[Music]
All right. Good evening, ladies and
gentlemen. Welcome to the March 25th uh
city of Los Cusus Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting. We'll go ahead and
call this meeting to order. I appreciate
your patience this evening. We had some
technical difficulties that we um just
got resolved. So, uh, we will go ahead
and, um, ask if there's any conflicts of
interest this evening from our
commissioner. Seeing none, um, looking
to any members of the public who wish to
speak on an item that is not on
tonight's agenda. Can I see a raise of
hands? All right, seeing none, we'll go
ahead and close that portion of uh,
public participation. And um before we
move to the acceptance of tonight's
agenda, um are there any uh comments or
uh corrections that need to be made to
um the meeting minutes from
February? Right. Seeing none, um we'll
go ahead and look for a motion to accept
tonight's agenda. Mr. Chair, I make a
motion to accept uh the agenda as
presented.
I second.
Commissioner Thirstston. Yes.
Commissioner Costa, yes.
Commissioner Smith, yes. And
Commissioner Costa, yes. And chair, yes.
Thank you.
All right, we will move directly into
new business. Item 6.1 is a request for
approval of a preliminary plat uh known
as the Heather Hills subdivision. And I
will turn it over to staff for
presentation.
Thank you, Chair Adamoa for the uh
community development for the record. Uh
first case we have before you is case 24
CS05 00000025 which is a proposed
preliminary plant known as the Heather
Hills preliminary plant. Uh it is
located uh with an actual address of
5150 Stern Drive. Total area encompasses
roughly 22 acres in size and is
currently zone R1A which is single
family medium density would be NH1S
under realize. Uh it is located within
what is the sub suburban neighborhood
place type under elevate Los Cusus. Uh
it is accessible through uh uh Silverado
Loop which comes off of Stern Drive uh
and then heads down south off of what is
uh Pebble Brook Drive down to Rocky
Drive which is out into the county. Give
you an idea where this is. uh Stern
Drive being the main access for this
point. That is a designated minor
arterial roadway is designated not only
by elevate loss cruises but also the
metropolitan planning organization
thriller plan and Rocky Road is uh
designated as a collector roadway as
well. Uh just to give you an idea of
what's around there and I'll show you a
little bit more when we get to the
aerials. Uh there are single family
residential uses which is basically the
northern portion of this master plan
area to the north single family
residential uh standard industrial uh
low density residential land uses and
multifamily low density to the south uh
interstate uh tent to the east and
agricultural to the
west. showing the property here. Um I
don't know I think somewhere over here
uh back a few years ago where this area
was actually the master plan was amended
uh in order to allow for this
subdivision. Uh so this was part of the
the Heather Hills master plan area. So
showing here that R1A area that we're
speaking of right
now. Here is that aerial showing that
undeveloped area industrial area uh
residential multif family to the south
that other existing single family
residential to the north and agriculture
to the
west. Here is what that preliminary plat
looks like. So this preliminary plat
does follow what the master plan called
out for. Uh the master plan was approved
back in uh November of uh 2023 by the
planning and zoning commission. uh
basically eliminated a condition on the
property which limited this property to
only be developed for essentially a
school or institutional use. That
condition was removed by the planning
zone commission uh on the master plan
and the zone zoning then went up to city
council and that was approved as well to
remove the condition in uh February of
2024. So this new preliminary plat here
of Heather Hill subdivision does follow
the master plan as required by the city
of Los Cruus subdivision code.
just a mer uh get you kind of oriented
where this is. So this is looking
northeast uh off of Silverado Loop off
of Stern Drive. So this will be one of
the main entry points here looking on uh
Silverado Loop looking west towards the
uh where that uh development will be
taking place there. You can see it that
raw land is to the west looking down
south to that industrial property is
south of the property. the proposed
northern access point to that existing
subdivision uh to the north access
point continuing down south and of
course that there's that cobblestone
creek that which extends down south to
the subdivision as well.
So when staff did their analysis, we
didn't we didn't see any health, safety,
welfare issues associated with the
proposed preliminary plan. And on top of
that, as as stated before, the uh one of
the biggest things that a preliminary
plan is required to do is follow an
approved master plan, which this does.
