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[Music]
you're
on all right good evening we have Quorum
so we will go ahead and call this
meeting to order welcome to the Los
cruus Planning and Zoning commission
meeting um for uh October
22nd um one just uh Point um or I guess
announcement to make um which you could
probably tell if you're in the room but
we are broadcasting live again um via
the city's website and YouTube channel
also uh want to extend um a thank you to
staff who've been working on that for um
some time so thank you very much for uh
getting us back on air I'm sure uh um
members of the public will really
appreciate that um so with that uh
looking for um approval of the minutes
from the September meeting pending uh no
changes need to be
made Mr chair I'll make the motion to
approve the minutes as presented Ed I
second we'll do roll call commissioner
thirston
yes uh well you guys are out of
order commissioner Smith
yes commissioner
Costa I have to look around for just a
minute
yes I'm sorry commissioner commissioner
Murray sorry yes thank
you commissioner Kaiser yes thank
you um any conflicts of interest from
the commission this evening um as stated
last meeting I do have a conflict of
interest for um old business 8.1 and
8.2 okay so I believe with that we'll
ask him to step down from the dis but he
can stay in the room
should leave the room okay so when we
get to those items you'll have to leave
the room and then we'll call you back
in um we have no
postponements um so looking for a motion
to uh accept tonight's
agenda I move that we accept tonight's
agenda I
second commissioner thirston yes
commissioner Smith yes
commissioner Co commissioner Costa
yes commissioner Murray yes and chair
yes thank
you all right moving on to public
participation is there anybody in the
audience tonight that wishes to speak on
an item that is not on tonight's
tonight's agenda can I get a show of
hands seeing none uh we will come back
um and we have no consent agenda items
this evening so we will move into um old
business uh we will need to suspend the
rules to hear items 8.1 and
8.2 together to hear the presentation
together and then we'll unsuspend to
take separate
votes um so commissioner Murray if you
would like to recuse
yourself does he need to state that
he's okay no we'll come get you when
we're we're done
so I need a motion to suspend the rules
to hear items 8.1 and 8.2 together I
make a
motion as presented to suspend the
rule
yes a
second commissioner thirston yes
commissioner Smith
yes commissioner Costa yes
commissioner Murray isain and Kaiser
commissioner Kaiser
yes all right we'll turn it over to
staff for a
presentation Mr chairman Commissioners
Vincent benegas inter and planner for
the record uh this evening we're here to
discuss um a planned unit development
concept plan and Road Improvement waiver
request
um involving case
000012 that uh is for the concept plan
itself and the road Improvement waiver
is 24 CS4
00100 just uh for some of you
that have uh heard me talk to this issue
I apologize but for those who are new it
might benefit you a little bit just to
understand what a PUD is uh we don't
deal with those all too often
uh so I thought I'd put together a
little slide that basically compares the
Pew process to the traditional uh
development process uh when we're
talking about the subdivision of land
you're dealing with uh two processes
again PUD traditional under the
traditional you have the master plan uh
preliminary plat and final plat
construction uh drawings follow uh under
the Pud you have a concept plan which
serves as the master master plan you
have a final site plan which serves as
the preliminary plat and the final plat
is the same uh the Pud uh complies with
growth management policy that is
identified in Elevate Las crus
comprehensive plan but it allows
flexibility in terms of uh the
development proposal and typically
speaks to land use uh densities
intensities uh I can speak to
architecture open space building
Arrangements Etc a host of issues that
you typically might not get involved
with through the traditional
process
um in essence what staff has typically
stated uh in the past and you several uh
instances is that this process can be a
foundation by which a developer uh
develops their own little uh zoning code
if you will to speak to how property
will be developed and it can be used not
only for your large subdivision type uh
land area but it can also be site
specific going back to Sunrise Mesa in
terms of what we're dealing with uh the
property is located at 5689 Porter Drive
it is the northwest corner of Central
Avenue on Porter Drive um it's part of
an
original PUD under the same name uh had
a separate uh concept plan which which
was approved in
2007 uh due to uh the lack of
development on that portion uh which is
north of central uh on Central Avenue
the concept plan expired uh the zoning
remained in place but the concept plan
expired and so now they're coming
forward to resubmit a new proposal to be
considered this evening uh the property
is currently undeveloped it's bordered
by a principal arteria which in this
case is Porter Drive it's a two-lane
road it's improved uh a collector
roadway called Central Avenue it's
unimproved and at least a portion that
is adjacent to the development boundary
and one fully dedicated and unimproved
local roadway called Alba Road um that
is unimproved and that is the subject of
the road waiver request which will also
be discussed this
evening um three larger developments are
in the vicinity of this proposed area uh
Vista De La Mont sier Tia ad mosa which
was recently brought forward to this
commission for approval in terms of
their subdivision proposal and sunrise
Mesa mobile home park which is located
south uh the first two are are on the
east side of Porter Drive so therefore
east of the subject boundary uh there's
also also several individual Lots in the
vicinity that are developed uh in large
part they're developed and the land use
pattern basically consists of single
family and some
multifam uh type uses and the
residential component of which is uh
typically mobile home siteb built homes
and and manufactured homes uh the total
acreage under consideration is 23.2
Acres I've got an aerial here here that
shows the outer boundary in red consists
of two Parcels obviously as shown uh you
got Porter Drive along the east side you
got Central Road or or Central Avenue
you could tell the name changes right at
Porter But Central on the south side and
this little dirt uh Road here is Alba
it's uh as indicated
unimproved um other roadways Village
Drive will come into the discussion here
and that's located in this vicinity this
is where Tia Osa is currently underway
in terms of development and this is uh
uh where the other
significant um development has taken
place Elana road which was part of
packet discussion previously before uh
the matter had to be uh postponed uh is
located here but it is no no longer
under consideration for tonight
um this is the zoning map that again
illustrates the location of the proposed
development outlined in red uh you could
see the subject property is PUD it's
listed as PUD R2 uh staff believes that
the R2 designation was merely an
indication of the density that the Pud
the original PUD was to be developed
under um I think for tonight and
uh Hereafter PUD is is the zoning
designation that would be used and
should be
used uh everything around it at least in
this area here is r1a that's your
typical single family medium density
style of
development um siteb Built Homes or mo
mobile homes uh in this case exist
because of annexation of the area prior
to regulation that would prohibit them
uh manufactured homes as well uh the
sunrise uh Mesa the mobile home park
sits here and here's r1a mobile which
allows mobile homes in this vicinity
further south of the subject property is
some
commercial uh C2 C3 as it relates or as
it comes closer to Baton Memorial West
so the proposal this evening is a mixed
use PUD it does have the requested Road
waiver uh up for consideration it's a
multif family townhouse style of
development that is being proposed it's
approximately 12.6 acres in size for
that residential component uh if you
look at just that residential area it
comes in at about 16 to 20 dwelling
units per acre in terms of density if
you look at the whole the
23.2 Acres it falls more in line with an
8 and 1 12 to 11 uh dwelling unit per
acre uh density
calculation um the commercial tract is
4.41 Acres more or less and the drainage
open space is 2.9 acres in right away
consist of four uh the proposal seeks to
develop the property in three phases uh
the first one uh sits clear of any
issues involving uh storm water drainage
related matters uh the other two will
come into play and have to be
coordinated with city of Las Cruses and
that there's a uh conditional letter of
map revision or a letter of map revision
process underway and that has to take
place before any uh development takes
place the public benefits that were
identified per the concept plan is mixed
Youth
Development uh Provisions for attainable
housing in this case missing middle or a
form of missing middle uh it brings
commercial a pocket of commercial into
the area further north of baton
uh which is nice you don't have to
travel or or hop in the car to go get
milk or eggs or whatever else you may
find in a commercial uh Center uh the um
proposal also provides opportunities for
passive and active Recreation and that
there is a drainage track um provided in
the boundary that will be uh
maintained by the developer but also
allows for uh some recreational
activities if they uh resident so wish
uh it's walkable from a connectivity
perspective there will be sidewalks
provided
throughout uh and and reflected in
future uh planning efforts associated
with u uh the development process the
provisions for storm water conveyance
are being provided to Aid uh the city
cruset and drainage projects ultimately
dumping some of the water into the OV
Vista Pond which is uh adjacent to the
subject boundary there are uh every
intention by the developer to match any
existing RightWay crosssections
particularly those for Central Avenue
and Porter Drive um any uh necessary
Prat aare of dedicated RightWay along
Porter will be provided uh any
Improvement ments per Rish share uh will
also be provided um Central Avenue is is
going to be 100% built out and there is
also Provisions for an additional 40t of
drainage right away to a in that uh
drainage effort that the city is part uh
is looking at at the present time the
proposal regarding Alba Road uh there's
a 50 ft of rideway that exists for Al
Road it is a local roadway and so
there's no need for further dedication
right away uh but according to design
standards uh development or any
applicant uh application for development
would have to improve that road but
since uh the developer is uh providing
additional dedication for drainage to
Aid in the overall good of the area in
terms of drainage and because the
sunrise of PUD the concept plan does not
intend to access this local roadway or
have any form of Ingress egress to it uh
and because the Alba Road dead ends uh
at the northern Point um and they're
just it would serve one property owner
and that's the owner where that roadway
is located and so as such they are
seeking to not be required to improve uh
Alba Road
this is a very
small uh picture snapshot of the concept
plan but I'm going to focus in on this
uh area this is the actual concept plan
itself this was that drainage Pond that
I told you about it's adjacent to Alba
Road here this is the road that has the
50 fet of RightWay but they're asking
for a waiver request to Improvement this
Blue Area represents or Purp area
however it's coming up there uh is the
40 ft of additional drainage right away
Central Road being a collector has a 85
ft uh or will have the 85 ft dedicated
Porter Drive located here along the east
side uh has the 100 or will have the 120
ft of
rideway um Village Drive intersects
right here and at the present time there
is a lot of discussion and Design conc
considerations going in for a roundabout
at this location which the applicant and
uh representative are well aware of and
intend to uh design with that in mind
um the area in red represents the lots
that will have the
multifam uh uses on it the town homes uh
located on it most will be uh for
attached un units some will be less uh
but the the intent is to have four units
they will follow a policy that's
established inous to allow uh
development of those units as a single
family uh use rather than a commercial
use uh there are some commercial aspects
such as Landscaping that are still
considered but that serves as a benefit
to the
developer uh for a variety of reasons
mostly um insurance as I as I understand
it uh among others this here is a
commercial tra right at the intersection
of Central Avenue and Porter
Drive and the road Network obviously
looping
around oh one thing you have
connectivity this was an access uh uh
easement if you will for pedestrians to
get to the commercial tract and this one
as well
couple of photos uh just to give you an
