing nothing and allowing
these people to compete comp continue to
spiral down the hole of mental illness
and drug abuse and such like that as you
all well know I live over by burn Lake
and I see this day in and day out of
what these people are doing and the
suffering that they go through I'm also
going to tell you another story uh the
night of the electric light parade we
were up at the Albertson's uh parking
lot up on North
Main and we saw this
lady uh boy she looked pathetic she was
pushing a grocery cart and had look like
all of her Earthly belongings in it
pushing around basically soliciting
throughout the cart throughout the
parking lot and since we were hanging
out there for a while just kind of
watched
her well it came Quinton time she pushed
a cart over to a nicer SUV than I
own nice Texas plates beautiful SUV
unloaded all of her belongings into that
that nice SUV Texas plates I mentioned
gets in drives off another lady did the
same thing so I'm not convinced all
solicitation is people that are really
homeless and in need of of this I also
well I support this ordinance and I hope
you all vote for it thank you yes sir
honorable mayor and Council I'm going to
rip through this since we've got two
minutes my name is Carrie Hamlin and I
come to you today my capacity as state
senator for District 38 I'm here today
to ask you to reconsider the ordinances
before you and before I get into the
reasons why I'm asking you to reconsider
I do want to commend the Los cruus
Police Department for the 14 arrests
over a week ago where officers from New
Mexico State Police and LCPD conducted a
retail theft operation I feel this was
an effective use of taxpayer money to
address the issues that the three
ordinances that are before you today are
an attempt to address but what is before
you today is really an effort for to go
for the lwh hanging fruit instead of the
real criminals that the coordinated plan
I just mentioned effectively caught it's
easy for this those of us who have homes
have jobs aren't hiding from a violent
spouse or a partner aren't dealing with
debilitating mental illness or addiction
issues aren't disabled and unable to
work or even have that one catastrophic
event that can lead any one of us to
lose our homes and have no other option
but the struggle on the streets if we
haven't experienced any of that it's
easy for folks to say that people need
to just pick themselves up by the
bootstraps and just get to work I'd like
my taxes to go to effectively arresting
the drug dealer that lives down my
street one who has been charged with
several crimes and when it took LCPD
three different attempts to arrest him
when they finally found him home he was
out on the streets the next day I'd like
my taxes to go to catching the actual
criminals who broke into a locally owned
business one that provided the police
with clear photos of the guys who broke
into their building and as well as
ongoing location information of the GPS
data from stolen Apple headphones the
business owners waited 2 and a half
hours for officers to arrive but finally
gave up and went home it took 3 weeks
for a det effective to call these
business people back I would rather my
taxes go to real police work like the
arrest of the 12-year-old and the
15-year-old who stole 30 guns from a
local gun store several of those weapons
were found in their home those are the
crimes that are tarnishing our city and
are frustrating our business owners I
encourage you to focus more on real
solutions and not trying to hide the
homeless because that is what this is
doing this is trying to erase those
communities and my colleague Senator
santes and representative Ladena there
were legitimate reasons why we decided
to vote against that it's because they
were illegal and irresponsible thank you
Mr
Mayor good afternoon mayor mayor protm
counselors um first I want to say that
today is National Community oh my name
is Pamela angel I'm the CEO of Amador
Health CER
and I would just want to do a shout out
to my Outreach
workers um it today this week is
National Community Health Center week
and today they were out and they're
doing Outreach with our mobile unit in
the streets of Los crues marel Vasquez
is a certified medical assistant and a
certified Community Health worker marit
meia is a bachelor social worker and
also certified health worker um what I
want to say brief ly because I think I
will speak again tonight um is that
there are a lot of laws already on the
books that aren't being enforced I spoke
at the public Summit last winter with
that Chief story Leed and thank you for
your work um and at that Summit he
showed statistics that showed people
arrested 10 20 40 50 times over and over
again people are not facing the
consequences for their actions for the
laws that are on the books laws like
public
urination um assault
vandalism battery Etc so that's like
Senator Hamin said that's where the
focus should be also I'd like to state
that it's been wonderful to be able to
receive funding to expand our facilities
thank you Senator Hamlin Senator svantes
representative Laura Cadena um however
there's no funding for services we as an
agency that serves people with mental
mental illness and also substance use
and on the campus of M Valley Community
of Hope we get no almost no City dollars
for services we can build buildings but
then to staff them is very difficult
thank you
thank you City councilors and mayor I'm
Sarah Smith thank you for your service
these long meetings are
brutal please vote Yes on these
ordinances and to the legislators who
are here today I really wish you had
engaged in the special session when you
had a chance to push for changes to some
of those laws that you're complaining
about right
now I know I'm not the only mother who
has been followed in parking lots by
people demanding money from me and my
children it's got to the point where I
won't even go to certain stores at night
anymore because I fear for our
safety as far as The Pedestrian safety
ordinance as described by Chief story we
have seen a large increase in pedestrian
fatalities in Los crusis in the last few
years and the state of New Mexico has
the highest rate of pedestrian
fatalities in the nation Santa Fe and
Albuquerque have already passed similar
ordinances recently although the ACLU is
here trying to say that this ordinance
violates the first amendment that
argument has already been tried and
failed in the case Evans versus Sandy
City in Utah that ordinance was similar
to ours and the Court ruled in favor of
the city to uphold the ordinance the
Supreme Court of the United States
denied the petition to review that
ruling just this weekend I witnessed a
woman standing on the median at salano
in Maine she was drugged out to the
point that she looked like she could
barely stand that median is narrow the
intersection is very busy she had her
dog with her it was a very dangerous
situation for her that could easily have
resulted in her or her dog being run
over this ordinance is a common sense
measure to protect people all the people
of lost Cruis and prevent fatalities
please vote yes thank
[Applause]
you good afternoon my name is vello I
live in District 1 I oppose this
ordinance by 2015 at ages 79 and 80 my
grand parents had run out of money they
um they had Social Security but it
wasn't enough to keep a roof over their
head and my grandfather was too proud to
take up my my uncle's offer to live with
him and and didn't take me up on my
offer to live with me and they both
worked their whole lives uh except to
trade-off when to raise their kids and
so somebody was home to to raise my
brother and sister and I and and then
May 26 2020 um just a few weeks after
becoming housed again my grandfather
died of
covid the talk in this room today has
been really ugly um and really hurtful
and makes broad
generalizations about a very large
diverse community of folks who end up in
circumstances um for very different
reasons and there's no like good story
or bad story or like this person
deserves respect that person deserves
respect they're all people it's been
brought up several times they're all
people just like like us um we all
deserve the same amount of safety um
this is just one story out of hundreds
in our in our in our city and the
policies that the man RZ and um Chief
story are supporting are are some of the
worst that the policy has to offer um
these policies serve only to abandon our
relatives and neighbors to the violence
of policing and
jailing I I've heard a lot of talk about
safety none of these ordinances are
about safety this is about um mization
only the ordinances have been called
holistic they're not
holistic um they've been called
something new we got to try something
new locking up people we don't
understand and we don't want to see we
don't want to look at and we don't want
to do the real work to support and love
and respect that's an old and lazy and
dangerous policy prioritizing the
comfort of the privileged over the
collective well-being and Community Care
has never been the answer I ask you to
oppose these ordinances today thank you
okay that seems like all the public
comments
um Council
Christine this is on the motion to
approve ordinance
3078 councelor McClair yes councelor
matis yes
councelor Graham yes councelor cran no
councelor flotes no councelor bomo no
mayor yes motion
passes next on the agenda is item 8.6
Council bill number
25-8 ordinance number 379
so
move second
Graham go CH mayor council Jeremy Sor
police chief I wish I could say this is
the this is going to be shorter than the
last one but this one is longer than the
last one um so we'll do our best to
present it thoroughly without dragging
it out any longer than it needs to be
this presentation is about the shopping
cart containment and retrieval ordinance
now this is a new ordinance
however it's only new for us it's not
something where we're Reinventing the
will I'm not that creative this is
something that exists in over 100 other
municipalities throughout the country
and there's also a state statute in
Arizona that is very similar to how our
ordinance is
drafted and just for reference a list of
other municipalities that already have
an existing
ordinance about 40 of the 100 cities
listed in this ordinance are with in
California although there's cities
throughout the country that are on this
list at this time I'll have the city
manager come up and go through the
ordinance itself and then I'll be
talking about implementation if the
ordinance did
pass Chief gave me a
promotion that's all right so Brad
Douglas from legal um I'll go through
the text of this proposed ordinance uh
so the shopping cart containment and
retrieval ordinance which would go in
chapter 8 of our Los cruus Municipal
Code if passed and so this article would
apply to every business in the city of
Las crusis that provides shopping carts
for customer use uh on its premises and
also any person who removes or who is in
possession of or who has abandoned an
offsite shopping cart so the goal behind
this ordinance is to be two-pronged uh
uh to hold those accountable who remove
shopping carts uh off
premises uh but also very importantly I
think to hold businesses accountable uh
when their carts end up off
premises and so going through some of
the proposed definitions uh from section
1848 administrator means the director of
Community Development or their design
business owner or owner means one or
more persons doing business on behalf uh
thereof I'm not going to read this word
for word but um and an offsh shite off
site sorry shopping cart means a
shopping cart that has been removed from
the premises where it's used for
shopping
purposes premises would mean the entire
area owned or under control of the
business owner including the parking
area uh and for businesses in a shopping
center or other development where common
areas serve more than one business that
common area shared by those
businesses shopping cart defined as a
basket or similar device which is
mounted on Wheels and generally owned
and used as part of a retail
establishment and used by a customer for
transporting goods within the retail
establishment's bounds or within the
premises uh shopping cart plan so the
shopping cart plan which we'll discuss
in a little more detail here in a second
would be something that would apply to
the businesses affected by this uh means
a document submitted to the city by the
business owner and we'll talk more about
that in just a
second so proposed section
1849 prohibitions applicable to business
owners it shall be unlawful and a
violation of this article for a business
owner to fail to affix an identifying
sign or an engraved marker to each
shopping cart fail to submit a shopping
cart plan or request for exemption and
conformance with subsection 5B of this
proposed code or to fail to comply with
the shopping cart plan approved by the
city and again the administrator of
Community Development or their design
would be the
administrator so would also be unlawful
to allow or authorize a shopping cart to
be removed from the premises except to
allow for those carts to be serviced or
repaired by a qualified and licensed
company offsite it would also be
unlawful to remove disable or otherwise
an effective restraints designed to
prevent removal of those shopping
carts all right holy wall of text
section
1849 um an owner who violates this
article or any provision of the owner's
approved shopping cart plan or an owner
of real property who allows off-site
shopping carts to remain on Real
Property shall be subject to the
following enforcement procedures
revocation of an exemption granted under
subsection 5 of this code uh in addition
the requirement that the owner would
abide by the conditions of a new
shopping cart plan
with with terms to be dictated by the
administrator uh C imposition of a fine
of not less than $100 nor more than $500
for a first
violation a fine of not less than $200
nor more than $500 for a second
violation within a 3 3 65 day period and
a mandatory $500 fine for each
additional violation within that 365 day
period Please keep in mind these
Provisions would apply to business
owners subsection D procedures for
abatement of a nuisance under sections
185 and 187 of the municipal
code uh paragraph e civil action for
enforcement including to obey a public
nuisance by injunct injunctive relief or
any other court order
and then also possibly proceedings for
revocation of a user site development
permit if applicable so these would be
the potential penalties for a business
owner who
violates these enforcement procedures
and penalties are cumulative with one
another and any other remedy available
at law are in equity and are not
mutually exclusive any one or more of
them may apply and may be used or
charged in response to a single
violation of this
article at the discretion of the
sentencing judge any person convicted
under this article May perform community
service in Le of any fine
imposed other prohibitions it's unlawful
or it shall be unlawful on a violation
of this article for any person to remove
a shopping cart from the retail premises
where it is used for shopping purposes
or to possess an off-site shopping cart
not subject to an exemption or exception
identified in this article or to an
abandon or to abandon an offsite sh
shopping
cart would also be unlawful to alter
convert or tamper with a shopping cart
or remove any part or portion thereof or
to remove obliterate or alter an
identifying sign Mark or serial numbers
on a shopping cart and then of course
exceptions uh carts may be removed from
premises from the premises for the
purpose of maintenance repair or any
other service with the written
permission of the owner or their design
shopping carts may also temporarily be
removed from the premises with the
permission of the owner or their design
for the purpose of transporting goods to
any public mode of conveyance so long as
the card is immediately retrieved by an
employee of the business so if someone
were let's say shopping at Walmart for
example and they needed that shopping
cart to transport their goods to the bus