It does uh follow the uh the uh Heather
Hills master plan. Uh it does follow all
zoning regulations per lot size
requirement, dimensions, uh development
standards, so forth like that, and
existing development in the area.
uh public notice was sent out uh to all
adjacent property owners as required by
code staff received one phone call just
inquiring inquiring about the
development and its status as in when
the next phase will happen when the
development happens and so on and so
forth like
that. Uh with that, um
oops, my apologies. This should be
first. Uh on February 19th of 2024, the
DRC uh did uh review this proposed
preliminary plan after some minor
discussion, excuse me, between staff and
the applicant for some minor changes
that needed to be done to the plat uh
that could be done administratively
before coming before the plan is
commission. Uh DRC did recommend
approval for the proposed preliminary
plat. So with that uh staff and the DRC
does recommend approval uh based on the
following findings. Plat follows all
requirements of the master plan in the
R1A zoning district. Um it is uh it has
significant neighborhood compat
compatibility with what is the existing
already developed northern uh master
plan area. Uh the request is consistent
with sub suburban neighborhood play type
as called out by elevate loss cruises as
well as meets the purpose and intent of
the 2001 zoning code the las cruises
subdivision code and las cruises
municipal code section
2-382. So with that your options are one
vote to yes vote yes and approve the
proposed preliminary plan as recommended
by staff and uh the DRC to vote no and
deny. uh two three to vote to amend or
four table uh vote to table and postpone
to direct staff accordingly. That is the
conclusion of my uh presentation. The
applicant and the representative are
here for any questions and I stand for
questions. Thank you. Any questions from
the
commission? Um I've got a couple
questions. Um first question is um
making the assumption that this they're
following the previous development code,
not the one that was just adopted.
Correct, Mr. Chair. That is correct. Uh
they are because
uh this master plan and everything was
approved under the previous code of the
2000 zoning code and the previous
subdivision code. That is what they're
following. That is correct, sir. Okay.
Thank you. Um and then just have some a
couple of questions. Um
uh maybe I'll just start with what maybe
is the easy uh ones first. So, I notice
there's um there's a tract B,
uh
tract
E, and a tract
D. Um I'm not sure if there's a track C
or not, but I'm wondering if you can
speak to what those what those tracks
are for.
The representative will be more happy to
take care of that for you, sir. Thank
you. Y please come forward.
And before you answer that question, I'm
going to need to swear you in. So, if
you can state your name for the record.
Can you state your name for the record?
Zack Libbon. And do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you're about to give
is the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law? I do. Okay. Go
ahead, please.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, my name is
Zach Libbon, Libon Underwood Engineering
and Surveying. And uh to answer your
questions, tract A is to be dedicated
for right away to the NMDOT along Stern
Drive. Uh tract C is a 20 foot platted
road that runs along between that sort
sort of industrial zoned area and the
residential lots
um along Yeah, I can see that now. So
that that's going to be dedicated and
improved as a road like an alley. No,
what it's gonna what track C is doing is
dedicating half to those other property
owners and half to this subdivision
because that was a a platted but never
dedicated or accepted road and it
doesn't go anywhere and it's just a no
man's land there that doesn't go
anywhere and rather than leaving a no
man's land there that could be
problematic. It's being split half and
half with those adjoining property
owners and specifically track C is the
ones being uh dedicated to the other
property owners.
Okay. And then tract E and and D. Tract
E is an existing utility easement and
that is going to be dedicated to the
city. It it contains a a wide variety of
utilities there. It's going to be
asphalt and asphalted and left as a
utility track there. Again, it includes
a a city sewer line, a water service,
and
uh telecom utilities. It's got a bunch
of utilities in there and that's being
dedicated to the
city. And then tract B and D are the
ponds. It has an attenuation pond as the
storm water comes underneath the
interstate. It's got an attenuation
there so that that can be
uh allow the sediment to drop out and
then be channeled in down the road from
there. But uh again, sort of a feature
to allow
that drainage coming underneath the
interstate to then come in in a in a
manageable way in a m maintainable
fashion. Okay. Thank you. Um, two
follow-up questions. I think these are
more directed to staff. Um, so on tract
E, that utility
easement, it's going to be paved
completely.
That's a little over a tenth of an acre.
Completely paved. Mr. Chair, that is
correct. It'll be paved.
No landscaping, just pure asphalt. Mr.
chair. Landscaping typically isn't uh
allowed in utility easements just
because of the potential of uh any type
of vegetation uh messing with
underground utilities in the area. Um a
lot of our utility department, other
utility departments of pass electric,
they kind of have headaches sometimes
when we do do landscaping. So that's why
it's just being paid for now for it
could just be utilized by the city as
they need in the future. Sir, okay, that
seems a little excessive to me. um that
we would just pave a tenth of an acre
for the occasional access. Um my
preference would be if we can't do some
sort of landscaping to just leave it as
a desert scrub. Um it just seems in
today's day and age uh the urban heat
island that seems just to be a little
unnecessary in my opinion.