idea what's out there Porter Drive in
Central Avenue looking
North Vista De Montana is over here uh
Porter Drive looking South you can see
the park that is provided Vista Dela
monana uh this is where Village Drive
intersects Porter Porter
Road and this is Central Avenue at
Porter uh looking West
and I'm along Central Avenue looking
North and this is Alba more so a trail
than anything else at this point in time
so our an analysis from a staff
perspective no health safety welfare
issues were identified as uh concerns by
staff the property sits within the
Suburban Neighborhood Place type uh it's
characterized by load of moderate uh
density residential with some commercial
uh uses um incorporated or intermixed
into the area uh the proposal lines with
Elevate Los cruus in fact there's
several goals objectives and uh policies
that that pertain and support uh what is
being considered this evening it's
consistent with the Pud section of the
zoning
code and notice was sent to the
surrounding properties and at this point
in time other than the uh one individ
ual who had questions regarding elano
which is no longer at issue uh per this
new submittal showing the new boundary
uh staff has not heard of any other
concerns at this point in time the staff
recommendation is conditional approval
based on the findings uh again the area
was previously uh planned for multif
family development that plan expired IT
addresses all the require requirements
per the Pud section of the zoning code
um all applicable rights away will be
provided uh and roadways improved per uh
ordinance except for the local roadway
which is under waiver
consideration if commission deems it
appropriate to do so uh the applicable
improvements along Central Avenue will
be coordinated with city of Las cusa to
help facilitate offsite uh drainage
improvements
uh the Pud provides uh flexibility in
terms of development in terms of what
they are proposing and there's a balance
with what they're requesting in terms of
what public benefit uh uh are received
by us as residents of Las
cruus The Proposal seeks to provide a
form of missing midal
housing and as such the conditions are
as follows uh the developers to match
any exist Andor approved alternate
crosssections as they relate for Central
Road or Central Avenue rather and Porter
Drive
um Central Avenue is is uh perhaps the
one roadway that will have a alternative
cross-section considered due to the
drainage right away Porter Drive is
pretty much your standard
roadway um arterial roadway uh so less
so on Porter Drive more more so on
Central uh the uh modified
cross-sections or any request to do so
will have to go before
DRC and there's a request by several of
the DRC members to ensure that safe
modes of uh pedestrian access are
incorporated into said Road designs or
cross-sections to ensure uh proper
connectivity
connectivity and uh uh access to to uh
use is adjacent to this development uh
and I'm speaking to the park and trails
that are on the east side of
Porter DRC heard this uh this request
and the waiver request on
82824 and DRC unanimously recommended a
conditional approval to pnz of the
concept plan the road waiver did not
have a similar fate um keep in mind that
that original request involved elano and
Alba elano is off the table today it's
no longer part of the discussion uh the
fire department said that uh at that
meeting that uh they could probably
support the Alba Road waiver but not the
elano so if you take that into
consideration it's it's more 32 in favor
as opposed to uh 23
denied your options this evening
evening uh Mr chairman Commissioners to
vote Yes and approve uh the request for
the concept plan in the road
waver um separately of course you could
vote no and deny them and you could vote
Yes with conditions as those uh
presented by staff or any others you may
deem appropriate and you can vote to
table uh any denial requires new
information or findings that have not
been provided to you in packet or Pres
presentation and that concludes staff's
presentation uh Mr harlo dck the
property owner in attendance as well as
Paul pompo is representative and they
may have some uh presentation to
provide thank you does the applicant
have a presentation they wish to make
good evening Mr chairman please state
your name for the record Paul pompo do
you swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give us the truth and nothing
but the truth under penalty of law yes I
do go ahead thank you Mr chairman
Commissioners uh I have a short
presentation and then I would be happy
to answer any questions you might have
about this
development uh once again this is the
sunrise Mesa PUD area uh located to the
northwest of Porter Drive and Central as
outlined on this
map uh the staff has gone over uh quite
complete the concept plan uh as shown
here uh once again here's a zoomed in
version showing kind of the lot
alignments the uh interior roadway
alignments that will be built City
standard along with the commercial tract
to the uh southeast of the development
uh once again this property is 23.2
acres in size its existing zoning was
PUD R2 um the original PUD was actually
approved in
1999 and by this development we're
proposing 12.6 Acres of multif family
housing 4.41 Acres of commercial uh 2.19
Acres of open space storm water
management and then that leaves 4 Acres
of dedicated rideway from this
attractive land uh the multif family
areas are propos supposed to have land
use density between 16 to 20 dwelling
units per acre for a total unit count of
between 201 252
units this is the original PUD that I
presented to this body in 1999 boy how
time
flies and so the Northern Area kind of
showed how the Lots were going to be
laid out as a manufactured housing type
development so the public benefits of
this PUD concept plan is to provide
multif family residential housing and
neighborhood commercial land uses for a
growing population in area of Las Cruses
that is has these limited type of zones
um housing options proposed by this
development provide additional
opportunities other than typical single
family uh products that are not
attainable to many in the population uh
neighborhood commercial zoning allows
for goods and services adjacent to the
residential housing within walking
distance to this development and to
others in the area
also as indicated by staff we are
proposing to do our 50% buildout of
Porter Road and 100% build out of
Central
Avenue um as discussed by staff on the
the flood zone issues by this
development we are going to participate
in the future San Hill uh a Royo Channel
project which will eventually connect
the waterfalls flood control facility
which is to the east and south of
Highway 70 to the Oral Vista flood
control facility which is located to the
west of this
development um this project will feature
the construction of a concrete line
drainage Channel which will ultimately
remove 27 individual properties from the
existing flood zone in that
area now moving on to Alba Road as shown
here on the on the map Alba road is
located in this this area right here um
this is the tract of land that's
adjacent to the sunrise Mesa development
and then adjacent to that is the Oral
Vista ponding area that belongs to the
city of Los
cruises as noted by staff this strip of
land runs up and it dead ends in this
area here and note the housing um of
existing Lots in this
area we are respectfully submitting this
roadway waiver to Alba for the following
reasons um Alba road is wholly contained
on the adjacent property of the West
this roadway was created by a previous
property owner of that track
the sunrise Mesa development has no
beneficial use of this Ro roadway as we
are taking no access from it
improvements if required to this roadway
only benefits the underlying property
owner and no one else in this
area and to continue Alba Road does not
contribute to the overall roadway
Network in this area either as it dead
ends to the north and therefore provides
no additional continuity to any other
property based on these reasons we feel
that a waiver to these roadway
improvements for this specific stretch
of road are Justified and I want to
point out this is the the deed where
this easement was created and it's
located right in this area here where it
says it's subjected to a 60ft road and
utility easement on this property and
what I'm suggesting by that Mr chairman
commissioner is that the property owner
took it upon themselves to create this
60ft strip of land um this deed was
filed back in 1988 I believe and so I it
it was created by that property owner
and so since they've created it on their
land wholly on their land it should be
their responsibility to develop it with
that Mr chairman that concludes my
presentation I'd be happy to answer any
questions the commission might have
thank you any questions from the
commission commissioner Smith I just
have one quick one uh for clarification
um the access access points is it going
to be from Porter Road and from Central
Avenue yes it there'll be one access
point uh one off of Porter and one off
of central
okay thank
you go ahead commissioner
th who's who's the property oh sorry how
you supposed to say it properly uh chair
and then po you always mess up on the
thing um uh on the other side of Alba
road to the West who's the property
owner of that uh the last name is called
Deron okay I just I'm just curious if
there is
any um and now is this on your the 50
Foot RightWay is on your piece or is
that on his piece let me let me uh Mr
chairman commissioner let me go back to
that uh this strip of land Alber Road
and I and I guess just for clarity I
found the document that created the 50F
foot easement I have not found a
document that took it from an easement
to Dedicated rideway I don't believe
that that's has any impact on this
discussion tonight because the city
would have never have accepted it for
dedication without having improvements
on it so there may be a mapping issue
there I I'm just saying I was not able
to find it that that easement does exist
it is of record um and it was on top of
this tract of land here that was uh the
14.6 acres to the
West is is Alba Road a local Road it
would be a local Road yes
okay any other
questions Mr
chair I have a question for Mr pompo so
from my understanding you're going to
build a 50% of uh Porter Drive and 100%
of Central Avenue and um you are not
requesting a waiver for elbow you don't
want to touch the elbow because it
doesn't impact the property correct uh
yes Comm Costa the we are going to do
the full the 50% build out of Porter
which will which is required by code
we're going to do 100% of the build out
of central uh Central is a collector it
could be argued that you know we're only
to do our half of that but this
developer has in order to get access in
the area because there's no we we saw no
Avenue that the property owner to the
South was ever going to be able going to
come back because that development is
basically complete so I I guess in a
grand scheme of things we talk about
benefit maybe we're Shifting the
responsibility we're building out the
drainage Channel we're building out more
of central we're asking for the waiver
to Al the
road Mr chair I don't know if this is
appropriate or not but I have to commend
the Builder for for doing that building
100% of of the Central Avenue and then
participating in the drainage Channel
that's it's a
rarity so just
uh for my own clarification this maybe
is a question for staff but so it's
established that Alba road is not on the
applicant's property correct it is not
Mr chairman it is not on my client's
property that's correct okay so a
question to staff
is why are we requiring them to I guess
follow an access easement that is
not has nothing to do with
this application this property owner
this
applicant Mr chairman Commissioners uh
per when when we had talked when staff
had talked with uh the applicants and
applicant
representative uh the discussion
centered around Alba Road being uh
having 50 ft
dedicated um as per the design standards
chapter 32 of the mun code uh any
adjacent roadways of a local anything
below a collector uh Improvement is
required 100% by the adjoining
development or the proposed development
that adjoins that road and that's the
only reason why they were on the hook to
improve all the road um now when we were
talking about it it was dedicated uh so
Mr pompo had just indicated that an
easement document had been found uh but
no dedication document so if I were to
read the code
literally they probably wouldn't be on
the hook for it at all unless there is
dedication
involved
um you know it's just one of those catch
22s where what is it
really okay so just to make sure I'm
following so
there's no record that this there was a
local roadway designation to create Alba
Road correct that that's what Mr pompo
has stated he he could not look and the
city agrees with that there's no based
on what uh I've heard this evening uh
without doing our own research that kind
of thing uh I don't have a clear answer
for you on that okay seems like an
important question to answer if we're
asking the applicant or in this case