stop that would be totally allowable
however an employee would need to
retrieve that
cart so the enforcement of this uh would
be a petty misdemeanor under the
authority of the Los cruus Municipal
Code uh person who violates this
provision shall be guilty of a petty
misdemeanor in Le of any jail time and
or fine the sentencing judge May order
that the person performed community
service which by definition includes but
is not limited to counseling Andor
treatment for substance use disorders
Andor mental health
treatment if uh
recommended
uh and of course that person would have
access to our Navigator this
hypothetical person would have access to
our Navigators at the Los cruus
Municipal
Court shopping cart identification signs
the business owner shall have assigned
permanently a fixed each cart and a
prominent and clearly visible location
the sign Andor engrav Mark marker shall
include all of the following information
uh a the identity of the owner of the
cart or the business or both B the valid
address and phone number of the business
for returning the cart to to the owner
or business C if the business has more
than one location within the city an
identifying store number and D notice to
the public that the unauthorized removal
of the cart from the premises or the
unauthorized possession of the cart is a
violation of the Los cruus Municipal
Code so these would be requirements for
business
owners the shopping cart plan so
proposed section 1851 a each owner of a
business shall effectively Implement a
shopping cart plan in accordance with
this AR article each shopping cart plan
shall be conspicuously posted at the
place of
business uh B exemptions a business
owner is exempt from this article for
two years at a time if the owner submits
an exemption request and meets all of
the following
requirements that business owner would
have to show that uh there are effective
restraints that prohibit any carts from
exiting the premises or from operating
off the premises examples of such
effective restraints include but are not
limited to polls attached to carts to
keep them from passing a certain point
electronic wheel locks on all carts
which prevent wheels from rolling past
the perimeter physical constraints such
as Ballers or continuous use of courtesy
clerks to accompany customers and to
return the carts to the
store and also the business would be
required to secure all shopping carts
during the hours the business is closed
by storing the carts inside or locking
them outside on the condition that the
carts be immobilized if they're stored
out side or secured in some other manner
that the carts are not accessible to the
public shopping cart plan would have to
include the name address and telephone
number of the business business owner
and name and telephone number of the
on-site manager the number of on-site
shopping carts and a description of how
the business owner intends to comply
with the requirements for sign
identification businesses would be
required
to uh provide a description of the
customer education process process by
which the owner would inform customers
that the removal or off-site possession
or abandonment of carts is a violation
of uh says state law should really say
this the municipal code uh in this
article loss prevention description of
the measures that the business owner
will Implement to prevent the removal of
shopping carts from the premises these
measures may include any of those listed
in subsection B of the section or use of
any security SEC Personnel to prevent
removal security deposit for the use of
a cart or other measures demonstrated to
be effective and approved by the
city cart retrieval a plan for mandatory
retrieval of off-site shopping carts
occurring at least once a week and
within three business days of notice
from the city under subsection a of this
code cart retrieval may be done by the
business owner employees or agents of
the business or a cart retrieval service
contracted for by the business owner or
a combination of owners at owner expense
a business owner shall not be required
to retrieve an off-site shopping cart
and the immediate possession of any
person as a matter of fact we would
encourage them not to do
that uh implementation still on the
shopping cart plan the plan shall
describe the measures that the owner
will take to prevent the removal of the
shopping carts from the premises to
retrieve off-site shopping carts on at
least a weekly basis and to modify these
measures should they result in
circumstances that would justify
revocation of the
plan administrator review Once Again the
administrator would be the director of
Community Development or their design
within 30 days of the submission of a
shopping cart plan the administrator
shall either approve or deny the plan or
request additional information needed to
render a decision if a plan is denied as
being incomplete or inadequate or if
additional information is needed the
administrator shall notify the owner in
writing the owner would then have 30 30
days from the date of the receipt to
submit the additional information or to
submit a complete and adequate
plan the admin the administrator may
deny a proposed plan on any of the
following grounds if the plan were to
fail to include information required
under the article or failed to
adequately address the required elements
if the plan failed to meet the standards
contained in subsection C5 of the
section to prevent the removal of the
carts or if implementation of the plan
would violate any state local or federal
laws
um also if the owner were to knowingly
make a false statement Andor omit
material facts from the plan or any
Amendment there
to plan modification the owner could if
they wanted submit a proposed plan
modification to any previously approved
shopping cart plan to address a material
change in circumstances or to modify
ineffective Provisions the administrator
shall then review and consider the
requested modification in the same
manner set forth in subsection
D every two years a business
owner would have to renew an exemption
or a previously approved shopping cart
plan without modification if no more
than six of the owner shopping carts
have been found off site within the
preceding 90 days the owner shall submit
a written application for Renewal by
July one of the year of renewal together
with the owner sworn statement that no
more than six of the business's shopping
carts were found offsite in the
preceding 90-day period
the administrator could revoke a plan
approved under subsection D of this
section deny a renewal request under
subsection F of this section or revoke
an exemption granted under subsection B
if any shopping cart belonging to the
business had been found offsite on seven
or more occasions within a 90-day period
or if the owner has failed to comply
with any other provision of this article
or if the owner again knowingly made a
false statement or failed to disclose
material facts in an application
denial or revocation no such plan shall
be revoked until the Community
Development Department director or their
design notifies the business owner in
writing that the revocation is pending
and will become Final in 30 days unless
the revocation is stayed by filing a
request for a hearing with the Community
Development Department to appeal the
decision and of course then the city
council would act as the board for
hearing such
appeals okay I'll turn it over over to
Chief
story I'm Sorry Brad at least it was a
promotion not a
motion mayor council uh I want to spend
a little bit of time in talking about
what implementation would look like if
the ordinance did
pass and so we'll start with a 60-day
period for businesses to kind of get
their shopping cart plans together
submit those to Community Development
for review and then an additional 30
days for Community Development to review
that plan once they receive it at the
same time that's occurring a 60-day
period would occur for Education where
our officers and Community Advocates
would go out into the community and talk
to people uh educate them about the new
ordinance and give them a specific date
when enforcement would start we also
would work with Communications at the
city to put that information out through
every available means after the 60-day
period voluntary compliance is still the
goal and that is true for many of the
things that we enforce enforcement when
done will be conducted using a well
resourc and designed a well-designed
operation
and I'll talk more about that in a
second I want to spend just a minute
talking about enforcement in general
because I do hear a lot of
misconceptions about what enforcement
looks like our officers we deal with
this day in and day out so we're not
talking about this conceptually this is
the reality of what happens in doniana
County um with very few exceptions
people do not go to jail for non-violent
misdemeanor one of those exceptions
being D DWI so generally enforcement is
done through a criminal citation or a
criminal summons in this case into
municipal cour Court um unless the
person has an arrest warrant or they
commit some other crime that's an
arrestable offense that person is not
going to jail for a violation of this
ordinance and this is also an important
note is that Patrol officers are not
going to be able to stop and interact or
deal with every person that has a
shopping cart that's unrealistic and I
just want that expectation set upfront
it has to be done with well resourced
and a holistic operation that kind of
addresses a lot of the concerns all at
once so what would that operation look
like
like operations will be designed to be
thoughtful and holistic so we will
partner with our community outreach
officers codes enforcement our community
Advocates and hopefully with our
Community Partners including Community
of Hope Outreach if it passes but also
the clinic of day Familia Amador Health
Clinic Peak Behavioral Health similar to
the Outreach project we did on bacho
about a month ago so that as we go and
do these projects we have the ability to
offer specific resources to the People
based on their individual needs um we
also plan on providing an alternate
items to carry their essential property
I get that no matter what happens the
the hardest part of this is what do you
do at that point when you're dealing
with someone with a shopping cart
especially if it's full of belongings
and we're not talking about full of a
trash bag with objective trash in it so
what do we do at that point and so we
would provide some mechanism and I have
some some thoughts obviously that I can
expand on to carry that property and
then offer to keep any of the property
they cannot carry for safekeeping up to
90 days of course for your charge and
important not is that a lot of times the
property we see is not necessarily
things they need to live dayto day but
it's obviously things that are important
to them that they don't want lost or
stolen and they have no other mechanism
to store it so they have to carry it
with them everywhere they
go reporting on operations I commit that
if the ordinance passes in 6 months or 6
months after implementation I will
report on any operations that are
conducted and any enforcement action
that's taken to city council obviously
in a public form so that that's put out
there um it was noted already by our
City attorney Mr Douglas the municipal
Corp program is already trying to keep
track of data so when they come back and
present they can give us some
information about the SOS
program I want to talk about additional
property Storage Solutions which I think
are an important component of this
ordinance um this is a shipping
container what we call conx box is a 40
foot shipping container this could be a
mechanism to offer long-term storage to
people who don't have any other option
than to carry all their stuff with them
all the time so what does that look like
on the inside of the shipping container
you line it with shelving you have bins
that are obviously numbered so that you
have accountability and can track that
property how long it's stored for
ultimately it's going to be the decision
of whoever is the person administering
this program whether it's 90 days 180
days the goal would be to store that
property and in the time it's stored
hopefully that person finds housing and
then they can come back and retrieve
that property and not have to worry
about it
again couple options um one option would
be to find a way to put it at the
Community of Hope campus um that's where
all the services are and so it plls the
people to where the services are I get
that um there's logistical challenges
with that and i' I've talked to Miss
Martinez and I know that's not an easy
thing to do but ultimately if it's not
possible if we cannot do it logistically
at the community of hope we will find an
alternate location for the city of Los
crues to have this service
available and this was already mentioned
but I I just want to kind of highlight
again the SOS program because it so far
although it's very early there's a lot
of positive um there's a lot of
positivity coming out of this program um
data is limited but there's already been
some success stories in such a short
amount of time people that we were
citing two to three times a week for
things like shoplifting that have only
had one site in the last month and Al
it's only been a month that the
program's really been up and running
it's important reminder too that as a
condition of a deferred sentence um or
probation people order to the do an
assessment based on the assessment they
determine what are the best resources or
treatment for that
person this is kind of general
information about Municipal Court in the
process of how it works all defendants
who cannot afford fines and this a lot
of this has been mentioned have the
option of asking the judge to perform
community service in lie of paying the
fines um and that's something that
municipal court has been actively
pursuing and trying to make sure that
people are aware of and use it as an
option it's also important to know that
community service by definition now
state level can be treatment for
substance abuse or substance use
disorder or mental illness a deferred
sentence results in a dismissal if the
conditions are met most of the time
what's happening in municipal court
whether it's the officer or the city
attorney's dealing with it they offer a
deferred sentence to the defendant and
basically what that says is if you meet
these conditions at the end of it that
charge is dismissed and shows as a
dismissal not a conviction that
conviction goes away and so using that
opportunity to then make one of those
conditions s in assessment and treatment
and another thing I think that will help
just across the board not just with this
ordinance or the previous one is that
the city attorney's office very soon
hopefully within the next 30 to 60 days
will be taking over all criminal cases
and Prosecuting them instead of the
officer there's a number of reasons why
that's better but one of them is that it
guarantees a UniFi uniform response so
that whatever the strategy is of the
city and what we're trying to accomplish
we make sure that that's happening for
every person who's involved in this
program
and ultimately if enforcement action is
taken it can be a pipeline to positive
change we see very often that the people
who need help the most are the least
likely to get help that's what our
officers see day in and day day out
there may not be enough resources into
an an County but when I talk to a lot of
our
providers all of them I won't name them
none of them tell me they have zero
capacity our act teams there's three act
teams in doniana County none of them are
at capacity so there may not be enough
resources for what we would like and
what we need but there is some capacity
that's already there for programs like
this this is a really important point I
want to note I mentioned 100 other
municipalities that have an ordinance
ours is the only one that puts it in the
ordinance that the preference is for
treatment and not fines or jail time all