Um, and then tract
C, could you speak a little bit more
about how that plays into just the
overall development plan of the area? It
seems like I understand what the
applicant just said, but we've
got
two potentially three culde-sacs
uh that could have potentially connected
and made a more um connected network
there in the neighborhood, especially
with future development potentially. And
I did actually have a question along
those lines. I believe, but your aerial
image in the presentation was different
than was in the staff report, but that
there looks like there's an existing
subdivision. I guess this would be to
the
uh east um not the industrial part, but
looks like a mobile home park. Maybe
that there's a dead end of one of those
roads that would presumably could have
been a connection point. Um just if you
could speak to sort of the connectivity
and how it fits with future development
that'd be great. It's just along the
utility though right it's
just there and it was already vacated
there right
Mr. Sure. So that was what what what was
the joys of was the elephant but land
and trust company uh where they just
basically somebody in a larger city went
and draw drew imaginary lines out in the
desert. So this was a 20ft road that
they they drew on a plat uh that really
went nowhere unfortunately. Uh it's
already been vacated to the north.
That's where it went into that
residential subdivision to the north.
But it did really didn't go any further
south than that sir. uh it kind of
terminated right where it was in that
industrial area. Excuse me. Um not only
that, but I believe the uh actual
trailer park
that Laron Road that's called out as a
road, I believe that's just an easement
as well. So it's not an actual rideway
that would allow for connectivity,
unfortunately, sir.
Okay. But presumably if the if the
um uh those two lots that I guess are
manufacturing or some something right
now, if those were to be developed in
the future
presumably well, I guess there there
wouldn't be a road because it would just
be it would be landlocked. Is that
correct? Or could the road extend to the
south? Mr. Jer would be lying locked
this because it cannot proceeds to the
south past that uh it ends right
essentially where that mobile home park
starts or gotcha. Okay. So this is an
awkward artifact. Yes sir. Thank you.
Um believe those are all the questions
that I have. Um and I I would encourage
staff to re um re-examine the rationale
behind paving that tenth of an acre.
Yeah, Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Uh so this is
the preliminary uh phase of this uh
during final platting and construction
drawings. That's definitely something
staff will definitely bring up to our
public works department, our utilities
department, possibly even our parks and
wreck to see if we can do something a
little more passive in that area, sir.
Appreciate that. Sure do. Um, any
question other questions from the
commission before I go to the public?
All right. See none. Um, is there
anybody in the audience who wishes to
speak on this item this evening? Can I
just see a show of
hands? I see one individual. All right.
Would you come down, sir, and we'll give
you three minutes to speak.
And before you get started, can you
state your name for the record? My name
is Jose Gyos. And do you swear or affirm
that the testimony you're about to give
is the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law? Yes. Go ahead,
sir. All right. So, I live in the u an
area just north on Dove Crossings
development. And uh Dove Crossings was
back in 2008 one of the first phases of
the building. And then recently they
completed some more houses to the south.
So the only two concerns I want to bring
up is and I've voiced this before in
previous meetings going back to 2008. uh
the need for some traffic control along
Stern especially now since another 80
homes are going to be built more lot
more traffic over the last 15 years
whatever it's been since those houses
have been built and uh between Choya and
uh it's Broadmore and Stern or Choya and
Stern which is the major intersection
not shown on the drawing but it's just
north maybe not even a quarter of a mile
north of that quite a bit more traffic
over the last 15 years have been built
up And I do I hope that we're not
waiting for an accident or some serious
injuries or deaths to occur. Uh I know
there's been a lot of close calls.
Hopefully this is taken into
consideration by the city, some sort of
traffic control. If you go in front of
the uh entrances, if you're heading
south on Stern Drive, past the Dove C
crossings major entrance and now
Silverado and Stern, which is the
entrance for the second phase and now
the third phase, um it's supposed to be
40 miles an hour. Living in the Dove
Crossings area, we got to be really be
careful because some blind spots and
people often go faster than 40 miles an
hour along that that area. And if you're
familiar with that area, they built the
I 10, I25 interchange, very large uh
bridge area. And again, there's some
blind spots looking north up Stern from
when you're exiting. So, you got to be
very careful about when you enter Stern
Drive. So, that's one concern. The
second concern is some sort of parks for
that area. Again, this is my third time
coming to a city hearing over the last
15 years, and I've heard from the
developers, yes, we're going to build a
park. There's a drainage area which is
west of these areas. It's quite large, a
retention pond they built during the
second phase going back to 2021. Uh nice
area compared to what they used to have.