requiring the applicant to build a road
seems like that would be something we
would not want to know the answer to
because the way that I see it right now
the applicant hasn't proposed any access
from this Alba Road and the access the
legal access easement as it exists now
is not even part of this application the
the property owner doesn't even own
it correct it's adjacent to the boundary
of the concept plan but if it were
dedicated looking at the request and
what has been presented and provided to
you in your packet it assumes the worst
case scenario in terms of the
Improvement of that roadway it assumes
dedication so if it were dedicated they
would be on the hook to
improve and what the request is this
evening is a waiver to that uh standard
if you will so if it's no longer
dedicated and it's just an easement and
it you know question exists whether or
not it is uh considered even a local
Road it's just a an access
easement I okay I'm following I think
I'm just not sure why we wouldn't run
this to ground why why were we dealing
in hypothe I mean there's clearly an
answer out there right yeah in terms of
the review yeah there should be a an
answer to that um in terms of the review
of The Proposal whatever is
submitted uh by the applicant goes
through the reviewing parties uh Land
Management for instance takes a crack
ated planning Etc fire uh and um you
know this this issue did not come up in
terms of dedication or easement it was
identified as dedicated right
away by the by the
and staff's position is the applicant is
on the hook for developing per code yes
if if it is dedicated
yes if it is not they not is it or is it
or isn't it that's we don't know I don't
know I don't have a firm answer for you
but what I'm saying is the worst case
scenario in terms of it being dedicated
the applicant would be on the hook to
provide but they're asking a waiver to
that
standard so really the question is do
you feel
what they're providing via their concept
plan warrants consideration of the
waiver if it were dedicated or
not yeah I guess I'm I having an issue
with the fact that we don't we haven't
done our homework here it seems like if
if the answer is there's no
dedication there isn't even a need for a
waiver it's a moot point
so I'm just not sure how we got this far
without figuring out what seems to be a
pretty fundamental question but
I'll get off that horse um unless
there's anything else to add to it Mr
chairman it
uh the the issue with Alber Road has
been one that's been lurking for a while
and I uh it would be inappropriate uh
for myself to to pin this one on staff
uh we did our own property research
going back um you know prior to 19 80
these the tracks of land and even F
farther back than that were were were
identified by sections of land as we
start digging into it and looking at
Alba Road Alba Road has shown up as a
dedicated rideway on the gis forever all
the way back so I think people just
inherently just took it that it was a
road well in in looking at this
application and and and actually I
didn't get the deed for this until today
and I apologize for the lateness Mr
chairman but
the only thing I could find and coming
up through 1983 to 88 to 89 so we're in
the county and we're prior to
etz this this easement was showing up on
the on the deeds and then all of a
sudden it turned into dedicated
rideway well taking a step back so if we
start in 89 with the
etz the only way that that could have
been dedicated RightWay after that point
was either uh so that was prior to it
being annexed in the city so uh I must
spoke the only way for it to be by the
time we get to 1988 or ' 89 the only way
for it to be dedicated right away was
there's only two ways one was via
Subdivision plat and both of these
properties are not within a f recorded
subdivision so we know it didn't happen
that way there could have been a
separate dedication request that went to
city
council but number one I have not been
able to find that and number two I find
it hard to believe that the city would
have accepted dedicated right away with
no improvements they just that just
doesn't happen so I stand here before
you tonight because there's always that
one in a million chance that there's a
document's going to pop up and I don't
want to take that chance as we get to
City Council so I'd like to proceed
forward with the waiver request with it
being assumed to be dedicated right away
and then if it turns out not to be then
that request will just fall away as we
make our way to city
council thank you very much that's
helpful um text I appreciate that um any
other questions on this topic I have a
few other
questions um um moving on
to
um the open space and drainage so can
you just describe a little bit more what
the what the idea is there as far as
combining those two things well we we
we've done the drainage calculations
volumetrically for what that area needs
to be we just don't have a if we only
need for instance Mr chairman if we only
needed half of it for the actual
drainage Improvement then maybe we would
try for a park or open space or other am
some other type of amenity it's just at
this time because we don't have the
design finished we don't know what how
much area we've got to work with so I
wanted to leave the door open for open
space and rather than just calling it a
drainage tract I wanted to leave the
opportunity that could be more than that
okay because on the the concept plan it
it very clearly just says drainage so I
don't I don't know if we need to change
that to make sure that the open
space is captured there I guess what
would happen if you if if the
calculations come back and you say you
need the whole thing for drainage the
open space is out of the picture at that
point it possibly could happen that way
I I don't know what the what the you
know with with in when I talk about the
drainage not trying to deflect the the
answer is that but we have drainage from
this development plus we have drainage
that we're that we're going to cut off
from those existing ayos to take down to
that channel below so taking all that
into consideration since we haven't done
the hard engineering on it yet I can't
couldn't answer that but there is a
possibility Mr chairman that the entire
area would be needed for just storm
water
management to have both of those things
right you could do some sort of native
type of
landscaping in your storm water drainage
track that can serve as passive you know
recreation in addition to when it does
rain on occasion you're then able to
capture storm water um as required so
I'm just wondering if that could that be
the eventual outcome here uh yes Mr
chairman I mean we would accept a a
recommendation or a A or maybe another
condition to modify this from drainage
to drainage slop space and then that
would leave opportunities for that okay
I I mean it seems like that would be a
way to
accommodate both of those Concepts
because
it it sort of seems weird to be talking
about this idea of open space and that
you're you're putting that in your wind
column right as it's a public benefit
but then you know we get to the end of
it it's like well just kidding we needed
it all for storm water seems kind of uh
yes M we we can we'll make that
modification in the original concept
plan the green area was wider because we
were pushed out to the north a little
bit more so uh I don't know why it got
dropped off but we We'll add that back
in as a condition of approval if you so
see F okay yeah I think we should
consider that as an an additional
condition here um and then just for
clarification on Central Avenue so that
whole RightWay is would be from these
two tracks correct there'll be a total
of 125 ft of RightWay between the
existing property line of the sunrise
Mesa mobile home park to the southern
boundary of this development okay but
your your dedication the full dedication
of Central Avenue is coming from this
applicant's property no there was
a let me go back to the
I think originally you can see the Gap
in there this Sunrise Mesa on the
southern end built up to this property
line I think it this was shown as a 50ft
road at that time in 1999 but so we're
going to go from that property line 125
ft North so whatever is is missing there
uh whatever it takes to get to the 125
foot will come out of the northern piece
gotcha okay thank you um
and
then this is I think a question for
staff um so on the
density um we we obviously have uh the
number that you threw around I think it
was 16 to 20 if you're just looking at
the residential component um but what
What mechanisms are there to
ensure that that is ultimately what gets
built I mean our because the the site
plan I mean I didn't do the math I
didn't count I don't know how many lots
that is but um I don't think that's the
the 200 that um Mr Pompeo identified so
I guess what mechanisms because I don't
see anything in the staff report that
says there shall be a minimum
residential density how do we ensure
that what we're talking about tonight
ends up getting built so Mr chairman
Commissioners uh the concept plan itself
if you go to I mean the larger picture I
realize that it's it's hard to read it's
it's a lot of information uh down here
in their uh on the concept plan it
illustrates the method of uh
construction and the manner in which
those homes will be attached and so
because it's here and because it gets
approved should you approve it that's
what they're going to have to follow
thank you
those are all the questions that I have
Comm I got a question regarding the Lots
as well because it when it comes to
permitting time you go in there with
just a single lot and if this is R2 it
still says that you're permitted to
build a single family home on this
lot what what's going to stop you from
putting a fourplex a duplex versus just
a a single residential family home on
there if it's meant for
multifam what is the the what's the
mechanism in which that's going to be
upheld to CU it in here if you got 51
Lots there you got about 204 Lots or 204
units which in in this it's showing that
is a multif family so is that is that
written I can't read the small print on
the concept plan so I'm just wondering
if that is written in on that it it it
is uh Mr chairman uh commissioner
thirston the blow up of the concept plan
particularly this tabular data here uh
not only gives the range for multif
family in terms of the density uh but
also indicates the minimum number of
units is 201 and the maximum is
252 and then as indicated uh in in the
previous answer I know I cut it off just
simply to fit it on the slide but down
on the uh uh the bottom page of the
concept plan the applicant illustrates
the manner in which development will
take place on each lot they are
proposing to utilize a um a policy a
departmental policy that allows them to
permit those as single family but the
fact that there's going to be
four we we would normally in the
planning World call those a quadplex uh
worst case has indicated in certain
instances it would be a duplex but from
a permitting standpoint they're going to
be able to utilize uh a policy that
allows them to permit those as single
family
units but the broader property uh
Landscaping all that still has to be met
as a multif family component so From
planning's perspective it's multif
family I'm just saying from a pering
perspective they get the benefit of that
policy as single
family okay so on this density I can't I
can't read this one you're saying the
minimum density is 2011 UNS the the
total number the minimum total number of
units is
2011 so in in
the DRC comments they were saying they
would possibly be doing some duplexes
correct so if you did duplexes that
would be underneath the if you did all
of them as duplexes you'd be underneath
the 2011 what what uh Mr chairman
commissioner thirston what the applicant
has stated is for the most part there's
going to be certain instances where
duplexes would would
and perhaps Paul has Clarity on that but
uh it was mentioned that fourplex would
be the thrust of their development
proposal thank you I I got a couple
other little questions for Clarity
on the public benefits is the drainage
was one of the ones that I saw um as as
you see the drainage coming across the
property it looks like it's more um just
being shifted from the middle down to
the C Central is is what I'm kind of
seeing so the public benefit of that
is uh Mr chairman commissioner thirston
oh I need to get back to my my slide can
you sorry
by
okay
so
this this land track here or this this
where this vegetation is greener and
then this channel alignment here it's
what constitutes two fingers of the of
the sandill ayal this ayal runs through
the ti Hermosa subdivision which is
which what staff spoke of which is to
the east of here this Sanel La Royal
runs in its natural flow path between
the waterfalls uh in pman area which is
up off a Holan Road and or actually done
drive and Highway 70 uh runs in its
natural course down into the Oral Vista
ponds which are you can see are tagged
here between this development here at
Sunrise Mesa the atera Hermosa
development to the East H and there are
five other or I'm sorry four other