the rest just leave it as a misdemeanor
or their equivalent of a petty
misdemeanor and note whatever the fines
and jail time are that are associated
with it R specifically lays it out of
course the judge is still have
discretion so we can't necessarily take
that away from them but it's spelled out
right in front of them every judge
whether it's these judges or 5 years
from now this is the preference in the
ordinance I want to briefly just go back
to what is the purpose of the ordinance
and I had slides with with many photos
that I've been sent I chose I took those
out and I chose we chose not to to show
that I think we did that at the work
session um we talked about it in other
forums and other and other places so I'm
just going to highlight a few things
that some that I've already said some
that I haven't but there's a number of
reasons why this ordinance is important
and all of them are valid one is that it
does create a public health and public
safety issue within our city we're
seeing that grow from the time this was
presented to me by our community
outreach officers over a year ago to now
that issue has grown in our city um we
see light and it's ultimately become a
public nuisance and another point which
is important is that it makes a bad
situation in our City appear worse if
perception does matter and when we're
trying to get real change to happen when
either side's perception is off from
reality it's very difficult to make good
decisions and so when people see things
like I'm going to show you just briefly
their thought is that there's 5 10 15
people that have an encampment and the
reality is it's one person and that
perception being off is not helpful to
anybody the most important point for me
is that theft is a crime and that's not
something we gloss over as soon as we
justify and excuse any crime we
compromise the entire system if theft is
okay because of somebody's housing
status or for any other reason then why
is shoplifting not okay and if
shoplifting is okay why are other crimes
down the line not okay and logically the
end is that all crime is permissible as
soon as we excuse any crime there are
several businesses with very few carts
that's happened although that seems like
a minor inconvenience of course depends
on the person's physical capabilities
whether not having a cart is that big of
a deal another thing that we have seen
is businesses are spending thousands and
thousands of dollars a month to replace
carts the customer ultimately pays for
that and of course the customers who
have the least suffer the most from
increased prices from spending all that
money replacing carts shopping carts
full of stuff limit the mobility of
those who need services and their access
to them I'll show the video but that's
an important point that doesn't affect
every person who has a shopping cart but
it affects many people who have shopping
carts they have four 5 10 14 carts full
of stuff that it's very important to
them even if it's objectively trash and
they're not willing to walk a mile or
two miles to where the services are
because they can't leave that stuff it
becomes an anchor and of course shopping
carts full of trash and debris do create
a Public Health Challenge so as an
example obviously this is a public
health challenge to anyone who's around
this cart but also the public at
large so how about as the problem I've
shown this before on the left is the
amount of resources it took to clean
this up this is a combination of our
community outreach officers some City
workers in mono mono which has been a
fantastic program um and that's that's
the other side of this to look at our
successes and I I agree 100% that mono
mono has been great for
everybody this is a video of of one
person in the carts that they had and I
I'll just tell you there's 14 carts
there most of them are full of what
would be objectively trash now to the
this person of course it's not
necessarily trash it's just an extension
of their the mental illness that they're
suffering from that's untreated and or
their substance use but It ultimately
becomes an anchor where they can't get
to the services they need this one
example highlights basically all the
points I made before about why this
ordinance is important all in one person
now this was probably about a year ago
now and I just want to highlight this
this is the same person about two weeks
ago they still have not gotten help
they're still dealing with the same
issues that they were dealing with over
a year ago and we still have the same
problems with the public health issues
it presents the perception issues when
someone walks by this and sees this they
don't think it's one person suffering
from mental illness they see this as a
bigger problem than just one person this
is the same person as well two weeks
ago coming to the end I promise I just
want to highlight a couple things about
what this what the community as a whole
is seen I think we get stuck in our our
silos a little bit we hear our Echo
chamers I just want to put out some
objective information that we've
collected in the past month and a half
in 2019 right after Peak we put out a
public safety survey and a company
administered that survey we got those
results and we just repeated that survey
with within the last few months word for
word every question identical survey and
we'll release all the results soon but I
want to highlight just a few
comparisons this question is please rate
how important if at all you think it is
for the Los crues Community to focus on
the overall feeling of safety in Lost
crues in the coming two years in 2019
85% % people said it's very important to
focus on the overall fill inness safety
the next two years in 2024 93% said it's
very
important this question was please
indicate whether or not you have done
experienced the following in the last 12
months the first one will go the the
yellow bar reported a crime to the
police in Los Cruses in the last 12
months in 2019 83 83% had reported a
crime in the last 12 months in 2024 90%
had reported a crime in the last 12
months the next question his household
member was a victim of crime in Los
cruus in the last 12 months in 2019 36%
had a household member who was a victim
of crime within the last year in 2024 it
was
45% a few other comparisons this
question was in the last 12 months how
many conversations have you had with
your neighbors about neighborhood safety
and I'll just I'll highlight the
Extremes in 2019 40% said none in 2024
only 20% said none on the other end in
3.1% had more than 12 conversations
within a year with their neighbors about
safety in 2024 20% had 12 or more
conversations with their neighbors about
safety last one from this survey is how
many interactions did you have with
police officers during the past year
again I'll just highlight the Extremes
in 2019 45% had no interactions in 2024
25% had no
interactions in 2019 2.2% had 10 or more
interactions in a year in 2024 5% had 10
or more interactions in a year and if
you look at every category other than
zero in 2024 it has
increased the final thing is our power
engage survey this is part of our
customer service text based software so
when people call for any number of
reasons found property stolen vehicle
burglary they get a survey at the end it
asks them to rate how well the officer
did give comments and then we ask do you
support the updates for the city of Los
cruus ordinances
which is all of them that we just went
over including this one there's 3155
responses 90% said yes 10% said
no again I think it's important to set
realistic expectations regardless of
where you fall on this issue no matter
what happens you are still going to see
see people with carts officers are not
going to be able to stop and deal with
every person who has a cart we have to
have the resources in place we have to
have the time to deal with it
appropriately we can't just stop dump
out their items s and move on that's not
what's going to occur this is about
taking a problem and making it better
making it manageable with both sides the
business side and the other
side some final thoughts again we are
dealing with something that is Criminal
theft we are dealing with something that
causes Public Safety and public health
challenges and problems and ultimately
this ordinance can be something that
connects people to treatment even when
it's not something they want to choose
on their
own with that we'll both stand for
questions thank you Chief thank you
Chief uh councilor Flores uh thank
you thank you Chief story um somewhere
along the line either my brain fell
asleep or I my eyes closed I didn't see
the transition from the uh corporate uh
liability or respons
responsibility and uh the person uh who
has a shopping cart do you know exactly
where that when you
transitioned U the responsibility for
the
owner not not the O I mean not the
subsequent owner but the mayor C you're
talking about in the ordinance
itself so it's
it's from one or the other so I'll try
to hit it hopefully I can see what
you're trying to to
find a lot of this is centered around
the business because there's a lot of
requirements for what they have to
submit what they have to abide
by
so these are the prohibitions that are
applicable to the business owners right
here MH and then it talks about
enforcement specific to the business
owners that's also for the businesses
and then it goes to other prohibitions
and this would apply to any person in
the city and then it talks
about um some exceptions and then
enforcements specific to the other
prohibitions well it seems to me that
um it seems to me that the business
owner um should be the one that is maybe
has to register with the city you know
Walmart uh Target Albertson's you know
these big corporations that have Boku
money a lot of money and a lot of
resources it seems to me that they that
it it should be mandated that they have
it um and if not you know they have the
taken the precautions that were listed
in terms of you know have chaining it
having the pole go up um and you can't
take anything out um and um and
definitely tagging their their their
their cards I don't
understand how if they're doing doing
that how anyone could then take the the
carts some some of these carts sometimes
just roll off and they're down the
street I mean I've I think we've all
seen that um and that creates a hazard
you know especially on lman but um
because it's so hilly and stuff but so
my question is I I I still stand by my
assessment that
um yes it is
theft but it's
it's almost you know in order to commit
a a crime you have to have the mental
capacity to make that
decision and if someone has mental
health issues it's going to be very hard
for anyone in that position where you
don't have a home you don't have
anything except maybe you know whatever
you
know stuff that you put in a cart
whatever that that alone would
negate
the the
necessary steps to make a decision to
make it intentional so theft does
require an intentional
act so if people are so desperate and so
demented and I don't mean that in a
critical man just
objectively how can we criminalize that
and I so I I think the onus the the uh
this ordinance should be entirely the
owner should be
entirely on the uh business owner and um
and they should uh they should all tag
their their you know their their cards
and uh well and just keep them somehow
in their property at the end of business
you know the chaining the whatever
you know putting them inside the store
so I I think that it would be a good
ordinance but I it's really hard for me
to criminalize someone who um is down
and out I mean imagine I mean I mean I
can't imagine being out in the street
and the only thing I have is crap that I
find literally and figuratively that I
put in a shopping cart and feel that
that's you know that's the extent of my
home you know your
little movable home so but I do
appreciate the effort I think that
um it's I mean it's written very well
but I still go against the I still
believe that someone who lives that way
isn't mentally capable of making a
decision I'm going to take this as
opposed to you you know like big uh
theft that that uh big businesses commit
you know and I won't go into details but
those are my comments and and thank you
uh Chief and and thank you uh Mr
Douglas councilor
Grant thank you so much uh not a
question Chief if you want to relax just
a
comment um I wanted to wait to just kind
of share my thoughts in between the two
ordinances because I think what I'm
going to say speaks to the spirit of my
decision on both of them and that's that
I do not see this as an either or
situation um I've only been in the seat
for two and a half years but in that
time I have very consistently supported
what we're posing as root cause
Solutions that's affordable housing
voted on some of that earlier today
that's continuing to support our
incredible Community Partners who are
offering those services and resources
Community of Hope
specifically I am in awe of what you do
and I also acknowledge that so many of
your best successes are not visible to
the public and I just want
to speak to that and honor that and to
say that I will continue
to
support root cause solutions that do
address structural inequity because I
recognize that as a reality
too and I feel like it was a great
coincidence that mvda had a presentation
this morning with something like 350,000
calls for service in the last year and
that speaks to a fragile system where
911 becomes the safety net for things
that it shouldn't have to be the safety
net for but
unfortunately that is the system that
we're functioning in right now and I am
all in to build better holistic more
robust
systems but in the
moment I feel that a segment of our 911
responders who have become responsible
for a community challenge have come to
council and have requested changes that
they believe will make them more
effective at their jobs and I want
to honor that as well um that these are
all pieces of much bigger Solutions in
which we all have a stake um and other
than that to say this has not these have
not been easy decisions and I've pretty
much been living on caffeine and Pepto
Bismol for the past few months so that's
uh that's kind of where my head and
stomach are right now but I just wanted
to share my thought process thank
you thank you thank you councelor gr
anyone else any com councelor k um I
have a couple of questions some for Brad
and some for chief so whichever of you
wants to take those questions at this
time um you mentioned the idea of a con
and a program that would be running um
to keep people's things so I'm I'm
wondering Ing and I mean this is a
secondary component to this you've also
mentioned doing significant Outreach
things while I've also heard that you
know the police department is
underresourced so I'm not sure where
first of all I would like to know the
budget for this as it um seems like it
has an implication of staff and
fiscal um involvement so I think that is
something that it's important to know if
we're going to be dividing up resources
that
were uh I would argue instead of
investing in real solutions we're hiring
a staff member to Shepherd people's
stuff that we took away um I think that
seems a little bit
misusing resources frankly but I would
like to know how many of those resources
we are going to divert from from that
and I guess that's part of the bigger
question which is um the city will find
an alternate location I think that also
means an
alternate organization that
will that will do this mayor councelor
cran not necessarily so this is in to be
clear this is not just for storing
people's property that's wasn't a
shopping card this is to proactively
give them a resource to store things
that are important to them so they don't
have to carry it dayto day and it's safe
um when I say we I mean the city so it
doesn't necessarily have to be the
police department there are it would
basically find the place where we have
staff that's already there if you
someone is taking property and it's
there for 6 months it's not they're
there back and forth every day so the