It was a temporary which was weeded full
of mosquets and salt bush and a mosquito
attraction. Since they built that that
drainage area, the mosquito problem has
deteriorated quite a bit which is thank
God for that. But um a park they talked
about putting some sort of green area
for kids in that area has not been I
haven't seen any movement on that and in
fact uh it's kind of been neglected.
They have some drainage areas that go
into the on the surface as well as
through storm water drains. Um the
surface water flow there's some ballards
there that have been an area of activity
for vandalism. The ballards there have
been removed thrown into the drainage
area. I've informed the city. So just
you know a little care for that area to
make it nice for the residents to take
their kids uh in a walk or whatever.
Thank you. Thank you.
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Um anybody else uh who wishes to speak
on this item? One last. All right.
Seeing none, um we'll come back to the
commission. Um Commissioner Smith, I
just have one more com one comment for
Mr. Gos. Um I'm I'm sensitive to your
concerns about traffic. Um I'm a cyclist
and I used to ride stern drive a lot. Um
I used to ride a lot on my on my road
bike and um I haven't ridden in years
just because of the volume of traffic
and the speed. So um definitely
appreciate your concern about that. That
is that is a legitimate concern.
Mr. Chair, go ahead. Um staff, I have a
couple of questions for you. One was um
when was the last traffic study done in
this
area? Was it recently within the last
three to five years or was it prior to
that? Mr. Chair, Commissioner Costa,
it's been about that when University
Meadows just to the north came into
effect. Uh they needed to do some type
of traffic study for that entrance there
per not only the city but NMDOT as well.
Want to remind everybody Stern Drive is
under under NMDOT's domain if you will.
So, uh, even access points, new roads
going there, and you need you need to
make, uh, receive approval from NMDOT.
So, that was the last time that was
done. Ma'am,
so,
um, my next follow-up question to that
is every time they added a new segment
of the subdivision, do they have to
renew that traffic study or would that
subdue from there? Uh, Mr. Chair, uh,
Commissioner A. Costa uh essentially
that master plan was also I'm sorry the
master plan that traffic study was also
produced not an actual traffic impact
analysis but a traffic study was also
submitted with the master plan
amendment. So they had those numbers of
the number of gener generations of trips
number of proposed houses and that was
provided to uh NMDOT as well. So any
type of improvements that they would
need at the time of construction and DOT
will make them do those improvements to
Stern Drive. Thank you. And then I have
one more question follow-up question. Um
in any of this master plan is there any
green area or parks planned to the best
of your knowledge? Uh, chair uh,
Commissioner Costa, there are there is
a, uh, since this University Meadows is
part of it as well, there was a there is
a park planned in further phases away,
which is a relatively decent sized park
uh, that was part of the master plan
area. And since this is master plan and
that's what's the area that was called
out for a for a park, that's what was
approved. Ma'am, thank you.
Yeah. Go ahead, Commissioner. And when's
the trigger for the park
meaning?
Is it after this one? Is it the next
phase? Is it the chair? What causes that
to happen? Chair Commissioner Thirst, it
depends how uh it gets phased out. So,
University Meadows was actually phased
out and that's when where the park was
supposed to be. This one is not being
phased. This is all being done at one
fell swoop. So since this is a separate
phase from that but part of the same
master planned area it's that one gets
done when that phase done it gets done
with that uh subdivision of up north. Uh
what triggers it is depending on where
it get uh the park gets designated in a
master plan or a preliminary plan. Then
at the time when finals uh final plan
construction drawings come in that's
when it gets built out essentially uh
and that's when parks rec gets involved
make sure that what facility is being
provided meets the standards of the
city.
So currently it'll just be collecting
park fees.
Mr. Chair, uh Commissioner, uh
Commissioner Thirst, that is correct.
Essentially until the park gets built, I
would say.
I have one more question. Uh regarding
parks, has looking at this development
plan, has there been an area designated
for a future park?
Uh Mr. Chair, uh, Commissioner Smith,
not in this, uh, Heather Hill
subdivision. There is no area designated
for park, sir.
But in the master plan, but in the
master plan, that is correct. There are
there is other areas in this, excuse me,
uh, in this master plan area that were
designated for parks or this master plan
was originally approved back in, I would
have to say about 2006, so over 20 years
ago now. Um so back then those standards
are a little different than they are
now. Uh so parks may be a little more
sporadic than they were uh that they are
now uh for requirements of today's code.