property owners uh it is to take the San
Hill Royo from where it crosses Highway
70 and and in a concrete Channel running
down Central Avenue coming into the two
inlets here that are in the Oral Vista
Pond so this channel is not just it it's
in other words this cannot be taken out
of the flood zone until this entire
Channel gets built and that's why we've
restricted the the uh to only phase one
which is in the northern area of the
development here and we can't do
anything else until this channel gets
built so this channel is required by
this development for phases two and
three it's also required for the third
phase of the terrosa subdivision next
door um we have met with the city of Las
Cruses and the public works department
this interconnection is part of the city
storm water management plan it's it's uh
and so uh we'll be working in a
collective effort with the city the
other property owners and as adjacent
developer of tiosa to get this channel
built I I got one one last question on
so thank you for that um explanation of
that the last one that I have is um on
Porter Road or Porter
Drive when when will the entire Porter
Road be built out will that be built out
in Phase
One well Porter Road's kind of a tricky
animal here because when the Vista uh in
monana subdivision uh that we got
approved back in the 2008 or 2009 um we
had to put this chicane in in Porter
Drive because we couldn't get because
Porter Drive was down on the western
side of the rideway at this
intersection uh so the decision was made
to shift Porter Road over so that it
would line up with the other half on the
western side but Porter Road came up to
this Vista De La monana subdivision it
changed back to the east side so as it
sits today the tiarra Hermosa
development that this commission has
previously approved in the last five or
six months they are on the hook for
building this other half of Porter Drive
here the sunrise Mesa group Isis
required to build it from this location
to the north so you have two existing
ongoing subdivisions that will build
this full sectional port P
drive so when you come in and do phase
one then Porter Drive you're that will
be installed that at that time yes okay
and that'll be in PH I was just I was
nervous on that because as you see
throughout the city now this doesn't
have to do with this project but
throughout the city we see where it goes
from a two lane to a four lane back to a
two lane and then another half a mile it
goes back again and so I'm just wanting
to make sure that we're not when phase
one is getting put in if phase one is
the north P portion of it we're not
going back again and doing the same
thing we've done in past is going from
four and then allowing the development
to happen here without improving the
rest that at at that time so I just my
personal personal issue of me driving
around the city is that it really goes
from a four to a two to a four and it
drives me
insane yes Mr chairman commissioner
thirston and and to to your point um the
first phase of this development does run
down this is this little other white
area right here is is Village Drive and
so this is the future roundabout that uh
the staff and the developers at ter
Hermosa have been discussing in the next
phase of that subdivision is that that's
would get built so all of that will get
built all approximately at the same
time thank
you um I have just one additional
question uh that that um I remembered
this is I think a question for staff at
first but the commercial part of this
development what
how how is that align with our current
commercial zoning districts will it will
it not any restrictions on what they can
cannot do from a usage
perspective Mr chairman Commissioners in
terms of the uh proposed use of that
property for commercial purposes it
would
align uh with our existing
um designations it keep in mind that the
property itself is going to be Zone PUD
they're proposing potentially one
potentially a small Center of multiple
uh commercial uses so uh it it may not
have a C3 or C2 designation like we
typically see uh but they intend to use
it as as a commercial center either
individually or in tandem with other
like uses okay but when we talk about
commercial
center are we talking neighborhood
Centric
uses uh got forbid Other Self Storage
like what are we I mean what's kind of
the cons I guess if we leave it open to
whatever they want that sort of seems
kind of defeating the purpose of a pie I
would think no the um did you did you
want to the use on the
C3 neighborhood the Mr chairman the the
uses on that property would just be more
neighborhood based uh you know nothing
nothing major in other words we don't
see a a a plan where the entire four
plus acres would be consumed by just
like one building it would be all
neighborhood small commercial uses got
it thank you
all right uh I will turn to public
comment and if there's any additional
comments we can come back afterwards so
anybody um in the audience who wishes to
speak on this item can I get a show of
hands Mr chairman I apologize the staff
and I are looking at a at a deed
or a warranty deed that that speaks to
Alba road but it
does it's a warrant deed that and this
is why I couldn't find it this is a
warranty deed that between the city of
Los Cruses
and woods
[Music]
from 92 but the the the property
information that I found was previous to
that in ' 89 um it it talks about a
warranty deed for a piece of land but
what it what I've not seen it I didn't
see a dedication document and that's
what I was looking for so that's what
staff and I are discussing I apologize
attention was taken
away no worri so I guess what does that
mean for us doing research on the Fly
here I'm GNA let Adam take that
one um well welcome Janet etz is back
she saw these can of worms that Pardon
Me Adam oo Community Development for the
record uh we saw these cans of worms
multiple times uh in in the etz where
basically essentially people owned a
huge track of land that somebody in
Albuquerque or somewhere just drew a
line saying this is an easement here so
when they bought that land they said a
Road's eventually going to go there um
and then event essentially sometimes
they would leave it as an EAS and
sometimes they just said we're we're
going to dedicate it so they dedicate to
whatever entity is over them either the
county or the city etz as a joint
venture and then basically the city
would never accept it the county would
never accept it so it just stay there
it's just kind of a G man land if you
will of a future Road uh that
nobody claims really anymore and then
you find these tidbits here and there
every once in a while and sometimes you
put them you could put them together
sometimes you couldn't that's why
sometimes etz subdivision especially for
larger subdivisions took such a long
time to get done just to find those
things so I guess tonight the request
would be to uh Poss move forward the
waiver as if it is dedicated because if
it is then
if you choose to move forward with
whatever recommendation you you choose
to we have that uh issue taken care of
if you will where they'll either have to
dedicate the road do more research and
dedicate the road and build it or they
got the waiver request and they won't
have to build the road
essentially okay and it's still staff's
position that that that
you wish to deny or your recommendation
is to deny the waiver that staff's
position
Mr chair uh ours was correct this to to
deny oh well staff plan planning staff
did vote at DRC to recommend approval
for the waiver request uh but DRC voted
to deny it uh uh with five different
departments it was a three to2 vote for
uh recommend denial for the waiv
requester got it okay thank you Mr chair
yes just for clarification so if we
approve the waiver is for them to do the
build out of Alba road am I
understanding that
correctly no if we approve the waiver
it's so that they would not have to do
the improvements yeah would not thank
you
sir clear as mud M Mr chairman if I may
um in looking at some of the information
from the staff uh uh City website
regarding rights of way
uh I found an instrument
92423 with the assistance of Staff dated
22192 and on the map it does talk about
uh
RightWay uh for Alba Road uh file date
of 331
1992 and instrument number as indicated
92423 so staff would conclude that
dedication it may not be accepted
by the city because it's not improved
but it's
dedicated and that's
just on the
adjacent that's property that's on the
adjacent property outside the boundary
of this concept plan all right thank you
commissioner th so the way the code is
written if I understand it correctly and
staff might have to correct me on this
but since it's a since it's also a local
Road and and you're subdividing and it's
adjacent you're required to put the
whole Road in not just one side of it
but you're supposed to do the whole Road
that's correct 100% so for clarification
today they're
they're they're wanting us to wave it
and to not have them have to put it in
um and then that the future
responsibility would lie on the owner to
the
West that's correct okay where where the
road currently sits
thank you um all right going to go back
to public comment um I didn't see any
hands but just to confirm nobody wishes
to speak on this item this
evening all right seeing none we'll come
back to the
commission um unless there's any further
conversation we've got a couple of
things we need to uh
restore um the rules to vote on these
two items separately so first we'll take
a motion to do
that okay never mind we don't need to to
make a motion so we can just vote on
them
separately um so we're
unsuspended uh looking for a motion then
to let's
see where's my agenda um
so the
first motion will be item
8.1 which is the request for an approval
of the sunrise Mesa planned unit
development concept plan so this is not
the waiver this is just the
Pud I make a motion to accept the
concept plan as as
presented keep in mind there were
conditions recommended by staff so if we
need if we want to keep those you need
to specify with conditions
no the conditions uh were on page uh two
of the staff report it's just the
conditions as follows there were three
of
them page
two
see Mr chairman so it doesn't include
the waiver point of order they're also
up on the
yes they're also on the
TV with staff's recommendations
conditions as recommended by the
staff looking for a second I
second okay so we'll take the vote on 8
.1 commissioner
thirston sorry I was reading the uh
making sure I knew what the conditions
were
yes we need a
explanation uh yes based off of the
discussion we had and also that it meets
the I had my notes the it aligns with
the Elevate loss cruus comprehensive
plan
commissioner Smith I vote Yes based on
staff recommendation and uh it complies
with the Elevate Los Cruz's
comprehensive plan commissioner Costa
yes based on staff recommendations and
Elevate Los cr's comprehension plan and
chair yes based on staff recommendation
and consistency with Elevate loss Cruis
okay now we're going to vote on item
8.2 so looking for a motion to approve
the waiver this is item
8.2 I make a motion to approve the
waiver where the developer is not
responsible for Alba
road development
out I
second commissioner thirston
yes what's your
[Music]
explanation sorry I always forget about
that yes based on
the where is it the public benefit of
the drainage coming across and also the
that uh the section where they said
they're going to prod produce The
Pedestrian
walkways commissioner Smith I will yes
based on staff recommendation and also
consistent with Elevate Los Cruis
comprehensive plan commissioner Costa
yes based on staff recommendation
discussion and Elevate Los Cruz's
comprehension plan
chair yes based on the discussion this
evening um and the uh fact that the
development is not taking access off of
um Alba Road and that it resides on the
adjacent
parcel thank
you all right I think should be a little
bit easier the rest of the
way um moving on to uh new business um
first we will
hear uh case number
24z o I think 1
00102 which is a request for special use
permit to allow uh a child care um group
home all right thank you chair Adam
witho Community Development for the
record again uh this is a proposed
special use permit or Su uh for a
property located at 1809 Beverly Place
property is located on the west side of
Beverly Place approximately 3 385 ft
north of its intersections with uh East
mulbury Avenue it is on Roa which is
single family medium density uh there is
currently a single family home with its
ancillary uh uses on there property is
roughly about Point uh 0207 acres in
size a lot of the Lots around this area
a little bit larger than your typical
r1a Lots uh of 5,000 square feet there
is an existing single family uh home on
there with an existing home occupation
uh basically that home occupation we
Define that under our zoning code as a f
family child care home uh with a maximum
of six
children so showing here it's subject
property as you can see leading into
what's just a large uh single family
residential neighborhood uh Elementary
School to the north little bit bearings
uh East mulbury to the South here and