time commitment we will have to see what
that is but I don't see a significant
time commitment from a staff member
they'd probably be during certain days
of the week during certain hours that's
available to either deposit or withdraw
property uh as far as cost a 40ft
shipping container is approximately
$5,000 um and so that's a one-time
investment shelving another couple
thousand but then you have something
that hopefully will last for years as a
resource for people who are homeless
okay so maybe no staff commitment but
taking them from wherever else they are
and investing in the physical resources
and the space wherever it is so that's
the approximate budget thing so the
second part and I think that this is
really a question that I have I think
it's both Brad and you but it seems
first of all we're it sounds like the
the punishments for stores that don't
comply and I assume that means not
submitting a plan or not doing the
things that they say they're going to do
in the plan we not submitting a we don't
want to do this plan which are the three
I think options is that correct for
stce mayor councelor Corin uh that is
correct uh also we would be attempting
to curtail stores that have repeated and
excessive offs off I can't talk I'm
sorry offsite shopping carts within a u
requisite time period
you see that escalating penalty
structure for business owners not
necessarily
individuals so I'm curious and I guess
this is sort of my my other question
this is looking to um I guess make folks
accountable for partip being accessories
to theft as as it were suggested in this
ordinance and I'm curious um you know
we've heard a lot about violence and the
things that happen um is there a similar
sort of model that looks at when people
leave their guns unattended in their
cars how are the people who support that
subsequent violent crime then sort of
followed up with in a if we're if we're
talking about people who who are
supporting crimes um what what are the
what are the types of enforcement that
we use on people who who contribute Arms
by leaving their weapons uh in their
cars without without locks or at home
where their kids can get them what
typically do we do we do to enforce that
negligence mayor councelor Corin um if
you're speaking with regard to the state
of New
Mexico um it's my understanding although
I have not looked closely I'll I'll be
honest that um those persons would be
held liable under a negligence Theory as
you had correctly stated
so couldn't we similarly add an
ordinance and if if prevention is sort
of the goal here wouldn't it be helpful
if we added an ordinance that made it um
extra problematic to leave guns
unattended at home um and follow up on
that you understand my my parallel
thinking here it seems like as a
city we're holding people more
accountable for letting carts out of
their view than letting guns out of
their view to be clear that's what this
ordinance is
suggesting it's
not members of the public if you could
please keep it down and let the
counselor speak thank
you councelor Corin uh I I appreciate
that thought uh
certainly um if there's legislation that
you'd like to discuss I'd certainly be
more than happy to do that with you we
had some state legislators here just a
moment ago but uh counselor I'd be glad
to meet with you offline for sure thank
you I would love to hear about the
accountability for folks who who are
accessories to the many violent crimes
that we are hearing in our community
about
so um the so then I think that um my
last question is really related to the
idea that you know this is this is about
sort of intervening with folks and and I
don't I would again argue these
interventions are harmful not um
positive but I I would actually propose
that we amend this by
cutting um section
18-49 B so I formally request I formally
move to eliminate all of Part B under
1849 so
no Part B which is further
down
noed keep
going starting with other prohibitions
this part I move that we that we just
eliminate this part completely all of
section B
to eliminate that entirely entirely yeah
I agree but you should second it if you
agree I second the emotion oh well um we
we still need other comments discussions
public comments and then you can you can
make that
motion is that how it works well we we
weren't going to start a yeah we weren't
going to start uh any voting Amendment
or anything till after the public
participation and then you can make your
Amendment okay then and then we can vote
on it and then we do the ultimate vot
okay all right so we'll put that on hold
they need to remove oh if you could
remove I will remove the motion that I
wasn't really allowed to be making
anyway apparently by not at this time
I have to remove my second so therefore
I remove my second thank
you any other counselors any
comments mayor pro thank you um Chief I
think I hope uh you know that I'm not
advocating for
lawlessness um I do however want us to
zoom out a little bit from the tragedy
that is a stolen shopping cart and look
at the bigger picture of what we're
trying to address which is uh issues
with our unhoused population right that
is a really big issue and so it's not
that I am advocating for someone to not
be held accountable for stealing
something it's that I am saying that
this intervention on this specific Act
is targeting someone who is unhoused
thusly making it harder for them now
they're in Justice involved making it
harder for them to then be
or have a job in the future that is what
I'm asking for in this
matter um I'm someone who believes
deeply in restorative justice and
restorative justice one of the tenants
is accountability and so that is not
advocating that people just go free
willingly because they're
unhoused um I would just like us to zoom
out and look at
the intent and the impact and I think
the intent that you've brought here
you've stated it well I think the impact
is a lot different than what we're
hoping to do and in fact I think it's
making it harder for those of us who are
really committed to addressing our
homelessness issues um both of these
ordinances are are doing a bit of that I
do want to follow up slightly on what
councelor Corin was talk uh talking
about I just have one question and then
I'm going to make a couple statements um
but you know it feels like these days
every week our city manager texts us
about some sort
of um tra tragic gun violence
incident
and you know it's whether it's from
tragic homicides
to guns being stolen from a gun store to
two schools just in last week be being
on lockdown because kids took guns to
school so these to me feel like heavy
statistics around violent
crime and so I I think in the last
couple weeks you've also gotten some
feedback around response times and how
some of those things need to get better
and then you've also provided Fe
feedback that has said we're underst
staffed and so I just can you help me
understand where this kind of
enforcement then fits into the broader
work that you're trying to do to address
some of this um crime that has is having
a very serious impact on our
community mayor mayor protim and
unfortunately there are no shorts
shortage of challenges in Los cus right
now especially as it relates to Crime
what I would say is also zoom out from
there because everything is related to
everything else and there's everything's
kind of interwoven together and there's
several distinct major issues I could
point to but then they all interact with
each other just at some level and so we
can't just focus on just the violent
crime we need to and we are with a lot
of our projects like the one we started
today but when we talk about Staffing
yeah we we are short on officers not
officer positions but officers it's
difficult filling them but when we talk
about enforcement of this ordinance
we're talking about using operations to
enforce it anyways that's where I don't
use existing officers that are on the
streets we tailor and we create this
operation to deal with it so I'm not
taking officers away from 911 response
to deal with this two separate things
same thing has to be done with a lot of
the other um operations that we're doing
we're targeting a lot of things right
now all at once including violent crime
retail theft which unfortunately is
connected to this too and when the
senator mentioned that you know it was a
good thing that operation we did last
week the reality is many of those people
are the same people that we're talking
about right here there isn't a
separation not not all of them I don't
know the exact number but some of those
people are also going to be people that
we're talking about with this ordinance
and so there is this this carryover with
everything and so we have to have a very
holistic or well-rounded approach where
we're trying to tackle everything um
because it's going to take all those
different responses to even move the
needle yeah I
just think
that unfortunately that these aren't
holistic or well-rounded and I the
reason I say that is because I don't
think these were created with service
providers at the table with um Advocates
at the table right and maybe you you
invited them and they didn't want to
come but I do want to note that um I
think when we're talking about a
holistic well-rounded enforcement
approach we want to have those Folks at
the table and you're you even noted on
here we don't know yet if Community of
Hope will be able to fill the capacity
but we'll figure it out and so we're
putting a little bit the horse before
the car I always um get those wrong so I
just I I feel like this is where my sort
of disappointment is coming from for
some of these um but I just have a
couple comments I additionally wanted to
make
um I recently was somebody pointed out
to me this propublica article that came
out not too long ago and it's titled
Albuquerque this is National publication
Albuquerque is throwing out the
belongings of homeless people violating
City
policy one on a recent morning Christian
Smith ran an errand leaving a shopping
cart carrying everything she owned near
the Albuquerque New Mexico underpass
where she'd been sleeping when she
returned the cart was nowhere to be
found most of the belongings such as
clothing blankets could be easily
replaced in time but she panicked when
she realized that her Dentures acquired
after months of dental appointments were
also Gone without them Smith believed it
would be more difficult to find a job
prolonging her time sleeping on the
street it's she quote she's quoted in
here she says it's hard to eat it's hard
to talk I sound like a little kid said
the 42-year-old native New
Mexican as a result of these actions
thousands of homeless people have lost
personal property according to the
interviews with Community Advocates
service providers and those who have had
their possessions
discarded some said their belongings had
been taken by S Cruz multiple times they
described losing medication birth
certificates identification cards cell
phones Chargers tools clothing a car
title a dog kennel treasured family
photos and the ashes of loved
ones somebody said it's equivalent of
having your house burned down multiple
times a year just over and over again
you're losing everything and starting
from scratch every
time I fear that this is what we are
about to face should this pass
and I think we have to be clear that
these ordinances are
not really about helping they were about
making poor people less
visible because if it wasn't about
criminalizing it and if it was about
getting people into resources then we
wouldn't be using the criminal justice
system to address
it I also want to add a couple comments
that I think will fit here here well I
would add them at Council comments but I
think many of you will leave and so I
want to make sure that they are
heard because I've gotten a lot of
comments in recent weeks through emails
and even a little here today about that
I should care what I should care for
that I should care less about some some
groups of folks or simply that I just
don't care
enough but see I feel like I'm being
asked to care for one group of folks at
the expense of another
the truth is that I practice my empathy
muscle with intention so I have enough
capacity in me to care about many people
and many
issues me disagreeing with these policy
proposals doesn't mean our care less I
care less for
you it just means I'm really clear that
finding poor people who have a shopping
cart or finding poor people who are
standing on the street asking for money
will not make us safer
it does not address the very real
experience of crime and violence that
many of us are
experiencing we must be bold and look at
solutions that don't just rely on the
ceral system punishing the homeless
isn't Justice jail isn't
care and for folks who say that we're
doing nothing or that I'm doing
nothing I'm going to get on my soap boox
a little bit and share with you some of
the things that I have led on and that I
have passed the creation of Outreach
Court a municipal court I brought that
idea to Los
cruus this budget cycle I ensured that
we received funding for
it several months ago I proposed the
idea to take an already funded case
manager position that was for the
housing department to be transferred to
Municipal Court to move that process
along faster I led on the process to
hire
a a second municipal judge so that we
could do that more quickly and support
municipal court and just to be clear I
brought Outreach Court as a means to
divert people who were stuck in the loop
of the Criminal Justice System people
who were just in and out I didn't bring
this with the intention of creating new
laws to funnel new people through the
criminal justice
system I've LED on ensuring that we grow
Mano Mano and the community outreach
team I supported the real-time crime
Center which I do not believe is a baby
step I believe is a huge
step I will absolutely be engaging with
the legislature and the governor's
office on a fully baked and actually
thought out criminal competency
legislation that must include money for
infrastructure and must include
Behavioral Health Service Providers at
the table because by the way it did
not we've made historic investment since
I've been on the council for housing
almost 900 units will be coming alive in
the next in the in the next year I led
and fought to ensure that West Pacha was
included in our Revit revitalization
plan I helped create the crisis
intervention team that now lives under
the fire department that is tremendously
successful and has incredible folks
working at
it I will also be engaging with the drug
policy Alliance to ensure that we find
solutions to the very real fental crisis
that we are
facing we may not
agree but I do work hard in I care
deeply and I will continue to do
[Applause]
so everyone else good okay um we'll go
ahead and start with public comment uh
before we start with the public comment
uh Katrina come again but Chief story I
got to tell you
um you know I I do agree with you when
you talk about image because there is a
huge image and a shopping cart theft is
a theft and then it goes to shoplifting
then it goes to wherever else I agree
with Ben Koo with the with the Outreach
uh municipal courts and I also say
that I agree with all the text messages
we get with all the things that are
taking place and more and more it
creates um text messages from
juveniles and that's something that's
just increasing and to me that goes back
to the image it's like if our juveniles
see that people can get away with
anything then they'll do the same and
what is our future going to look like so
this isn't the answer completely but it
is a start so I thank you for pushing
these forward and uh we'll see where we
end up thank
you so those that want to speak if you
come up
uh George Pearson uh just speaking for
myself I appreciate councelor beno's
comments and I'm sort of supportive of
this but I think I would be supportive
with the amendment and uh so hopefully
you'll entertain the amendment and pass
it with that thank
you Mark svatko maybe need a time limit
some of the counselors uh in 2014 58% of