Yeah. Looking at this plan, I think it
was 2005. There. Yes, sir. Thank
you. So my question I guess is because I
was not here in 2006. Um, and I think
you did reference an amendment to a
master plan. Um, maybe uh 2023 I think
it was. Um, I have no recollection of of
that meeting. Um, so
where can you just kind of refresh my
memory at least of what is the master
plan and how are these components
fitting together and what what is coming
next? Sure thing. Uh, Mr. chair. The
master plan area essentially is uh I'll
crudely follow highlight it with my uh
with my cursor
here. That is essentially the entire
area. So this is what is the University
Meadows subdivision which is part of it
and this is what is the Heather Hills
subdivision that's part of it. park and
everything like that was what was being
proposed somewhere over here on one of
these phases for excuse me for uh
University Meadows. This area previous
to the amendment in 2023 was designated
for a school only. So that 2023 that
condition went away for only an
institutional use and now they're trying
to do for single family homes.
Okay. Thank you. I actually that
triggered my memory. I do remember that.
So, I guess the way that I look at it,
uh, but correct me if I'm wrong. I mean,
this is the last phase, right? I mean,
the rest
of the subdivision appears to have been
built out.
Mr. Chair, you are correct. This is this
is essentially the last phase of this uh
this master planned area. So, then the
park when is the park getting
construction? Well, my apologies. I take
that back. So this is the last phase of
what is the master plan, but University
Meadows, which is the northern one,
there's still a phase or two that need
to get get done, sir, which is where the
park is uh proposed to be located at
including an additional extension out to
another uh road out into the county to
the west as well, sir. Okay. Um, and
then just going back to the concerns
about
um, uh, traffic control um, at Stern
Drive or really anywhere along Stern
Drive in this uh, development. Um, do we
know what types of improvements the
state is going to ask for in these
particular intersections?
Mr. Mr. Chair, uh NDOT, uh in our last
conversations, they really don't uh
considering this is they still consider
this a highway. Uh putting stop signs or
lights really isn't something that they
they try to do. Uh what they try to do
is what there's where there's new
entrances or or new roadways going into
adjacent to Stern. They do uh del lanes
or deceleration lanes and acceleration
lanes as well. Uh so depending on
whatever traffic uh analysis comes up
with as to how to resolve if anything's
needed that is what to be required to do
with the improvements of the subdivision
sir.
Okay. And are are there any
conversations that happen with the
department of transportation about the
fact that we've got subdivisions, we've
got people out biking, walking. Um, I
mean, I understand that it's it's
designated a state highway, but I think
for all intents and purposes, you go out
there and it's basically a collector
road, an urban collector road. Um, or at
least it's it's certainly going to be
that. Um, are there any conversations
with the state about, hey, I know you
don't like to put up a stoplight, but
uh, we kind of need one here if we're
talking about, you know, safety. Mr.
Sure, that's definitely something staff
could bring forward and work with our
public works department and a traffic
engineering section to see if we could
open up those lines of communication as
to potentially what can be happening
even signage. I mean something like that
that can potentially help as well. We
could definitely start those
conversations
uh since that has happened in the past.
For instance, along valley uh Picacho,
there were instances where we had issues
and uh and Main Street/ Baton Memorial
and 70 uh and they've been more than
willing to help us out with with issues
like that, sir. Yeah. I mean, I I think
it's it's more than warranted here,
especially as you continue to go up. I
think there's more development that's
planned um along Stern Drive. I I think
it's time we um re-evaluate what that
what the central purpose of Stern Drive
is. And um I would sit here and argue
that it's not a it's not a rural highway
and that we can afford to put some um
traffic control devices to improve
safety.
Mr. Chair, and for the record, I concur
with that. I think public safety is is
the utmost importance here and I think
we do need to collaborate with the state
and and emphasize that.