Madrid I believe it's to the north here
as
well here's the aerial again couple cold
the saacks leading into to that
neighborhood here uh where the East is
majority developed single family we got
some vacant multifam zoning to the west
and south and of course again the school
to the
north so what we're reviewing tonight is
that proposed special use permit to
allow essentially what's called by the
2001 zoning cone a group uh Child Care
uh home which would allow up to 12
children per the city of Las Cruz's uh
zoning code any more than six children
being taken care of at a single family
home with a home occupation are required
to seek a special use permit the
applicant has stated that uh they will
be operating uh Monday through Fridays
as they currently are from 7 7:30 to 6
they do have staggered will continue
staggered drop off and pickup times uh
in the morning in the afternoon uh they
typically see anywhere between about two
maybe three parents at a time um they do
utilize an online communication system
with anybody that that comes to their
daycare to to provide announcements
updates so on and so forth like that to
keep the minimum amount of parents on
site at
once uh they do have adequate parking
they provided a site plan shown they do
meet the minimum parking requirements
for the single family home and for the
uh proposed expanded uh home
occupation uh they will uh appan has
stated that will follow all requirements
of the study of Los cruises including
the fire department and their
requirements and the state of New Mexico
as well
uh uh they finish off by stating
essentially they they have provided
child care services for over 13 years so
are definitely experienced with this uh
with what they're proposing in here TR
the S planine here is you can see rather
large area here uh kind a play area here
for the for the children the home here
they have a improved parking here they
have gravel parking to the to the east
as well with Entre parking along the
cesac of course since this is a local
roadway on street parking is all allowed
along the entirety of uh Beverly uh
Road showing here just a floor plan of
what their their daycare is areas are uh
bathroom so on and so forth this was a
requirement of from them from our fire
department showing their egress
emergency erress and so forth so they do
take care of that they take care of that
issue for
fire when staff their analysis uh we
essentially didn't identify any public
safety Health welfare safety issues
which is kind of one of the leading
things what you should be looking at for
special use permit uh the proposed
special use permit is supported by
Elevate Los Cruz's comprehensive plan in
that it encourages for small business
entrepreneurship and letting that grow
uh supports for the increase in uh
access to child care uh not only in area
in smaller area neighborhoods but the
city as a whole and also supports uh for
home employment and live work work units
that type of situation in the city uh
the proposal is compatible with the
neighborhood since it is a home
occupation the primary use will continue
to be a home it'll look like a home it
won't have any signage outside with the
ancillary use being the actual special
use per or that child care service uh
and additionally top of that this is a
much needed service uh throughout the
community uh since we've had a number
special use firm has come before youall
and as stated by the applicant uh and as
stated in the past and other meetings as
well where essentially caretakers have
waiting lists for kids trying to get
into their uh Child Care Home Services
in order to provide child care for
them uh so public notice was sent out to
also R Property Owners within 500 ft of
the proposed special use permit staff
did receive two an email and a letter uh
which is before you uh we also received
uh two phone calls uh opposing the
proposed special use permit uh staff did
receive also a phone call supporting the
proposed special use permit uh
essentially stating that there's a
school right there makes sense if you
will uh the people opposing it uh as you
read in your letters uh bringing up
issues with traffic uh potential
additional noise uh the blocking of
driveways and so forth like that uh we
also had two phone calls with really no
issues just looking for information and
hanging up essentially on
staff so with that staff does recommend
approval for the proposed special use
permit with with the findings seen here
uh again property owner wish just to
expand her group group child to a group
childcare home to allow for more
services and uh provide that assistance
to the city uh drop off pickup locations
are optimized on site uh to promote
child safety uh state New Mexico Early
Child Care Education and Care department
and their licensing requirements will
have to be followed uh and our
requirements as well uh Child Care again
is a much needed service in the City and
surrounding neighborhood proposed SCP
does meet the purpose and intent of
section 30-2 of the 2001 zoning code and
all applicable requirements of the 2001
zoning code including updating her home
occupation will be
followed with that your options uh
ladies and gentlemen one is to vote Yes
and approve the proposed special use
permit two to deny the proposed s uh
vote to amend or place conditions on the
special use permit if deemed appropriate
by the commission
or for table postpone and direct staff
accordingly uh the applicant is here uh
if you have any questions for her uh I
stand for questions as well um on one
more note my apologies uh they want to
mention though if you do vote to deny
the proposed special use permit you will
have to provide new findings of fact uh
since staff is recommending approval and
we'll be we provided those findings so
but uh I stand for questions thank you
thank you uh does the applicant wish to
say anything before discussion you're
not obligated to
but before you get started please state
your name for the record so I can swear
you in um Catalina ACS and do you swear
or affirm the testimony you're about to
give is the truth and nothing but the
truth under penalty of law yes go ahead
um I just wanted to state that um like
um Mr AO has presented that I have been
doing this over for 13 years and I've
always had parents asking me for um to
be put on the waiting list so I do have
a possible of four people that are
interested and as we gradually enroll
them not all at one time just because it
takes time for you know parents to get
used to the new parking and and follow
protocol um and just to state that I've
always um been in compliance with zoning
in the several three um different
locations that we've been providing
Child Care um our first place of
business was on
Bridger and our second place was
Buchanan and our third place now is
Beverly so if you have any questions for
me I'd be more than welcome to answer
them great thank you any questions
commissioner
Smith chair I have one question um so
you've you currently operate with a
capacity of six children and for how
long have you been
operating um for the pretty much the 17
years of doing this and we've done
overlap as well we've done we've had
enrollments up to eight but it got
complicated and um also covid hit so we
went back to six okay so for 17 years
you've been operating a home child care
center uh with six kids yes so now your
request is to increase it by six kids to
12 yes so um
when I think about traffic I look I
think I look at some of the concerns
that people that are posing is this have
um you may have up to you know possibly
six more Vehicles staggered over time
between 7:30 and 6 p.m arrive and drop
off and pick up children okay I just
want to make sure from an impact stand
point that you know we understand how
many cars are actually going to be
increased over this over this time
period from six kids to 12 kids so what
me and my um family have decided to do
is move our personal vehicles up more
into our driveway so that'll give us at
least two two to three people to park in
our personal driveway and then those
that um for uh the curve site how it
goes around um we have we've done it in
the past where we've Peril peic sorry I
can't pronounce that word three cars
each so that's actually six um and then
everybody just backs up and moves out
correctly as as to exit out the Colac
okay so you've already increased the the
ability to have at least two cars in
your
driveway yes okay so they would not be
parked on the street they would not be
blocking traffic you're in a culd theack
and they would basically stop and enter
your home pick up their kids or or drop
their kids off so we talk a maximum 5 10
minutes if that car if a car would be
parked either in your driveway or in
front of your home yeah five or 10
minutes yes okay thank you I'm just want
to I just I'm just asking these
questions from a common sense standpoint
approach yes to how you're operating the
traffic situation with your
home so I just want to give some
clarification so that as we address some
of the um opposition to this we use
practical and pragmatic thinking right
in your opposition because if if you
just don't want it that's one thing but
if you don't want it with a really valid
reason then that's something that we
have to address as we go forward so I
just want to just kind of set that
platform right now so right thank
you any other questions or comments from
the commission all right I will go to
the public is there anybody here who
wishes to speak on this item can I just
get a show of hands real quick so I can
see all right it just looks like we got
two uh three individuals on this side I
didn't see any over here so we will
start uh with you ma'am um if you want
to come on down
good evening everybody and before you
get started please state your name so I
can s you in Valeria Holloway and do you
swear or affirm that the testimony
you're about to give is the truth and
nothing but the truth under penalty of
law yes I'll give you three minutes go
ahead thank you um I just wanted to just
iterate that um you were talking about
the multiple cars well most parents are
calling for two or three kids at a time
is there's hardly ever we ever get one
parent a parent calling for just one
child is usually a brother and a sister
maybe one has to go to school or the
other one will be at the daycare all the
time so the cars probably will not be
that
many um going in and out of her driveway
I just wanted to make that clear
that I hardly ever have families that
have just one child thank you thank you
um and then we'll
go you guys take your pick whoever wants
to go first
worry about members I walk a little slow
I have medical issues no no worries um
please state your name for the record my
name is Dominic Wong and do you swear or
affirm that the testimony you're about
to give us the truth and nothing but the
truth under penalty of law I do I'll
give you three minutes go ahead okay
I basically I live to the right of the
property and the areas of concern that I
had that my sisters we were the ones my
sister was the one who sent you the
letter and she voiced her concerns about
one being a those residential area low
traffic and and and she also she
mentioned two three other areas sir do
you mind just getting closer to the mic
so we can hear you a little bit better
thank you in
increase the increased noise noise
pollution expansion of the subject
property because if they're going to
have actually children living there how
much expansion is going to work and if
there's going to be construction
equipment and stuff trucks going in and
out of the area and then and as far as
as far as the people that live in that
area there's a lot of elderly there a
lot of retired people like myself and
some of us have medical issues and how
is this going to affect us with all this
extra stuff going on and for how long is
it going to last and and the biggest
concern of course was property values uh
the one thing that we were concerned
about it's in your letter was my my
sisters have experience with this type
of situation before in the
past and and the biggest thing is when
you have a residential area changing
over into a commercial Zone area
property values around that area seem to
depreciate and if we try to sell our our
property in the future how much of the
value is going to lose how much are we
going to lose in the property value how
much should we be able to sell our
property for that was one of the biggest
concerns and we presented that to Mr oo
and we're trying to figure out what's
going on if if it goes through I I don't
have we have a good relationship with
the individuals that live in that
property property with the child
care but the biggest thing of course is
how it affects the rest rest of us as
our properties because if it comes in
and we try to sell the house how much do
we lose because just because in this
past experience that my sisters have
have been through with with others with
other situations with other people in
their residential
areas there was a very substantial
amount of money they they lost quite a
bit people living in the area their
property values depreciate a very
substantial amount if if there's any