people in the Mexico voted to allow to
amend article 7 section 1 of the
Constitution of New Mexico to allow
idiots to vote if you pass this
ordinance then you will have those
people to think let me get this straight
currently if a thief steals a $250
shopping cart and caught with it there
was no consequence for that thief the
shopkeeper is out
$250 the cops see it they have probable
cause the cart is miles away from the
store whose name is clearly marked on
the cart and they do nothing to enforce
the current law so your solution is to
pass another
law you got to thank this
58% now as to the currently proposed
ordinance by the way all this holistic
stuff you're mentioning is not any
ordinance you could do it now without
this
ordinance get get the container and the
storage you can do it all now if a thief
steal a shopping cart from a business a
and packs it on the property to to for
example my my counselor Becky Kuran the
councelor representing my district then
the business a is out $250 shopping cart
and is breaking the law and is subject
to to a $500 fine the thief well we all
know nothing happens to him other than
he was able to cure car stuff around a
little easier and the counselor is also
breaking the law because that's in
section uh art chapter 18 article 3
section 1849 item 6 and the counselor is
also breaking the law because she's a
property owner and is subject to 100 to1
to $1500 Fine By the way I voted against
that 2014 proposed amendment to allow
idiots to vote in New Mexico I like to I
like my councelor to ask the the police
chief here how many people with stolen
coughing charts as the LCPD cited in the
last 12 months you stated the crime is
important all crimes important that's a
crime and you took away a free you just
this Council took away the free bags for
people to carry stuff from the grocery
store you took that away no wonder need
need
[Applause]
cards mayor and council members my name
is Kat Sanchez Las Cruses resident
District 2 I'm policy director for bold
Futures a Statewide organization working
on policy research and organizing
impacting black indigenous women and
people of color in New Mexico I'm here
in opposition to this proposed ordinance
which can be summarized by the following
out of sight out of mind because we
don't want to see how we we the
government communities individuals
myself included have failed some of the
most vulnerable of
people we can all agree that the fires
and subsequent flooding in notto County
have shown us all that we are one life
event away from to grab whatever
possessions we can survive on and depend
on our fellow New
Mexicans for and government for help and
resources and this is what some folks
are experiencing houselessness are doing
they're carrying their possessions for
their survival and asking and begging
New Mexicans for help and let's be
real one tragedy is more
palatable than the
other taking a shopping cart is
technically already stealing so the
ordinance is about extra criminalization
of people who already and very visibly
have
nothing let's just ordinance or
Municipal Court people out of our
conscious or as mentioned earlier let's
put them in
captivity
right some suggestions first since the
police already have a program for
turning in arguably more dangerous items
like Firearms allow folks with shopping
carts to turn them in for rolling carts
without the need for an ordinance second
work with Community of Hope and other
organizations for long-term Housing
Solutions in the city and the county and
third and least bureaucratic uh like uh
uh council member Beno said let's
exercise our empathy muscle we have more
empathy for a show that has multiple
Seasons about hoarding than we do for
those in our own community
[Applause]
hello my name is Liz Bennett I'm a
Public Health social worker resident of
Los Cruses and I am not embarrassed or
afraid to live here I oppose this
ordinance the cost of living aka the
price you must pay to live in our
capitalist system has increased
dramatically over the past few years
with excruciating Heights in the prices
of food and shelter largely due to known
instances of price gouging by major
corporations
according to the associate press average
rents in New Mexico have risen about 70%
since 2017 versus a 15% increase in
incomes not to mention a growing number
of climate change related disasters like
the fires and floods in riodoso also
compromise access to housing and
resources these concerns are not unique
to our community and are not going away
anytime soon given our current
trajectory as a society homelessness is
only going to become more of an issue
even if you eliminate all of the
shopping carts and all of the medians
research describes the five top causes
of homelessness being lack of affordable
housing lack of livable wage medical
debt domestic violence and untreated
mental illness criminalizing the public
existence of unhoused people struggling
to navigate these complex issues is
costly ineffective and immoral research
also suggests that Americans react to
evidence of visible poverty with higher
rates of negativity than to any other
marginalized trait including race gender
and that exposure to evidence of human
struggle or desperation commonly
provokes fear disgust and anger from
those who witness it another pillar of
our capitalist
Society it is not within the power of
the city council to single-handedly
solve the class divide prevent
homelessness addiction poverty or trauma
but it is in our power as a community to
respond skillfully with evidence-based
long-term strategies that offer support
support infrastructure and integration
to the members of our community who need
it most I understand that the council
has taken steps in that direction with a
guaranteed basic income affordable
housing and project light and I support
you to continue to do so and if you want
to ban something you can ban algorithmic
software like real page used by
corporate landlords to artificially
inflate rent rates thank you
hi again my name is Vio I live in
District One um I oppose this ordinance
Community safety and blight requires
funding human needs not enacting
inhumane and violent policies our
neighbors surviving homelessness hunger
poverty addiction or mental health
diagnoses deserve and I shouldn't have
to say this the same safety and respect
as everyone else does a person who has
to put all their belongings into a cart
who cannot afford a meal or even water
are not the enemy here and they can't
afford to pay hundreds of dollars in
fines unpaid fines result for those who
don't know in bench warrants and bench
warrants give the cops the right to
arrest that person putting someone
behind bars is not a solution being
unhoused is not a crime and everyone in
this room conflating every single bad
thing that's ever happened to them and
every crime ever committed in this city
with individuals pushing cards or
standing on medians are not just
detached from reality but also from
their own Humanity increasing LCPD
interactions with our most vulnerable
labors will only increase the already
high incidences of deadly use of force
as in the horrifying and heartbreaking
cases of Amal Ibaka and Teresa Gomez New
Mexico has the third highest rate of
cops killing civilians in the country we
don't need to invest in more
killing it's truly terrifying to watch
the most powerful and comfortable people
in our city championing policies that
only put that only punish and scapegoat
our most vulnerable community members
our friends and our families you have
the power to fund real Solutions you can
fund housing Human Services a county
hospital and I beg you to do so instead
of banging the drum of hate and
dehumanization and misinformation that
the well-off and well-funded minority of
Las crusin want to bully you into
supporting please oppose this ordinance
today thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon mayor mayor protm
counselors thank you for your time and
attention my name is Pamela Angel and
I'm the CEO of Amador Health Center
sorry I should have been drinking more
water um so I've worked at the mie
Valley Community of Hope for now for 24
years and I was at mie Valley Community
of Hope for 10 years and at Amur Health
Center for
12 plus so um so I really know the
people that come there that go there for
those 24 years we have been trying to
get a police
presence on the campus to help deter
crime to help stop people from doing
drugs on the parking lot coming into the
campus and we've never been able to get
that interest there um I live a mile
from Community of Hope and I'm very
happy to say in the 24 years I've owned
my home in that area that I have not had
any crime any theft anything I know
that's not like a lot of other people in
the city um also I know that if I were
to leave my lawnmower out in the front
yard that it would be stolen so I think
hold holding the owners of the shopping
carts accountable is a great first step
you know I think your
amendment that you proposed in will I
hope again I think that's a great first
step in this process I don't totally
oppose the whole ordinance um you should
own the you should hold the business
owners of the shopping carts accountable
to I think it's very hard to find to see
if somebody stole a shopping shopping
cart or picked it up you know as a
smaller measure I was going to suggest
doing away with B2 that it's that just
the simple possession of a shop cart be
not implemented at this time you can
always come around and do it but I think
working with the homeless providers and
finding some mechanism to help
strengthen us so we can address the
issues that people face in our community
would be terrific so please hold off um
and mono mono is great job thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon mayor and mayor Pro and
uh council members my name is Alberto
Alo and I'm a resident of Las Cruses
today I am here to speak from the heart
about our community and the way we treat
our most vulnerable members in Las
Cruses many people live paycheck to
paycheck the line between having a roof
over our heads and being on the streets
is thinner than we might like to admit
many of us could easily find ourselves
in a position of needing help yet we're
discussing measures that criminalize
those already in Desperate
situations these people are our
neighbors our friends our family they
have stories dreams and the same
inherent worth as anyone else by
treating homelessness as a crime we
strip away their dignity and Humanity
we're essentially saying that their
struggle is an eyesore not a call for
help what is most disheartening is the
lack of meaningful action to address the
real issues instead of investing in
solutions that offer support in a
pathway out of homelessness we're we're
choosing to punish those who are already
suffering this is not leadership it is a
failure to recognize our shared humanity
and responsibility that we have to one
another instead of punishment we should
be offering compassion instead of
pushing people further into margins we
should be extending a hand to lift them
up by providing access to healthcare
affordable housing and support systems
we can integrate these individuals back
into our
society the ccia quotes the problem is
not not the shopping carts it is the
people pushing them another added cost
to our business Community end quote to
that I say the problem isn't the people
who are struggling it is the lack of
support they receive under a failing
system we should not be running the city
as a business and it is time to do
better I urge you all to choose to see
the humanity in every person and be a
city that leads itself with compassion
over criminalization and community over
convenience thank you
hello good evening my name is Marita
Mahia and
closer good evening my name is Marita
Mahia and I work from Mador Health
Center I'm part of the Outreach team and
I work very closely with this population
because we take Street medicine um I
want I I had something written down but
on my phone but my phone died so I'm
going to just tell you what comes from
my heart and I am I oppose I would like
for you guys to overthink this decision
because our population that we work with
I also vote for Solutions and not
criminalizing I feel that if we had more
funds or more services for substance use
for um
Health this problem wouldn't exist
because if we get if we could get them
treated um they wouldn't be out in the
street and they wouldn't be um having
this issue I also feel that because they
are homeless um they of course they're
going to have their belongings with them
if we could have more affordable housing
or other um resources for them we would
solve that issue I also feel that I love
the idea of the storage if we could
still do that that's fantastic because
if this is avoiding people to get to
places um it would be great for them to
have somewhere free to put their
belongings until they get housed so
that's a great idea but as for the
meantime I don't think that it's fair
for them to get criminalized or the
police to spend time
on punishing them for having a cart
thank
[Applause]
you my name is Fred Huff and as you all
well know I live over in the burn Lake
area and for the last several years I've
been watching quite a few shopping carts
go through that area and I think you all
are aware that last year we I came and
talked about the encampments that were
set up there at burn
Lake and while they were there I saw a
lot of strange stuff in these shopping
carts and a lot of it was stolen stolen
goods and I asked these people I says
where do you take these stolen goods
what do you do with them oh our fence is
over at coach light end we take them
over there and sell them and so it was
basically a constant Convoy behind our
house of these shopping carts full of
stolen goods well several months ago the
police department did something about
that at the coach light in guess what
happened to the Convoy behind our
house went
away
so I think a lot of people are messing
the real point of what Chief story is
trying to do
here these and I'm going to use the word
abandon shopping carts because that's
what I've talked in my whenever I've
talked about this issue these abandoned
shopping carts that are just out there
nobody's using them they're sitting on
the side of the street maybe a good gust
of wind is going to blow it out in the
street
cause an accident these are the types of
shopping carts are the issue that has
been of real concern to me that's litter
and it's showing that we are condoning
crime of the theft of these shopping
carts so we need to put a stop to that I
encourage you support Chief story on
this and let's start bringing some
solutions to this litter and this issue
thank you
good evening now mayor um mayor proem um
city manager um distinguished Chief and
counselors again my name is Tena Sosa
Gonzales and when I'm not busy being a
mom or a nurse or a small business owner
who understands the the responsibility
of being responsible for the things that
I own as a small business owner I also
volunteer my time as um the board
president for disability rights New
Mexico and so while I don't speak on
behalf of disability rights New Mexico
I've spent the last 13 working 13 years
working in protection and adity and I
really the my thoughts around the
treatment portion I think we can
consider broadly I'm going to make the
assumption that if past is prologue that
we could be moving forward with this
today and so if that is the case I want
to elevate the discussion around things
that could be holistic um the concept of
treatment and counseling to me make
makes the assumption that everybody had
that is in this situation may need those
things and so I would say that it would
be helpful to broaden maybe the the
scope to include case management because
people may choose not to have treatment
they may choose not to have counseling
but they may choose to have some Case
Management Services and um to think
about also who is in charge of treatment
or if you go with treatment and
counseling who makes that treatment plan
and how has it ad adhered to and
elevating voice and choice because there