All right. If there's no more questions
or discussion, Commissioner Thirst, I
got one more. I I just I'm I'm on this
on Google Earth here on my phone trying
to figure out your limits of the master
plan because the other the other ones
that I'm seeing
here I I'm still kind of stuck on the
park for some reason of I I it's not
clear yet as to where the rest of the
master plan is and how you're going to
put something in. But if I understand it
properly on the code for when this was
done, they probably don't have to put a
park in unless it was stated in their
master plan because then they could just
pay a fee in lie and pay the park fees
and then they wouldn't have to install a
park and then it becomes a city city's
issue to figure out how to put a park in
and buy land and other unless the master
plan designated that there was land that
was supposed to be given
Is that correct, Mr. Chair? Commissioner
Thirst, that is correct. Uh, but from
what what I recollect and again this has
been a few years since University uh
University Meadows was finalized and
approved. That should have happened here
uh in this area. Sir, u the reason that
this is uh fresh in staff's memory is
because the neighbor here to the north
were
[Music]
extremely agitated that this subdivision
was going in and they're proposing an
actual
um bump uh an
actual excuse me the road to actually be
extended through here into their
neighborhood. Uh neighborhood did not
want that because they didn't want the
traffic. The big selling point at the
time that staff was trying to push for
that road was one connectivity and then
telling them two now you have the luxury
of you have access to a park which is
pretty which is close to you which
should be around this area right here.
So that's why I'm that's why I'm more
than confident to say that in the
University Meadows uh subdivision area
there was a proposed uh park in the one
of the last phases of the actual
subdivision itself. So, do you have any
documentation of that that can show?
I don't have anything here,
unfortunately. Uh, Commissioner Thirst,
I do apologize about that because I I
know sometimes we get hung up on we get
hung up on wanting amenities at the
developer's cost, but yet it was never
it was approved in the master plan
without one, you know, in in different
cases, right? So, and and then there's
ways that the city can still receive
their funds to be able to put a park in
later.
back when. So, I'm just trying to make
sure because there's there's been other
instances where in a master plan there
was actually dedicated space that says
you're supposed to give X amount in that
area. And so, I don't I don't have
anything as of right now or any evidence
that you guys are showing me that that
we're supposed to have to put some park
in. So, as of right now, I'm I'm I'm of
the opinion that just that they're not
having to put any parks in. They just
have to pay the fee and then the city
receives the park fee in order to move
forward. Like there from what I'm seeing
there's no park that we're not going to
see a park in the area is what I'm
saying. Is that correct? Mr. Chairman,
Commissioner Thirst, you won't see it in
this subdivision, sir. But we did staff
did uh uh review the master plan and
this is align with the this does align
with the master plan, sir. The
subdivision we're reviewing tonight, it
does align with the master plan. Okay.
So, the city will just get the get the
fee to be able to put a park somewhere
in the area at a later date. However,
that was worked out. Yes, sir. Okay.
All right. Looking for a motion to
approve um item 6.1.
I move that we approve item 6.1.
I second.
Commissioner Costa. Yes,
Mr. Thirstston. Yes,
Commissioner Smith. Yes, Commissioner
Costa. Yes, and chair. Yes.
Motion passes. Uh, moving on to item
6.2. This is a request for approval uh
for some additional signage in the
university district. I will turn it back
over to staff for a presentation.
All righty, folks. Uh, Adam Matoya
Community Development for the record.
Again, next thing we have here is a
proposed sign variance for a property
located at 680 East University Avenue.
Uh, it is located on the southwest
corner, what is East University Avenue
and East Union Avenue. Uh, total
property encompasses about 8 and a half
acres in size and is the current
location of the Los Cusus Convention
Center. It is currently zone UDCZ which
stands for University District
Convention Zone. Uh as as you can tell
it is located within what is our
university district
overlay. Showing that property here the
Los Cus Convention Center University
here union here in property all around
it and then of course city limits here
to the north. um interstate here to the
southwest aerial here kind of showing
that uh the uh convention center here
and just paying close attention to this
area right here is where we're looking
at for what what the variances that
we're requesting for today. Uh and also
keeping in mind this corner here for a
previously approved uh assigned variance
that we did for the convention center a
couple years back now. So what we're
looking at is uh uh the code
requirements under section
38-44.J.6 which is the university
district overlay signage standards uh
which allows for a maximum of one uh
freestanding ground sign per lot in the
uh doesn't doesn't matter what size or
anything just one per lot. Uh ground
sign shall not exceed 24 square feet
square feet in area and ground sign
shall be uh shall not exceed 3 ft in
height max. Uh so essentially what is
happening here we're proposing variances
to these
standards. So the first variance is
uh first one would be a variance of one
freestanding sign allow for two
freestanding signs. Uh there is that one
existing kind of advertisement LED uh
signed right on the corner of university
and and union uh which did receive a
variance a few years back from the
planning zoning commission. Uh second we
have a variance to the uh of 3 ft and 4
in to the maximum permitted freestanding
side uh ground sign height for a total
of 6 feet 4 in in height and then a
variance of 261 square ft to the maximum
permitted freestanding uh size of that
size limiting it to 24 as per
code. So showing here kind of a
schematic or an artist rendition what
that sign would look like.