kind of guarantee that we can have I
don't know if we can have it in writing
or or I don't know if if something
that's verbal it will will will stand up
but we would like to have something
that's solid that's saying that in the
future when we try to sell our property
that we won't lose our property
value thank you very much you have one
second anything else thank you thank you
thank you very much board members you
guys have a good evening thank you you
too all right there was at least one
more hand so please come
[Music]
down
hello uh and do you swear or affirm that
testimony you're about to give us the
truth and nothing but the truth under
penalty of law yes I do go ahead um
honestly I'm a parent uh that drops off
his children there um I don't is there
any way you can pull up a little cold
attack
um and honestly I think um the gentleman
might be a little misunderstood of like
contract or like contractors coming in
and building she's not building or doing
anything extra um oh I don't know if
you're able to zoom in on that c a sack
there no you're not able to um when I
pull in to drop off my child I actually
never see any other like any other
parents maybe one and honestly the best
part about the way they're set up is I'm
able to just drive pull in usually I'm
the one that pulls in all the way up the
driveway and in reality they have
probably at least a good room for four
vehicles to get in and out pretty easily
um but if you notice around the CAC in
the front of their house when people
pull up you can park four or five cars
and you're not blocking anything
anywhere along the way um being able to
go in and out very quickly um that's
probably like the best thing is that
we're able to mobile check in our
children instead of having to get off or
we get off at the door and boom we're
out she usually the kids usually run in
it's not not even five minutes honestly
I'm not even there um but the truth is
is everyone actually all these are
parents here and everyone has at least
two kids that are going in there so for
the being more Mobility more vehicles or
being worried about parking and stuff
like that for Miss Catalina I honestly
there's plenty of room and plenty of
space just within the front of her own
house for at least seven to eight
Vehicles easy but um yeah I just wanted
to clarify that little area but honestly
she has just about everything that she
needs and honestly very convenient area
um I don't see them anyone losing
depreciation especially if you have a
new home or new home owners coming in
with new kids you got a Elementary right
there you got the hospital right there
honestly I think this will probably even
bring up appreciation in the
neighborhood just cuz you got child care
for anyone that's new that has coming in
with a new single family or more than
one family I mean you're kind of there
but I appreciate your time and you're
listening thank
you all right did I see
another hand up on the
side y do you wish to speak you don't
have to
okay gotcha okay thank you um coming
back to this side just real quick no
other hands all right close public
comment come back to the commission um
commissioner Smith you want to make a
statement I don't have a question I just
have a comment um we've had a number of
um applicants come forward with um
requests to either establish or increase
the number of uh um children that they
have in their home child care business
and
um you know there's a there is a
shortage of child care there's a
shortage of affordable child care um in
in the city and you know we have an
applicant who has had a very good um
home child care center in her home for
17 years and you know I I want to
address Mr Wong your concerns um you
know we as I said earlier we do get a
number of these applications over over
the years and one thing that always
comes up is a decrease in property
values and not one time has someone
who's had an issue or concern about
property values provided us with any
data any studies anything that says that
this actually occurs um I'm just I'm
just a practical thinking guy and I
can't imagine that having six
kids arrive over a staggered period of
time during the day would cause your
property value to go down it's a
neighborhood neighborhoods have kids you
have people of different ages you have
elderly people you have young families
kids running around the neighborhood Le
they used to when I was growing up so I
don't see how that's a detriment to your
neighborhood to have kids or hear the
sound of kids laughing and playing in
the backyard how is that a bad thing how
is that noise
pollution I'm just
putting that out there because I just it
just I get concerned when people
make complaints and they they bring up
narrative that don't fit any reality as
far as you know property values going
down if they do provide us the data we
could make a we could make help make a
decision based on that but it's just
seems like it's it's useless to even
bring that up when that when that occurs
so I respect your concerns Mr Wong I
just we operate from a place of reality
and
practicality as as Commissioners on this
board so thank
you all right looking for a motion to
approve um this uh this case and I think
this evening instead of using the um
item number because there is a typo if
we can go ahead and just State the case
number in our motion just so we're all
clear
I make a motion to approve case number
Z1
0102 Mr chair I'll second that
motion commissioner thirston
yes commissioner Smith reasons sorry I
always mess up on that I can't got to
elaborate yes based off of the the staff
uh recommendations and
yeah commissioner Smith uh yes based on
staff recommendation and um the need for
affordable uh child care in the city of
Los
Cruses commissioner
Costa yes based on U staff's
recommendation commissioner Murray uh
yes based off the need of affordable
child care and staff
recommendation and chair yes based on
staff recommendation and consistency
with Elevate L Cruis thank
you okay moving on to our final item
this evening this is case number uh 24
v0 sorry
v05
00111 a request for a variance to the
maximum uh square footage requirements
for an attached
sign good evening uh Comm Miss uh this
John Castillo for the record uh today we
have a property located at 1053 heer
Avenue who's requesting a
variance um to the maximum allowed
square footage for
signage
um the property is located at the
southwest corner of compress Road and
Haner Avenue its physical address is
1053 Haner um it's Z it's zoned to M1 M2
which is our industrial standard zoning
uh it's approximately 15.9 Acres in size
um it is a vacant abandoned cotton
processing
facility um it's also located within the
Amador proximo community plan
um they are going to be using an
existing U metal Warehouse building and
um we do have a proposal utilizing an
existing water tower that are on the
property as for their attached
signage as we can see here on the zoning
map the subject property is highlighted
uh in
yellow uh here's an aerial view of the
property um the the subject um attached
signage are going to be here located on
this um abandoned metal Warehouse as
well as the proposed one will be on this
um existing water tower on the
property so the code of requirements
under chapter 36 um section
36-46 um anybody who's uh in a
commercially zoned or industrial Zone
areas allowed 1 and 1/2 Square ft of on
premise signage for each linear foot of
exterior
wall um and then the following attached
signs would be things such as awning
signs canopies or mares uh banners roof
signs window signs um and wall signs
these wall signs could be anything that
could be uh painted on that provides any
type of advertisement or it can be an
actual a fixed sign um that's
illuminated or just a some type of board
or
anything uh so the proposed sign that
we're looking at for the area is going
to be um an 828 logo uh logo uh it will
be illuminated and it'll be located on
the water tower as you can see from the
artist rendering as well as um looking
at the water tower that's existing as
is the other sign is a constructed sign
um that has the a28 logo on it as well
um this can be seen from Amador Avenue
um it does sit back approximately 260 ft
if not a little bit
more so the analysis of this is the the
painted sign is on an existing metal
Warehouse um as you know it is an
abandoned warehouse at the moment uh the
sign was installed without of permit um
based on the linear foot it does have um
it is only allowed 150 square ft maximum
uh the current sign is 546 ft in size so
we're requesting a deviation of 39 6 ft
uh the proposed illuminated sign which
would be located on the water tower um
based on some rough calculations of
trying to find an area of a a cylinder
um we've roughly come up with 70.5
square ft uh the sign that they're going
to be proposing is going to be roughly
about 10 ft High um and we'll have a
maximum square footage of 837 Square ft
um so they're requesting a deviation of
7665 Square fet um
the applicant wasn't also aware of the
requirements for the signed permit um it
was just erected or painted on at one
point from one day to the
next um under the zoning code um Article
2 Section 38-10 um for the variance
request they are um set to provide uh
criteria of hardships um these are not
self-imposed hardships so one of them um
that the applicant was speaking to was a
physical hardship um being that the the
building is offset from
Amador um the sign does bring
significant attention um as you drive
along Amador Avenue um as it sits
further back it also shows a commitment
to the community for a future film
studio that's going to be provided there
or developed there on the the
site um the other part is uh potential
for spurring economic development um
this may or may not spur economic
development at a Citywide or Statewide
level the applicant has stated that um
through Investments uh done by on behalf
of the city as well um through uh Lita
project um there are going to be
um monies that are brought in um in
excess of 350 million both from the film
industry on a state level as well as
into the city as well um as the film
studio gets developed it brings in jobs
it will keep and maintain jobs on the
property
um and also it's going to be Revitalize
and establish neighborhood by creating a
dynamic
destination um the other hardship there
um would be is if it does get denied the
cost of already uh placing the sign on
the property they would have to then
remove it um thus painting over it or re
sanding it however it would be to be
removed uh today's staff recommendation
is denial uh while discussing it with
all staff members it wasn't a un animous
denial um many of us felt that the sign
was not a big issue other than exceeding
it and not being done without a permit
um so staff still provided a
recommendation of denial um we did not
find any significant safety Health and
Welfare issues identified um the
findings of facts for the denial are the
sign the existing attached sign was
installed without a permit um the
existing attached sign exceeded all
allowed maximum square footage
and the request for the variance does
not meet the criteria for decisions as
outlined in Article 2 Section 38- J or
38-10 J of the 2001 zoning
code public notice was sent out to all
relevant agencies and departments um
they all supported the proposed variance
um notice was also sent out to
surrounding properties within 500 ft um
staff did receive two phone calls that
were in uh support of the
variance um they're excited to see what
the future development is going to bring
forth as far as
revitalization um and that it's bringing
well needed attention to the
area uh today your options are to vote
Yes to approve uh vote no to deny or
vote Yes with conditions or vote to
table right thank you is the applicant
here that wishes to make a
statement yes yes
is let's have the applicant go first
yeah
and before you get started please state
your name for the record my name is
Jonathan sep and do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you're about to give
is the truth and nothing but the truth
and our penalty of law yes sir go
ahead good evening chair uh
Commissioners and staff uh my name is
Jonathan sep as I stated and I am the uh
manager of operations and public affairs
for 828 Productions uh I appreciate the
opportunity to be here with you all this
evening and also very thankful for
Castillo Sarah Gonzalez and other City
staff that has assisted us throughout
this process um it is our hope that we
will be allowed to keep our current uh
painted sign and install uh up to three
uh 828 signs on our water tower both
located at 1053 Haner uh this alongside
our adjacent uh property at 300 South
compress is our 35 Acre Site intended
for cinematic infrastructure
strategically positioned just minutes
from downtown Los cruus for those from
for those unfamiliar with 828
Productions uh we are your local film
studio and production company uh we have
a leadup partnership with the state of
New Mexico and city of Los crusis
highlights from our commitment uh under
that partnership include investing $75
million in cinematic infrastructure
spending $350 million on production in