are many different ways to get well um
the other part of this is in my in my
work as someone who's done acute care
I've often had people come to me with
their belongings and I cannot tell you
how many times I've had to take
belongings home to be laundered um and
so I would think that if past is
prologue and you're moving forward with
these things when you're storing
people's belongings their clothing I
think as part of dignity they should
have the option to have their clothing
laundered and have the option to have a
shower and a haircut and all the things
that preserve basic human dignity um and
so it can't be an un unfound unfunded
mandate so I just want to elevate those
things it sounds like if you're moving
in the same direction that we should
talk about how to do it in a way that's
constructive and also I just want to
recognize that um mayor protm when when
Chief story mentioned that he was um had
an Outreach event I was there with my
team they were excited to be there and
mayor proem you were there and in the
arena and so the voice of the people in
the arena are the ones that we should be
listening today not the ones in the
cheap seats
[Applause]
so um I'm Dr Kyle Schumacher and I I
thought a lot about what I wanted to say
today I've relayed my many negative
experiences to to many of you over the
past several weeks so today I thought I
would tell a good story instead and one
that really closely parallels this
conversation um I will preface this by
saying I think like most folks here I am
mentally physically emotionally
exhausted by dealing with this day in
and day out um I do really resent the
allegations that myself and other
individuals here are seeking to
criminalize homelessness I think if my
actions don't speak louder than my words
here I I don't know what will um many of
you are aware that in this immediate
aftermath we were able to set up funding
for specifically for Animals belonging
to the homeless homeless population to
work on span neuter efforts and also to
provide General veterinary care a lot of
people that are here in this audience
today helped with that people that are
coming down on on both sides of the
street on this issue um it's been
enormously rewarding I'm going to tell
one story about one case um I met a
unhoused gentleman about eight weeks ago
with his dog this dog had been
unfortunately run over by a car she had
a soft tissue injury and a very small
fracture which really is very easy to
fix um the My stipulation from day one
in dealing with this projects is I will
only work with clients that come through
their case worker or their social worker
this is both that my donors are ensured
that the money stays local and that I
know that these individuals have the
opportunity to be plugged in to services
and this is exactly what happened over
the course of eight weeks of working
with this gentleman uh we were able to
get him into his disability benefits we
were able to get him plugged into
services and I can say in eight weeks I
saw such a great transformation in both
him and the dog
um long story short I released the dog
from care last week she's doing great he
is so much better off and I can't think
that this doesn't parallel exactly what
Chief story is proposing that is an
alternative to incarceration or fines
that we have opportunities for community
service and treatment thank
[Applause]
you Vic VI alobos I know what I'm doing
now um you know
again this isn't about criminalizing
this is about criminalizing homeless or
trying to you know I don't know what
you're hearing all kinds of different
sides of the story but actually
councilor Flores you you said something
and it really appealed to me when you
said it and that is that you have these
folks with a shopping cart and they have
in their mind everything they have in
that cart
right that everything that is now their
possession and they are as you said not
I think out of all the people we deal
with they are probably the most mentally
unstable because they're in such a
critical state but what happens that
instead of Chief stories officers
getting to make that first interaction
what if it's my niece right what if it's
you what if it's me that makes that
interaction and we know when people get
put into a corner right they can become
violent
they can become you know unruly they can
you you don't know what they're going to
do and honestly you don't want me I
don't want you I don't want my niece
having to be that first interaction that
first interaction needs to be a trained
officer who is not looking to put them
in prison not putting in jail he wants
to go hey you've got a dog let's see if
Dr Kyle can help right they are truly
trying to find that solution and not
trying to say like everybody's a
criminal again and I I I feel like
that's what we keep hearing over and
over again and again we're we're not the
bad people we are trying to compromise
to find solutions to to what we have and
and this guy's got him I mean he really
does have them or I wouldn't be here and
the last thing I want to say because I
do completely agree with that we have to
have Lo laws for guns but I will remind
you it was a civilian with a car gun in
his car that went to the aid of that
officer and stop that threat and try to
save the officer so keep that in mind
when you're thinking about
[Applause]
guns hello folks my name is Austin likes
I thought I might address just kind of
two ideas that we're bouncing around the
idea that theft is theft and then the
idea that this is not a question of
either or between structural violence
and kind of criminalization um theft is
theft I feel like feels like the strong
tough thing to say and yet I think we'd
all agree that it's like a really dark
philosophy that looks at someone who has
stolen food to eat and sagely utters
theft is theft we make distinctions
between theft all the time and that's no
more clear than it is in the fact that
this proposal for an ordinance exists at
all um if theft is just theft then we
have all the tools already with the
existing ordinances to take care of this
but no additional kind of consent to
further criminalize this is what's being
asked for it's not being asked to treat
theft as theft it's asking for
additional structural stuff to be you
know to further criminalize a crime that
specific people and vulnerable people
commit so the idea then that we can do
both further criminalization and
combating structural violence is to me
uh silly in this way because this is the
very stuff of structural violence this
is what it is um please look for other
ways to address these issues outside of
further criminalization please look for
other ways it's extremely clear to me
that the motivator behind this is the
problem that cited that this creates an
appearance issue for Los cruus and yeah
I agree that a lot of this stuff is
pretty ugly to see out there we don't
get to just sweep it away we don't get
to just pretend that it's not there or
to try and hide it and jail our way out
of this or to criminalize our way out of
this those types of solutions don't work
please look for other solutions to this
thank you
[Applause]
hello again my name is Lisa parrot and
I'm a resident of district 6 I stood
before you during the work session on
this ordinance and asked the question if
a homeless person steals a shopping cart
we are to look the other way that if I
steal the same shopping cart I should be
arrested simply because I have a home
the day my husband was talking with the
manager of Best Buy when a man pushed a
65in color TV out the door with a
shopping cart without paying um should
my husband have turned right around and
gone back and gotten him one um the
manager told my husband if he had done
anything to have followed the man to get
the TV back he would have immediately
been
fired everyone who rightfully purchases
iems and pay for them deserves to not to
have to pay for what someone else steals
nor should business owners be forced to
take the loss we're not saying being
homeless is a crime we are saying that
being a criminal is a
crime please support Chief stories well
thought out and prosed ordinance thank
you God bless
[Applause]
hello again my name is Liz Coyle but I'm
actually speaking on behalf of IET
Gutierrez she is the community outreach
leison down at Community of Hope um and
she says this I'm opposed to this
ordinance because it it is
redundant after speaking with some of
our clients who are being affected by
this ordinance already because we are
having
some interactions where the police are
coming down to our clients and helping
them get rid of their carts most of them
have actually had really good
experiences however many of them have
also lost a lot of their stuff one of
them was a guy in a
wheelchair you know he didn't have any
good other
options um excuse me this ordinance will
create more obstacles for our clients
when it comes to getting housed because
of course any interaction
with a Criminal system does decrease
your CH your ability to get housed or
get a
job right now it's warm it's really nice
to think about carrying all your stuff
in a backpack but by the time it gets
cold you'll need three blankets one for
under you and then two to wrap around uh
to to keep from freezing by touching the
ground so um those those guys can't
usually even get on the bus right now
cuz it's too many um
bags so if they can't really get their
grocery if they can't have any wheeled
object right I I agree that we should
have an option for them to carry
stuff I'm sorry I got distracted and
stopped reading okay she says
that this ordinance is meant to reduce
our our blight Problem by hiding
it um those grocery carts that go down
to the Walmart bus stop are usually left
there they don't have enough employees
to go get
them okay thank you thank you
[Applause]
hello major city council members I am
Migel pal I'm one of the supervisors for
uh well I work for the Mia Valley commun
Hope I'm one of the supervisor for uh
the mono Mano
program and
uh I take these people to work every day
and I get to know them little by little
by little working with
them I'm asking is for council members
and members of the community to see the
other
side of the of the coin of the homeless
community and not only what the media
shows and not only see them as an
statistic number in your
computers but as a human being side as
well some of the people are verying the
lost
everything and all they have is what's
on under cars and their
tents and for them to get fine on top of
that for violation of an ordinance is I
think it's like a
stepping down at them more than what
they already
are and instead of criminalize them for
possession of uh the shopping cart I
think if we can find a alternative
solution like any donation of a portable
plastic box card or something they can
put their stuff in in there you know cuz
all they have I seen people carrying the
ashes of their relatives and the last
thing they have there is losing them
over and over again when we have to do
our
job and I think that's
it thank
[Applause]
you mayor council one
Garcia I keep hearing the term quote the
most vulnerable referring to the
homeless and the interesting part is
that the truly most vulnerable are The
Unborn in the womb waiting to be
dissected why is it the same who defend
the homeless and call the most
vulnerable turn away from The Unborn I
know it looks it's a boring topic I
understand political hypocrisy is what I
call it we need to think of the victims
they can be Walmart or the taco truck in
a parking lot until we stop enabling
crime our society won't survive look at
Walmart Lowe's and the many small
businesses that look like prisons this
is not right I personally don't believe
or agree that the small businesses
should be spending more money to spend
to protect themselves because we as
customers end up paying for it but this
is a step in the right direction so
please support dis ordinance
[Applause]
good evening my name is lindsy Davis I'm
a longtime or resident of Las Cruses
long time not compared to others but I'm
also a social worker in this community
today I want to express my opposition to
the proposed shopping cart ordinance
instead of addressing the cause causes
and conditions that lead to people
pushing their belongings down the street
in a shopping cart this ordinance
criminalizes acts of desperation and
exacerbates the impact of untreated
mental health and substance use problems
in our community as someone who lives
downtown there is rarely a day that I
don't see an abandoned shopping cart
outside my house or on my way to work
I'm not saying we don't have a problem
we absolutely do I'm saying that handing
out Petty misdemeanors and making
business owners responsible for shopping
cart retrieval is is not a pathway to
treatment and housing and that is what
this population needs as taxpayers we
either pay now or we pay later it is way
cheaper to house and to treat someone
than to incarcerate them not to mention
raise their kids in foster
care it is also cheaper to pay social
service professionals such as myself and
many people in this room for targeted
Outreach and crisis response Services
compared to paying law enforcement to
sit shopping carts when they could be
out fighting real
crime support for these this ordinance
these ordinances means valuing literal
shopping carts over the people pushing
them I want to leave you with
several last comments shopping cart
theft is not a Gateway crime it's an act
of
desperation secondly it's not just about
service availability which we heard a
little bit about earlier it's about
accessibility routine Medical Behavioral
Health Services are not accessible to
this community we need specialized
services in
Outreach lastly Criminal Justice System
involvement should not be a prerequisite
for treatment or Services let law
enforcement do law enforcement let
Social Service professionals do social
services thank
[Applause]
you good evening now mayor and
counselors again again I'm Mika lakad
among other things I'm a state
representative but I'm also a parent I'm
a soccer coach I'm a voter I'm someone
who was raised by this community and
does my best to raise my children here
today I'm so grateful that Las crus is
still has a vibrant local media scene
and I listen to public radio and read
our local paper every day and I'm
grateful for the journalists that are
here but I first read about this
proposal In The Sun News and I had to
read it a couple of times to see if I
was missing
something my kids and I talk about
what's happening in our lives and in
this community every day and when I
worked to explain to them what this
proposal was all about my children who
are about to be 13 and 17 turned to me
and said wait I don't get it how does
taking away shopping
carts change someone's
life how does taking away shopping carts
mean that they won't be
homeless anymore or is the language we
use
unhoused and I didn't get it
either I spent the summer in Santa Fe in
advance of a special legislative
session and like counselor bomo here I
showed up because I care a lot I run for
office because I care a
lot but what we've seen play out these
last several months mostly in the media
is political
propaganda we aren't having honest
conversations about families and their
struggles we aren't sitting down to
speak respectfully to each other about
solutions that might make
sense for better or worse I got to hear
from our chief here and I appreciate
your service in press conferences next
to the governor after never having an
invitation to be in conversation with
you all about the solutions and insight
and future we all deserve so thank you
and I stand in opposition to this
[Applause]
ordinance um thank you my name is Quinn
Cooper um and uh I didn't initially plan
on talking on this uh I introduced
myself to the council last year I had my
truck stolen and I was really aggravated
about it the person who stole my truck
was caught let out a week later
burglaries every month before and after
and so it's very frustrating situation
um I've actually been the victim of
petty theft three times since that's