again that that is being located right
here where there are some existing
planters uh kind of graveled area uh
with some uh crusher
fine and there you could see that sign
how what it would look like during the
day. As you can see it's away from out
of the sidewalk kind of in the elevated
area of what is that kind of going
towards the parking area for the uh
convention center. It just basically is
a the letters that spell out Los Cruuses
on top of a platform that says the real
New Mexico with some uh designs on that
platform on the
bottom. So the justification was this
the applicant stated the sign will help
benefit uh by helping increase uh not
only community visitation to the area
for people in the city but also
travelers to visit that area as well. Uh
put more eyes in the area if you will.
Uh they stated that the you know the
tourism, travel and hospitality industry
has still kind of suffered because of CO
19 uh and you know economic hardships,
low low wages, loss of wages and uh
earning capacity has is still still
being felt in the area and they feel
that the unique attraction will help
drive uh again not only local but also
visitors uh to this area you know uh to
visit and hopefully you know spend in
those uh multiple establishments located
along the University Avenue corridor.
and LPS if you think about it as well
since it's relatively close by as
well. When staff did their analysis, we
saw no public safety, health or welfare
issues uh with the proposed sign
variance. Uh staff did did see that the
sign uh can potentially be a destination
spot. Um people photo ops so on and so
forth like that coming into town. That'd
be probably good starting point for
anybody visiting Los Cusus. uh can draw
more attention to the convention center
itself uh and the university area
corridor and the surrounding area. Uh
potentially adding uh additional
economic development and redevelopment
in the area. Hopefully uh there are some
um really relatively underdeveloped or
undeveloped lots uh close here that' be
great for for redevelopment uh more
attraction to the area for boost for
boosting the surrounding commerce. And
on top of that, the proposed variance of
the staff believes does meet the
criteria for approval for a variance as
outlined in the 2001 zoning code. Again,
spurring for economic development, not
only in an in that area, but possibly as
as a as a citywide uh initiative as
well. Public notice was sent out to all
surrounded property owners per code. Uh
we did receive one phone call uh from
adjacent property owner saying that'd be
a welcome to uh to the area and
hopefully that would show more people
coming to that area. So one phone call
in support of
that. Uh on March 3rd um the university
district citizens design review
committee mouthful uh did meet uh to
review the proposed uh variance. the
recommending body to the planning zoning
commission. Um after a very minor
discussion, uh I believe the minute was
all over six minutes long, uh the
University District Citizens Designer
Review Committee did recommend approval
for the proposed variance. Uh PNZ does
have the final uh say on variance
variances unless appealed to city
council.
So that being said, the findings for
approval are one uh the proposed sign is
aesthetically pleasing uh and
surrounding area can potentially spur
economic development uh for not from a
neighborhood but citywide level.
Variance request meets the criteria
decision as outlined in article 2
section 38-10k with the 2001 zoning
code. uh no public health, safety,
welfare issues were identified. And of
course on March 3rd of of uh this year,
the University District Citizens Design
Review Committee did vote to recommend
approval for the proposed
variance. So with that, your options,
one to vote yes and uh vote to approve
of the proposed variance. Two to vote no
and deny. Three to vote to amend direct
staff accordingly or table and postpone
indirect staff accordingly. Uh that is
the conclusion of my presentation and I
stand for questions. Thank you. Any
questions from the commission?
Commissioner Thirstston,
with
this with this variance and the previous
variance for the signs, do you have a
percentage of how much they have gone
over now for the signage
ordinance as far as in size?
Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair Commissioner uh uh
uh Thirsten, I do not unfortunately, but
uh this itself
um this one itself when it comes to the
square footage itself, it's tremendous.
I mean
that's what 10 times more than 10 times
the than what's allowed by code. Uh, and
the reason for that is,
um, when staff was looking at the
university district corridor, we're
really just looking at the pedestrian
area, if you will, the closer to
university where people are walking, so
you don't need a big sign because
everybody's walking along that area. So,
those types of signs definitely make
sense around those areas. This one's a
little more of heavily commuted area,
uh, trying to get into the corridor.
It's kind of a a little bit different, I
would staff would argue, uh, than than
what is what is the true corridor that's
further going east along University. Um,
that that was if if I recall, I'm sorry,
the university district policy, I'm
sorry, plan. Uh, that's what it stated.
Signage and development in the
university district should be more of a
pedestrian scale and and that is the
reason why the signs are these small but
actual hard number. I do not have
unfortunately. I'm sorry.