New Mexico and to create 100
jobs a2a Productions is rooted firmly in
the film industry here in Los crusis and
the future that that it holds
um and our bold signage uh we feel is
essential to establishing our brand
identity and creating a creating spaces
uh for film and television Productions
to enjoy doing business in Los Cruses if
our requested allowance is granted I am
confident in saying that these signs and
our investment in branding uh will spur
Economic Development um at both the
neighborhood and city-wide level uh
thank you all for uh uh hearing us
tonight and I am open for any questions
thank okay commissioner Murray you had a
question question for staff please ask
it could you maybe go back to the sign
that shows the 828 on the middle
building just for understanding
purposes since they painted the
background black you're considering that
entire portion square footage to the
sign and not just considering the 828
numbers as a portion of the the sign
only in another word if they did not
paint the background black and only did
I don't know the letters or numbers in
Black would you consider that the same
thing or would you just consider the
square footage of the numbers Mr chair
commissioner uh Murray the the square
footage that was obtained was from the
actual size of the 828 um both the
height and the length um that goes
beyond what is allotted based on the
linear foot of the
building okay that makes sense and then
on the um water tower portion if they
were to get approval and to illuminate
it how is that being illuminated is it
kind of like back lit or is it
shining like with
uplighting uh yes so we are we currently
um got a we currently received a mockup
a 4 foot mockup of this and it is I
don't think I can explain very well but
it is lit inside uh with a black with a
back glow but our intent with the
lighting of this sign uh is to stay
within uh the the lighting
code okay those are my only two
questions any other questions from the
commission I do I'm just trying to
figure out how how to articulate it
um this is a question for the applicant
um I mean and and you were unaware that
you need a permit to to you know um
erect or paint a sign U fairly large
sign um you know if if this
is denied do you have another option for
signage that will be within compliance
because I know it's big it's bold but
you know I live near that you know near
your building you know I'm in that
Community when I first saw it it was
just an
828 there was no 828.com there was no
anything that indicated that you were a
studio so as I look at your proposal and
your request to have 828 on a water
tower it's just 828 it could just be an
address number so you know do you have
you know a second option that will help
you come within compliance um so that
you can have you know some signage you
know for your for your property and for
your business uh chair uh commissioner
Smith thank you for your question uh at
the at this moment uh for these two uh
buildings in particular we do not have
alternative sign options uh available to
us at the
moment all right my second question is I
know um you know you want to have you
know this large signage to bring
attention to your business but um you
know we live in a social media digital
advertising world I think you're going
to you would get much more bang for your
buck by you know doing social media uh
as you're well aware I'm sure being a
production company um you know I'm just
you know just uh curious as to why you
feel like just having this this big bold
statement is that critical to the
success of your business when you can
actually come up with a a plan that will
that will you know um comply with City
standards and and code for signage uh
chair uh commissioner I I appreciate
that note
um I don't know how to say this without
being cheesy but but we are a film
production company we are a film studio
we have a water tower on our lot it it
would be uh against our um creative
nature to not want to do a big bold sign
on a water tower uh similar to uh many
other companies that have done uh
similar
signage I I I I understand what you're
coming from from I mean know you have
you go to Hollywood you got the big
Hollywood signs you got movie you know
Studios in Hollywood they got big bow
signs so you want to have a big bow sign
here
um you know it's just um we're not
Hollywood and we're not you know some of
the other areas that are doing big Film
Production and um you know we we still
have codes and standards that you that
have to be complied with and um and I
like I although I appreciate and respect
you know your Creative Vision um you
know I
yeah it's you
still you know the big sign that you
already have it's it's it's you know
it's going to be difficult um
[Music]
to have that be a valid reason you know
um to you know um agree with that
so any other
questions I I got one um chair U for the
applicant uh you say the economic
development uh that we're going to be
that the city is going to receive is
you're planning on the $75 million and
possibly up to 350 million do you have a
time frame in which you guys are
projecting that out is that a five year
is that a 30y year uh chair commissioner
yes and I do apologize that I don't have
those specific numbers in or those
specific dates in front of me but each
of those uh commitments does have a a
schedule attached to them uh and they
range from 2028 to 2031 and I apologize
I cannot be more specific as to which
one relates to those um but I I could
happily um come back with that
information if if that is
helpful yeah just I was just more
Curious on the actual time frame because
if you know a company comes in and says
I'm going to give you $75 million but
it's over 50 years it's not that big of
an impact to the to the community it is
a good impact but it's not as much as we
would think by when you see the the
large number um the the only other thing
that I see on here is if
for for
me
to sometimes around the the city I I
like to see things become you know more
attractive and so it that your proposed
sign on the left it looks attractive
because the the uh it's it's new right
the building the water tower is nice and
shiny and then you go to the water tower
on the right which is actual and it's
not shiny it's not new so in in that
update I personally would say if in
order to approve something I would I
would like to put like a condition on it
that you at least paint you know and
paint the entire water tower type of a
deal and then be able to put your sign
on there to at least make it more
attractive than just slapping a sign on
there that would be something in and on
my side of thinking that that could be
one of the conditions to actually at
least be more
attractive any other
questions commissioner Costa Mr chair
this is a question for
staff if I were to if we were to look at
a variance on this based on what is in
front of us with physical hardship uh
spur Economic Development and monetary
consideration um based on your expertise
would any of these three criterias fit
for a
verid um chair commissioner Goa that's
how we got you on the on the commission
so thank you for that question Adam
Community Development for the record
again um so this one was really a
difficult one for staff to come to a
general consensus uh when this is
technically John's case but we come
together as as a planning team and see
since we have such a very limited those
three items how we could recommend
approval for something uh some things
are pretty easily seen uh in the past
we've had a a uh free sing sign here for
loves that got a variance and alss that
got a variance that one was pretty cut
and dry because not only um uh did they
provide actual engineering fact showing
that this sign has to be this tall and
this big in order to exit safely off of
a freeway okay that's a physical
hardship uh this one
staff was trying to wrap their right
amount well yeah I guess it's kind of a
physical hardship because the buildings
kind of moved back so you can't really
see from Amador the only role principal
arterial in kind of a more older area
some staff disagreed uh staff also
brought up about the economic
development that one was probably one of
the strongest one that standpoint uh and
it's potential yes it does have a
potential for doing that uh but it just
wasn't that clear as like if it would be
an all subs or a or or a loves that were
basically under construction right then
and there uh and then the last piece of
uh uh the monetary hardship uh again yes
they already invested or they are
investing into the property including
the sign as well um so that's why I was
kind of left up in the air uh but staff
still again couldn't have a a
concrete uh way to choose one of those
three items of our criteria to recommend
approval which is why it was kind of
like
denial sure I guess just just because of
that fact that being said though staff
just kind of like got together well
let's just put everything in on the
table for the commissions just to we
could get our thoughts and uh not only
the facts of code but our thoughts as
staff and leave it up to yall because
y'all can then just find if you feel
that it does meet economic it'll SP
Economic Development by all means that
is a finding because that's how you're
interpreting the code uh or the monetary
hardship that could be a f an effect or
physical hardship you as a commission
have that ability since it is your
decision or criteria uh that you're
you'll be voting on staff is just here
to present what staff is interpreting
per code man I know that's a load of
question but I think hopefully that kind
of clarifies everything for
you any other
questions yeah Mr chairman if I may
please uh Nichols for the
record um it depends on how the
commission makes the decision to approve
or to
deny U I would ask this stipulation if
you do approve the variance uh I'm in
agreement with commissioner thirston I
think the the water tower would need to
be improved in terms of its appearance
uh but most importantly uh I would also
want to condition that the uh the sign
was uh placed without a permit uh we
issue permits and we have a fee on the
permit and anytime a work is conducted
uh without a permit uh we have a a
penalty for doing that uh so we want to
see that penalty fee are charged uh if
it approval is for the variance the
penalty fee for that sign that was
painted without a permit and then we
would want them to get a permit for the
sign that they're going to do
if the commission decides on
denial then U those two conditions would
not be
applicable thank
you thanks for that clarification um
commissioner Smith do you want say yeah
that um kind of leads to the question I
had from a um the sign that's already
been erected or painted um got no staff
you stated that it was a soft denial as
as the term you use um and my question
was is there a way for um the current
sign to remain in place with penalty and
then um they would have to come
back uh or reapply or re request um for
approval for this Tower sign or are we
just voting on both I mean basically
voting on overall denial or approval
with
conditions Mr chair uh commissioner
Smith that again is something that that
could be left up to Y Hall you would
like to vote to if denying one approving
the other based on whatever findings you
feel uh fit to approve or deny those uh
that'd be up to you but the application
is for right now currently as one
application for two signs uh that'd be
something of possibly even speaking to
the to the afan he' be willing to split
those up if you will or uh but but like
I said what's before you now is the two
signs of the proposed one and the
existing I think it would just be
efficient to do both because he they
would still have to come back for
variance on the the one that's currently
painted so I think we just address both
of these tonight I from my
perspective if you present me with an
alsips and a loves and this I take this
every day I mean
come on we we approve a variance for a
gas station sign but we're going to
nitpick I mean this thing actually you
know is interesting in my mind um
there's a a Shell gas station sign tall
freestanding sign that when I'm walking
in the neighborhood at dusk I swear
every time I look at I think it's the
full moon be and it's just ridiculous so
I mean to me this is this is great I
have no problems with it um if I had one
maybe critique uh um you mentioned the
828 on the water tower being
illuminated I guess two thoughts one
does it have to be illuminated um second
uh if you if I understand how you were
describing the illumination it would be
kind of like a gas station sign where
the lights
inside broadcasting out is that correct
uh chair uh thank you for the question
um so the lighting has like a a sof soft
white face that does um extrude forward
uh but the primary lighting feature is
to the back of it or at least that's the
the current uh planning and thoughts
behind uh the first rendition that we
had created okay um I think I kind of
understand what you're saying um so I
guess my my first question is does it
have to be illuminated number one so
I'll let you address chair commission uh
that is our preference uh we we would