happened so I appreciate if anybody has
a reason to be frustrated with the the
property crime here in Los cruus I have
you know that that right to to be
frustrated and I hear that uh in the
audience as well and I did go to coffee
with the cops I uh I met a lot of
officers and I realize that they share
our frustrations and if anybody's trying
to approach this in a compassionate
manner it's uh it's officers on the
floor some you guys don't get enough
credit for that um that being
said the safety public issues that have
been cited as as a reason justification
for this you're already getting them
with the sidewalk or the what you just
passed um there's there's no real Health
argument with this one and you know I
what I what I see this is kind of the
implication is that you've got people
here pushing everything they've got to
their name in 100 degree weather here in
Los cruus and we're just going to come
shake them down at for for whatever
reason I don't find that that's a
justifying reason to stop somebody or to
create a stop it seems like it'll create
more junk in the pipeline they've got a
lot you guys have a lot I understand
that you guys are frustrated and this is
what I see in this I see frustration and
uh but I don't see an approach that that
would take care of anything uh my
background my degree is in nutrition and
I kind of think like if I was to make an
equivalency it's trying to take like
epinephrine so that you can eat peanuts
that's what this proposal looks like to
me so thank you
[Applause]
good afternoon again my name is Michael
frames first I wanted to sincerely thank
Council McClair matis Graham and mayor
thank you for listening to us you have
no idea the impact that has made on me I
am very grateful for that
and the scenario a hand out or a handup
I'm a big fan of a handup we need to
help people how do you help them they
need a sense of
selfworth and I'd like to talk
proactively right
now yes we have a lot of unhoused people
on the
streets as we spoke before how many
people are that one event away from
being homeless themselves I'm a home
builder I'm a
construction one house that we build
takes approximately 200 working days on
average five employees 8 hours a day or
one house I hope you all received my
email that I sent this last
week I have constantly gotten comments
from clients refusing to move to Los
cruus because of our issues here this
ordinance is going to help clean up our
streets yes these are
people but also we have a responsibility
where those people that are working hard
they have a sense of self wealth and
compassion on what they do if we lose
out on these future people moving to Los
cruus we're going to lose jobs it's
going to create more unhoused people
let's think proactively and work
together and I beg you council
members this is super
important and this ordinance it may seem
Petty but it's not when Chief story
first started speaking about this I had
no idea the impact it really had you all
have a huge opportunity to make a big
impact on our community please I beg you
think about
[Applause]
this um yep it's me again I'm Gwen Stacy
I'm a res of fos cusis and I oppose this
bill on the grounds that it just seems
like it's a very confused bill it is
trying to do way too many things at once
it's simultaneously trying to place a
new onus on just the ownership of a
shopping cart that's confusing I thought
we lived in a country um where we let
under the presumption of innocent until
proven guilty and a large problem that
we have in our community is that these
are abandoned shopping carts um and
trying to make that distinction between
stolen ones and abandoned ones you need
probable cause and I think we should be
basing laws off of that instead also
it's trying to put place that in
conjunction with a bill that also um it
includes a lot of Provisions for small
businesses um and it also has a lot of
Provisions around you know like storage
for stuff and a lot of it just feels
like a PR stunt to try and say hey we're
not actually ant oring the homeless or
the unhoused populations of Los cus look
at all this cool stuff we're doing like
keeping their stuff in a warehouse for
90 days expecting them to magically get
housing and then just throw it all away
eventually um I feel like this bill is a
waste of time I feel like it's an insult
to my intelligence it's also based on
felicious reasoning that theft is theft
and that if we just make one small
exception everything's going to devolve
into chaos and that's just not true
that's not how logic works so we can
easily make distinctions that's why a
fallen Branch at Young Park is free to
pick up Andy Wood owel costs .14 at Home
Depot it's also why there's difference
between self-defense and murder because
we can clear we can make clear
distinctions and we can make exceptions
based on legal jurist Prudence that
doesn't involve devolving into mere
chaos thank you
[Applause]
hello uh my name is hores Suarez and
I'll be deferring my time to Nicole
Martinez no we weren't deferring any
times today so if you want to speak you
have two minutes if not Nicole you have
two minutes but everyone's getting two
minutes wishes to speak
my name is Donna
Striker I have tried to reach across the
aisle and I did go to a meeting and
everything we said was shut down and it
was about housing and we tried to reach
across the aisle and we were shut down
and we were told no and no and no but I
want to hear about we need to reach
across the aisle because we've tried to
reach across the aisle and talk about
something before it was even an issue
and we were told no
I'm tired of being told I'm
criminalizing homelessness I see your
t-shirts that's not impartial you're
supposed to be impartial that's part of
your oath I support Jeremy's story I
support the chief of police I support
our our police and I think it's a step
and if it doesn't work change it but
you're never willing to try anything
that isn't your way it's your way or the
highway I don't appreciate that you
don't have my back but I have yours
[Applause]
good afternoon Tim
Jenkins I am actually outraged and
appalled by the comments from certain
city certain members from city council
stating that she believes that we are
making up these statistics and that we
don't leave our houses and we are
brainwashed how is it possible that we
are the ones that are brainwashed when I
personally have stood before you every
single Monday since we lost officer
Hernandez and presented pictures and
videos and countless amounts of evidence
before you all to clearly show that we
are in a world of trouble here in Los
Cruses how is it that we are the ones
that are brainwashed when we when one of
when our officers are pulling dead
bodies out of the dumpsters this weekend
at the donian apartments how is it that
we are the ones that are brainwashed
when we when I'm am witnessing homeless
people taking showers in the restaurant
at the Los compost restaurant this
weekend how is it that we are the ones
that are brainwashed when we witness
when I personally witnessed 18 homeless
people within a three mile stretch of
lman 14 of them having shopping carts
full of stuff three of and when a three
M stretch and 18 of them total with a
naked woman running up the street next
to the bowling alley how is it possible
that certain members of city council
refuse to help support us in making l
Cru is a safer City for our families and
for our childr if certain members of the
city council cannot find it in their
hearts to fight for us we the people
then we ask that you please remove
yourself from city council because you
refuse to do the job that you were
elected to do but as for me and my
family we support the chief of police in
every effort that he's done to make this
place a safer city thank you over here
Council mayor Chiefs and Marie Sanchez
with msia Valley Community of Hope I'm
here to voice my opposition to this
ordinance I've sat through many city
council sessions where business owners
yelled at this Council and law
enforcement to do something about the
repeatedly broken windows the needles in
the park feces in their storefronts I
heard the constant to LCPD do something
do your job and from that we have an
ordinance for business to retrieve their
shopping carts and median issues
retrieving shopping carts will not
repair or stop Windows from being
broken the ordinance says it won't take
carts from people but I have a hard time
believing that since this is already a
regular practice of
LCPD a few weeks ago they did just that
they took a woman's documents and
belongings and never gave them back they
stole her belongings are we really
fighting stealing with stealing was this
the best use of anyone's time figuring
out what a person's value to items
should be and then deciding the person
should go to court and get ordered to
Services would you want me to come into
your house and decide what was trash and
what was
not ordinance says business owner can't
confiscate but officers can and do it's
also been presented to council that
these ordinances are about percep
less carts seen means less crime
perceived less eyes sours in our
community however it's crucial to
understand that for those using carts
it's not about flaunting a crime but
about survival at their lowest point
pushing these carts through streets and
gravel under constant public scrutiny is
not comfortable it's
dehumanizing eliminating the carts does
not eliminate
homelessness one argument suggests these
measures will Channel people towards
serves yet Services already exist
ordinance are not having Services hasn't
stopped people from using carts so just
because somebody needs toore their
belongings you are assuming that they
all need mental health and substance use
treatment you must know that that is not
true this is a flaw this is flawed and
it is a mistake
[Applause]
mayor and councel Nicole Martinez from
Community of Hope I was really hopeful
we'd have more time since we were one of
the partners that were listed and chief
gave me that respect to have time and
talk to him so that's unfortunate I
don't want to waste more time about that
but um we really can't have these
conversations without having more
housing which we just don't have enough
of if person had a house then they we
wouldn't be talking about them having to
have their stuff in shopping carts and
there are other cities that we could
emulate that have programs where they
have people that uh in within their
departments um that go up and clean up
shopping carts just like monoi Mano does
and I suggest that we could continue
using monoi Mano not 100% of the time
but we would keep doing that to help our
city and also so that businesses aren't
getting fined for this and I I do have
some serious concerns about the
enforcement because this is all left up
to the discretion of Judge and officers
where it says in that ordinance they may
impose that so what if they refuse the
community service option or what if they
start it and they don't fulfill it will
they get fine will they go to jail how
does this actually play out who is
tracking that um and how can you prove
that somebody actually stole the cart
like we talked about earlier maybe they
did just go grocery shopping somebody
did and then then they didn't have a car
and so they left that cart at the bus
stop and then somebody who was unhoused
found that cart and put their belongings
in it and now the business and or that
person could get fined that logic just
doesn't make sense here should these
pass again you're leaving this open to
interpretation and I feel really sorry
for the city Department that has to en
Force this and actually look over the
plan because there are more important
things like housing and serving the
nonprofits that are trying to help and
be part of these Solutions um again
we're talking about people with the
least amount of power and resources um
and several times uh in preparation for
this I heard take pictures of them make
it personal how personal do you think it
was for every person that had their
picture posted on
Facebook there is where Social Service
best practices become troubled by law
enforcement methods I've heard that we
can couple this with compassion but I
have not seen that in this is this what
the city means by Kino that we join the
less than 1% of cities who have a plan
like this and officers have been
confiscating stuff and they tell our
clients walk away walk away I'm asking
you walk away from this
[Applause]
plan mayor counselors my name is Daniel
Williams I'm a policy Advocate at the
American civil liberties Union of New
Mexico and as you know we have also
serious concerns about this proposed
ordinance all of which have been raised
both from the Das and from public
comment tonight I think one of the
things that is most troubling to me
broadly is the suggestion that this
ordinance is a tool to get people access
to services and at the ACLU and I
personally we are strongly in support of
getting people who need Services the
services that they need
I think the question comes in the use of
the criminal legal system as the
mechanism to deliver those Services as
Nicole just said it's certainly not a
guarantee from the way the ordinance is
written that this will lead to the
provision of services it's also not a
certainty that we need the criminal
legal system to be the mechanism by
which people get Services the criminal
legal system is inherently ill suited to
be the mechanism by which people access
the services that they need
if it is our desire to help people get
access to case management to help people
get access to behavioral health
treatment to get alternative means to
store and transport their belongings
those are things we can do without
relying on police and the criminal
courts to achieve those goals so I urge
you to oppose this ordinance and to
think about ways to provide those
services without Reliance on the
criminal legal system thank you no
my name is Beth Bardwell thank you so
much for uh being here for so long um
today um I have lived here for 30 years
and I've experienced property crime in
this town but no not one was committed
by homeless person I shop downtown
including Albertson's and Walgreen and
sometimes I feel like I live in an
alternate reality when I come to these
City Council meetings because I just
want to say I have never felt threatened
by a homeless person um we're not
talking about theft we're talking about
a homeless person who uses a shopping
cart to store their belongings and I
find it ironic that we fill our single
family homes with so much stuff many of
us have to have storage units we have so
much stuff and yet we take so much
Community time and resources to
criticize and make it a crime for
homeless people who put their minimal
belongings in a shopping cart blows my
mind we're not talking about voluntary
treatment we're talking about ordering
treatment or else you may face a fine
and incarceration where is the evidence
that coerced treatment is effective
where are the mental health counselors
that say coer treatment is effective
here today they're not and if they and
and the criminal ordinance this shopping
cart ordinance is not connected to
housing nor can it be realist
realistically because there are 3,000
people in line today in Los cruus for a
Housing
Voucher we have a housing
shortage um and I want to emphasize for
all of you that the current realized Los
Cruis revisions to the land development
code the way they were revi revised on
June 10th significantly limit where you
can build multifam housing in this town
so on the one hand you're criminalizing
and on the other hand you're saying but
we're not going to build more multi
family housing I stand in opposition to
this to this ordinance
[Applause]
good evening my name is Christopher
Brown I'm a resident of Los cruus and a
member of The Community of Hope board
I'd like to make three major issues
before I ask you to ReSound only reject
this ordinance the first concerns impact
on business owners the ordinance will
require businesses to develop a shopping
cart plan which is incredibly convoluted
and complicated or hire security people