prefer to have it illuminated okay and
and then did you give any consideration
to maybe just doing paint and then
having lights that just
broadcast onto the onto the water tower
as opposed to light
Illuminating off the water tower chair
commission yes there was uh discussions
around that and we ultimately decided
that for our ultimate branding vision
and and the way that some of our other
signs are going to look like across our
other properties in Los cruus this was
the the the fit that we wanted for this
was a mixture of the 3D illuminated
backlit signs with the flat painted
white on
black got it okay thank you
um yeah nothing further from me I think
you know if we're going to approve an
all subs and a loves I
mean this is far far more interesting in
my
opinion my my last one is is I I don't
have any issue with the with the water
tower itself i m can you go to the other
slide of the painted on the
wall that one that one has I have more
probably issue with that one than any
anything because it's more of it's
just
it I mean it's like any other other
building that we've kind of seen
throughout the town we just kind of
paint an entire wall so if I had any
issue at all I would I would come come
back and say that that's the one that we
should amend and then allow them to do
the one on the water tower I don't know
if you can split it up if that's you
know if we just say here's the
recommendation to actually come back and
get the permit for the 828 on this
building uh and possibly come within the
limits of the 828 and then allow the uh
condition on the water tower to go as is
as long as they you know maybe possibly
update it and make it a little more
appealing instead of just the way it is
that's just my personal thoughts uh of
it but not sure how to
basically that's all I
got thank you um yeah I mean it's
certainly an option I think we could do
that if we wanted to I'm just going can
you go back to the um the sign size
breakdown uh no yeah that one um so the
one that's
painted is so essentially we would be
asking them or requiring them to
um to take the current sign and shrink
it by about 80% right am I doing math
correctly
um so I mean I don't know how that would
look on a building at that point but I
mean we could that is a route if we
wanted
to yeah I I was just throwing it out
there that if if if we do have an issue
with that one we can I think there's
opportunity to change that or leave it
you know leave it as isn't given the
approval so I it's it's up to you guys I
don't have any issue with it I think
this is much preferred over a gas
station
so guess a question for the applicant do
you have a timeline on that specific
building and what the other portion of
the exterior is going to look like in
the future uh chair commissioner Murray
I really appreciate that question
um I thought just I'm going to add some
context to this real quick if if you
don't mind um so the my project manager
that had the the original sign painted
um for some reason decided that he was
going to approach it as a mural uh even
though it it it does advertise our
business which is uh called out in in
the sign code is specifically not a
mural um and so that's what sparked the
conversation between me and C between
City staff and myself uh to start
looking at a variance for that one
specific uh already painted sign um in
those discussions uh they asked you know
do do we have any other future plans for
signage on the property and that's where
we started talking about yes we do have
signs for we do have plans for signage
on the water tower uh and they
recommended uh to us that it would be
best to come to uh you all uh with both
of those options so we did have to
scramble a little bit to get our designs
rendered and start working on getting
the uh ball rolling on that so that did
start to move a little bit quicker than
we were anticipating um adding things
like painting the water towel also o
increase our timeline on that um and
actually I do not have a solid timeline
on when that sign will be created
because of the the the last minute
nature-- is of it being uh requested as
part of this uh variance request or this
allowance request um to answer your
initial
question the in the the original intent
behind beautifying this property with
signage or at least that's what we like
to consider it is beautifying the area
with our signage uh is to just assist in
the in the overall look of the area as
we work through the many phases of
construction right now we are actually
primarily focused on 300 South compress
and getting a stage built there um 1053
heer is not currently on our schedule
right now to develop um so as we work on
the property adjacent to it we are going
to be working on just cleaning up the
area making it just look better and that
that is the original intent behind this
this signage and this very
requ thank you um can we just circle
through public comment just to close
that Loop and then we can finish out our
conversation so is there anybody in the
audience who wishes to speak on this
item all right seeing none we'll come
back final thoughts questions
concerns commissioner Smith I just one
quick question for staff um so this is
this would be a pretty significant
variance as far as size um of of signage
um from um you know the existing uh code
um I mean it will we be setting some
precedent from you know
for for this size of a variance I have
one question to add on to that in the
new code that we're reading does a
variance not set presidence based on how
the new code's written if you could
touch on that point too while you hit
his um chair commissioner Smith um
so president is it difficult to really
uh say well they they did it well that
doesn't matter they went through a
process in order to do what they did did
so whoever would want to come out here
would have to go through the exact same
process and
essentially like a better wordss sell
why that variance is is a good thing and
it doesn't meet the criteria which I
believe he actually very nicely
explained his his his view from an
economic standpoint how it would uh uh
potentially help the city if you will
from an economic standpoint uh
additionally on top of that a variance
does stay with a property variance does
does not leave it it sticks with that
property now a future code comes along
that is a little more lenient uh that
would allow by R now to no longer need
in a variance that's a potential as well
sir uh as well
as our code right now
is a little dated I I hate to say just
because of its age uh it doesn't really
distinguish between you wrote three
letters on there or just a logo on there
to what an actual sign is is just
considered an attached sign whether it's
an attached sign that's got fireworks
blowing off on it and a rhino one
running across of it 3D style or
something that's painted on a on a piece
of metal that's that's part of the wall
that that's kind of a little bit of
shortcomings of our code right now it's
it's gotten some clarification where our
new codes uh but like I said variances
they stick with the property
uh just basically sticks to the property
until it either comes into compliance by
themselves or whatever else happens in
the future with it
yeah commissioner Smith I'm pretty sure
I don't know the exact numbers but the
the loves and the alsips that we've
recently approved I think it was similar
in in the the amount of variants that
they were asking for I think the one out
on the West Mesa it specifically
included the fact that they could put it
on like a 200 foot pole um so I mean I
think there's no this to my mind this
isn't any real significantly different
than what we've already done and if I
could clarify chair pardon me uh those
signs were actually four times the the
height of the sign that was allowed
there by right and not only not only by
height but by square footage they're
almost tripled as well 're rather rather
large yes
sir and I just have one more just
comment or or question for the applicant
um you know as as commissioner Kaiser
said you know it's like we have you know
love signs that are big and bright and
shell signs that look like the moon um
you know as far as like having a sign on
the tower I'm going back to his original
question about lighting you know um
it'll be evident because you're going to
have you would have an 828 on a water
tower that alone would draw people's
attention and at night I think just from
uh just a a neighborhood compatibility
as far as lighting um as as he suggested
you know maybe just have it painted and
then have some lights projected on it
you know similar to what you would see
you know in Hollywood you know just have
a you a light projector on the sign uh I
I understand your creativity and and you
want to really bring attention to it but
you know we're trying to help you know
make a decision here and I think from a
a lighting standpoint we can't go from
you know big giant bright love sign that
they have that you know that it's kind
of a you know not really that sight you
know positive sight to see as opposed to
you coming up with something that's just
as bright you know
so I'm sorry I guess accommodation
question and comment
so PA just point of clarity um so just
if we I any type of illumin sign will
have to follow out your lighting
ordinance we do currently in the city of
Las Cruz have a night sky ordinance as
well well sir uh so there's requirements
where depending where you are it could
only be so bright at night so bright
during the day so on and so forth like
that so we do have that code in place as
well so that is require that really
helps yeah thank you very
much uh chair commissioner uh Smith if I
could also uh touch on that I appreciate
the comment and and the note there um
part of the plan with the lighting is to
be able to have it remote um like LED
lights and then to be able to dim it
brighten it to have full control over
the color and the the the Luminosity of
as well I appreciate that my my biggest
concern was just how bright you know it
would be and and but now I know that
there's definitely a lighting code that
you have you would have to comply with
that helps a lot appreciate
it all right so I think we're looking
for a motion to approve since um it does
need to be an affirmative my
recommendation would be we add the
condition um that Mr Nicholls suggested
about getting the appropriate um uh
permits for both
signs um as part of your motion to
approve and would that also include the
penalty for the
sign Mr chair I'm going to give it a
whack here
um I'd like to approve granting a
variance is that correct case number
case number like to approve approve case
number 24 v0 sorry
24v
05111 granting of variance um based on
findings of uh spurring Economic
Development and
mod monetary con cons
considerations um to
include I'm sorry conditions of the
following uh for the tower the
appearance needs to be pristine and
brand new all the way from top to bottom
uh all penalty fees will apply to this
particular case uh
for any penalties that need to be
applied um the applicate shall apply for
all permits as
required for both
signs I think I got them all think we
got it so we'll look for a
second I
second go ahead and call the vote for uh
case number
24 vo
50111 commissioner
thirston yes based on the economic
development impact that'll give us and
also the discussion we had
commissioner
Smith uh I vote Yes with conditions as
um as laid out by uh commissioner Costa
and uh also
um that having you know um a new local
business uh an ability to advertise and
and bring in Revenue um is would be good
for the
City Commissioner a Costa yes based on
the new findings of uh Economic
Development commissioner Murray yes
based on economic development and the
Simplicity of the sign compared to other
gas station
signs and chair uh yes based on the
discussion this evening um and the
economic potential and benefit that this
business will bring to downtown in the
city thank you
okay that was our final item this
evening um any announcements from staff
uh yes chair just a reminder we will be
having a uh work session next week for
uh realize last Cruis uh so that work
session is scheduled for next week here
you got all your packets already and
your books hope you guys like reading
those I know we've been having a great
time doing it uh just to one other
announcement our planning zoning
Commission meetings for the November uh
planning zoning commission and the
December planning zoning
commission pardon me will be moved up
one week due to the holidays uh we don't
want you all to have to move your
holiday plans around because essentially
we kept them where they're at you're
linting up with Thanksgiving and and
winter the winter holidays let's put it
that way for be be politically correct
so for your so for your records the
November meeting will be on excuse me
November uh
19th and for December it'll be on
December 17th the 3D Tuesday of the
month for both of
those uh but that is uh all that we have
for staff announcement sir thank you
excellent thank you um all right looking
for a motion to
adjourn motion to adjourn second all in
favor I I thank you all for coming out
this evening we'll see you next week