they can't afford to keep the shopping
carts or do both that is illogical the
second what is the impact on an unhoused
population the most vulnerable people in
our community hold their possessions in
a shopping cart they put their companion
animals in the shopping cart to keep
them safe and we're now going to pass an
ordinance that criminalizes that
incarceration fine forced court ordered
treatment they may not need do we really
want to put that kind of burden on the
police department at the Town Hall the
governor had Chief story said we're
trying to s this problem I don't have
enough resources I don't have enough
officers so let's put more work on them
the last thing I'd like to talk about is
to break the argument that homelessness
and our criminal justice crisis in this
town are linked violent crime property
crime are predominantly not driven by
people that keep their stuff and carts
and protect their animals it's ludicrous
I Call On You to reject this ordinance
and to work together to advance efforts
to build more housing and to serve the
needs of our hun housee population thank
[Applause]
[Music]
you mayor City counsellors my name is
Stella Sosa Gonzalez and I just wanted
to say that unhoused people are people
too and if you can't help them please
don't hurt
them thank
you hi I actually came unprepared my
name is Patricia himz I used to be a
member of the community I was pushed out
of the community I'm here to speak
regarding the car ordinance that Chief
story um has proposed and I feel that a
lot of us have been victims of crime and
also as far as people thinking that
we're criminalizing the carts we're not
um some of the C issues were related to
Crime but some of the people are
mentally Unfortunately they need some
type of
Rehabilitation and I agree with that and
I think that this is not a matter of
criminalizing um those people it's a
matter of getting them rehabilitated
instead of enabling them like some
people the community are doing thank
[Applause]
you City councilors and mayor I'm Sarah
Smith although some people in
organizations are concerned that this
ordinance will criminalize homelessness
and Target the most vulnerable in our
community that is not the case and fails
to look at the bigger picture it is
already illegal to steal shopping carts
and to be in possession of stolen
property many of the most vulnerable in
our community cannot take steps to get
themselves into a better situation their
mental health problems and drug
addiction have trapped them into a cycle
of
self-destruction housing food clothing
and services are being provided in an
effort to help those living on the
streets yet it is clear that overall
these strategies are not working without
accountability without some mechanism to
ensure people actually engage in
Rehabilitation and treatment nothing
will change for all too many of the
homeless as they continue their drug use
and ruin this ordinance actually has the
potential to finally help the people
living on the streets instead of
enabling them to continue destroying
their own lives and the safety of the
families of lost cruus rather than just
imposing jail time or fines that cannot
be paid like the existing laws that are
already in effect this new ordinance
will provide a better alternative
because it increases our ability to get
people into treatment for drug addiction
and mental health illnesses instead of
waiting and hoping that people will get
the help they need this ordinance
provides a direct Pathway to treatment
as a form of community service
I think of 34-year-old Heather kro as an
example of someone who may be able to be
helped by these ordinances from looking
at public records Heather is a repeat
offender with over 75 arrests mostly
related to trespassing I have seen
Heather wandering the streets of Los
crusis she clearly needs help I can only
imagine what the criminal element does
to her on the streets at night given her
serious inability to care for herself
she desperately needs help in the form
of treatment in a safe place I hope that
you will have the courage to try
something new and vote Yes so that
repeat offenders like Heather will
finally get the treatment that they need
thank
[Applause]
you okay that looks like all the public
comments um Chief story you had
something you want to add anything
before we I I did mayor counsel just a
few things that came up during public
comment um one the case management that
was brought up that is a good point it
is provided through SOS just in general
not necessarily specifically to this but
if someone just needs help getting a
driver's license an ID card getting
reenroll a Medicaid that's all part of
what they're doing there um another
point you know when it comes to
interactions between officers and those
who are homeless there are tens of
thousands of interactions already we
talk about the fear of increasing them
the goal is to decrease them we are
already our officers know people on the
streets by name all of them because we
are the ones who are left to deal with
them and interact with them over and
over and the vast majority of those are
not enforcement actions or negative
experiences per se but we are the ones
that are already having all these
interactions um I also want to say that
I met with most the people here that I
met with Nicole many times I've met with
Daniel and ACLU many times I've never
turned down an invitation to meet with
anybody we've had good conversations we
obviously do not agree on everything we
find common ground where we can and we
have disagreement on the other issues
but I have talked about these issues
with a lot of people the issue is that
there's extremes I I can only compromise
so much I feel like I have been
extremely reasonable but a lot of people
want either All or Nothing All harm
reduction or no harm reduction the
reality is it has to be a balanced
approach and this Council has invested
in the root cause solutions they have
invested in affordable housing and many
of those issues but they do take time
and I'm not arguing against that we have
to continue that and most of the people
in this room would say we need to invest
in affordable housing we need to invest
in additional services for mental health
treatment and substance use but we also
can't wait 25 years for those things to
materialize before we do something else
it has to be a balance approach where we
address it from both sides of the
coin I'll I'll leave it at that
mayor thank you
Tre Brad was there something you were
going to add or you you're good
good mayor I have a question now that
he's been promoted I'm sorry go ahead
councelor Grant so chief Andor Brad um
understanding that we're going to have
an amendment proposed can either or both
of you comment on what that would mean
functionally to I apologize I forget the
section number but thank you mayor
council Graham in my opinion if you
alter the ordinance as it exists you
basically make it ineffective you look
at the cities of those 100 cities that
have in ordinance the ones that do not
have both sides of the coin again both
sides of the approach the balance
approach are not successful in
mitigating the issue so I I think if you
amend it and take that out it it doesn't
accomplish what we're trying to
accomplish they're both
important all right thank you Chief we
remove section B other prohibitions in
its entirety from the from this
[Music]
ordinance a
second Christine
this is on the motion to remove section
18-49 B in its
entirety councelor McClair no councelor
matis no councelor Graham no councelor
cran yes councelor flutes no councelor
benom yes mayor no motion
[Applause]
fails yeah for the
this is on the motion to approve
ordinance
3079 councelor McClair yes councelor
matis yes councelor Graham yes councelor
cran no councelor flutes no councel bomo
no mayor yes motion passes
okay next on the agenda we have board
appointments
um this one just has to be read
councelor Karan appoints Kyle Jenkins to
the Parks and Recreation Advisory
Board a notice of two proposed
ordinances
uh the first one is Council bill number
25-9 ordinance number 380 and ordinance
approving a zone change from r1a single
family medium density to R2
multi-dwelling low density property
located at 2795 North r Road Runner
Parkway Bring It
Forward the next one is Council bill
number
2510 ordinance number 3081 an ordinance
approving a zone change from A2 rural
agriculture 1981 zoning code to C3
commercial high density the subject
property uh encompassing 1.89 plus acres
is located at 3098 East University
Avenue bring it
forward next is the city
council uh member board reports and
comments I'll start with Council
CL I wasn't going to speak I was I'm
also tired like everyone else on this uh
dis um I just keep thinking about um
someone who had commented earlier that
everyone needs a chance and ultimately
my decision was based on the idea that I
do think we can give them a chance with
some of these ordinances and some of
these changes um I agree that LCPD
shouldn't be the one doing this
ultimately we should be working toward
other options for this but we work with
the imperfect systems that we
have and I am just taking a chance that
we are doing things like the diversion
courts that will do a lot of things that
we can practically do so thank
you thank you Council M Council m
I I just want my fellow counselors to
know that I will support all the other
services when it comes to housing
Outreach programs mental health centers
that need to be built here
Behavioral Studies we also need to um
take care of the unhoused and I think
again I I trust Chief story I trust the
police department and our Public Safety
as well as the fire department with the
light program and I commend on on again
the mono Mano program we could expand
that do more of that but I I think this
is a positive uh as Chief story said a
baby
step but it's still a step toward making
the city look better and safer we're not
hiding people we're helping people thank
you councelor grant
I said it all before so hard pass
Council Cent I just really quickly want
to give folks a reminder that tomorrow
night between 5 and 7 no Thursday night
sorry between 5 and 7 um at the NMSU
campus in room 225 at Harman Jac Jacobs
learning there's a healthcare
consolidation public meeting which is
all about uh what happens when
Healthcare institutions are Consolidated
or closed or go bankrupt or bankrupted
by a private Equity so I would hope that
folks might consider um attending those
meetings again Thursday at 8 p.m in at
NMSU um 7 P.M no 500 P PM see it's
really late I literally have the times
here 5 to 7.m on August 8th um at NMSU
um to the other discussion I think
um the I just want to really name
that um the types of rhetoric that are
employed in these populist
conversations um populism generally sews
the seeds
for what I think is a
really um problematic approach to our
future and so I think um I just want to
go on record to suggest that uh I will
always raise a red flag when people make
populist arguments I think that as we
consider things like criminalizing the
poor um if we don't see the paths of of
rhetoric that come after um we're in
really big trouble so I I just want to
make an argument that that these
decisions today I hope they don't open
the door to to uh folks believing that
authoritarian answers are the best
because they aren't ever and they harm
our communities and so
I'm disappointed but I understand
um that folks feel like they want us to
do something and so again I would just
urge us to consider what the impacts of
of populism as as a political strategy
might have for our for our integrity
um that's it thanks
I think I said everything I said during
the meeting I'm exhausted I'm toast and
everybody should go home thank
you may BR thanks uh mayor I think given
the commitment to pedestrian safety that
was made here today I hope that mayor
that you add a vision zero item to a
work session agenda so that we can get
real about pedestrian safety and
actually have data driven solutions for
pedestrian and so I really hope that you
add that tour workk session agenda um
again I'd want to uh have us do
something around Park impact fees and
bring a set of stakeholders together to
figure that out mayor um that's not just
at a work session but that deserves a
good working
group and then I also hope that everyone
here today who voted in favor of um
criminalizing homelessness and poverty
that you also publicly talk about the
importance of projects like Amad
Crossing
uh I know that many of the folks who
were here today who were wanting these
to be passed uh oppose things like
housing and Amador Crossings and so I
really hope that you all take the time
especially you mayor and Chief story to
talk publicly about why Amador Crossings
is important and then lastly you know a
commenter said today
about um the sometimes it feels like we
live in alternate realities and I have I
have felt that too um you know I also
I'm scared for my 16-year-old kid who I
had to get takeout for here a few
minutes ago um I'm scared that a kid's
going to walk into her school with a gun
and shoot up the school I'm scared for
our safety because
people
who oppose me so badly leave
voicemails threatening to kill me I am
scared for our safety because on your
social media page people joke about
breaking into my house those things to
me feel deeply scary as well especially
when a lot of us here are committed to
um working hard working hard to find
Solutions even when we disagree um we're
still working hard to find Solutions so
um I just want to lift that up because
it is um just truly disappointing today
okay mayor protim uh yeah we can move
forward with that work session and also
I believe with the realiz there's also a
section there that will be addressed
with the park impact fees or will move
be moved for uh another discussion
separate so it is going to be addressed
and um you know I think we all want the
same thing we want L crues to thrive and
we want L crues to be safe I think this
is the first step today in in public
safety but in order to really have
well-being in our community we need all
those other aspects to come and we all
need to come and work together to to to
stretch and and and for the community to
come together whether it's it's the
housing or whether it's a treatment and
things like that that we need for our
community is to get that sense of
well-being but uh I believe this is a
first step in public safety and then we
move from there so a lot of work ahead
of
us uh city manager
uh thank you mayor city council I I'll
keep this quick um I had three pages of
notes but didn't know it was going to
take this long so I'll reduce it to
three items that uh really uh really is
important um we have National Night Out
Las crues Police Department is inviting
the community to celebrate National
Night Out this Tuesday which is tomorrow
August 6 from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
downtown um since George Pearson made it
uh this far uh he deserves uh one of the
responses Sonia and Public Works um has
uh already reached out to J Paul Taylor
um Academy to meet and review
intersection we will provide an update
once we have more information also our
facilities team is working on next steps
for the wi building uh just to make
everyone aware there was a roof project
that was uh finally completed last year
so kudos to Public Works and facilities
for making that happen so more to on
that and then I would just say the last
thing on fire uh this this morning
around 10:00 a.m.
firefighters from our fire department
rescued and transported an occupant from
a structur fire on Bon BT Lane the
patient was last reported as stable with
severe injuries and expected to be
transported to a burn center in leic
Texas the investigation is ongoing um
thank you to the fast action and work of
our firefighters and their continued
dedication to our
community thank you all
motion to adjourn
second this is on the motion to adjourn
the meeting councelor McClair yes
councelor matis absolutely councelor
Graham yes councelor cran yes councelor
fles yes councelor benl yes mayor yes
spe