Any other
questions? Um I've got a couple.
Um my first question is
um who's who's paying for the sign? Is
it the city that's paying for the sign
or is it or Yeah, that's who who's
paying for the sign? Mr. Chair, the
applicants representants here for any
questions, sir.
Hello. Before you answer the question,
can you state your name for the record
so I can swear you in? Yes. Relle Miller
Hernandez. And do you swear to affirm
the testimony you're about to give is
the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law? I do. Please go
ahead. So I am Michelle Miller
Hernandez. I'm the director at Visit Los
Cusus. This sign is being paid for by
the ARPA funds that we receive to
um that are dedicated solely to the
recovery of the travel and hospitality
industry. Got it. Thank you. Um and then
uh sort of I guess
along the lines of the explanation or
the rationale given um about COVID and
the COVID impacts to um the tourism
industry.
Um I I
weirdly remember that this being the
exact same rationale that we received
for the first variance that we approved.
Um don't ask me how I remember that but
I'm almost 100% certain it was the exact
same rationale. So my question is, is
there any data to
support the fact that a sign is what we
need to recover from COVID in this
industry? So we and just to explain
where I'm going, that was the rationale
the first time and now it's been at
least a year. I don't know when we heard
that, but it's been at least a year. Now
you're coming back with the same
rationale to have an additional sign. So
I'm just wondering it are these things
related or can you just maybe explain
the rationale? Is there any hard data to
support this?
Um can you just respond to that? Sure.
So first of all, even though they're
both categorized as signs as signs, they
have totally very different uses. Um the
first sign on the corner um the monument
sign as we like to call it was more of
anformational sign to let people know
what's going on in and to benefit the
entire city not just the university
corridor. So we do um list activities
that are going on throughout our city.
This sign is more of a destination type
of um location or attraction that we're
trying to create for the university
corridor. And when we're creating or
developing these
um these initiatives, I guess you could
say, or these projects, we're looking at
a broader range of an impact. Instead of
just choosing, for example, one
storefront to help or one business,
we're trying to see how we can
um benefit that whole the whole area of
the city. I do not have hard data, but I
can tell you that many many cities have
signs like these and they attract not
only people to them, but as you know,
our world is very different now and
social media dictates a lot and people
post and tag these cities and then
people go and visit ideally or I don't
know if that's the right word, but to
take a picture in front of these signs
and then they start doing everything
else that that city has to offer and
spend their money here. So that's the
concept that we're we're uh or the idea
that we're following.
Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I mean I I
definitely agree. I mean we see it
downtown with some of the murals. Um for
sure. Um I think my um sort of
reservation here is we, you know,
variances are not supposed to be
something that we just, you know, hand
out um all over the place. Um, and we've
already done one for this location and
now we're saying, well, actually, we
want we want more signs. We need more
signs. Um, I'm a little concerned about,
well, what what are other businesses?
Um, I mean, what's to stop them to come
before us with the same exact rationale
that CO hurt their business and
therefore that's why they should get a
giant Los Cruis sign outside of their
business. Um, so I'm a little I'm a
little wary of the fact that we've
already done this once and now we're
doing it a second time. Um, what's to
stop other businesses from wanting to do
the same thing?
Um, that being said, I I completely
understand the appeal of it. Um, I feel
like if if this were in a a district
like downtown or, you know, maybe um,
you know, in the future in El Po that's
a little bit more pedestrianized. I
could totally see how this could be a
big draw. I'm just not certain
that, you know, in front of the
convention center, which is surrounded
by nothing, um, that this is really, uh,
the solution to the problem. Um, those
are just my opinions and thoughts. Um,
you're free to respond to them, but
that's just kind of where I'm coming
from. Mr. Chair, I'd like to bring up
one point. The reason we didn't choose
downtown is because there downtown
already has a lot of um, murals and so
forth, elements that draw people there,
and we do want to draw more people to
the university corridor. Um, a lot is
being built.
Um,
and just with that said, I I feel like
there a lot of growth can happen there
and this could help help
that. Thank you.
Um, and I guess just for staff, do you
want to maybe
address
how m I mean, are there other examples
where we've had seen multiple variances
like this where um, you know, ideally
this would have all happened in one go,
right? Um, but here we are, you know,
sort of peacemealing this together. Are
there any other examples of where we've
seen variances come and then you know a
short time later
um for for literally the same thing ask
for the same variance.
Mr. Sure. Uh all that comes to mind uh
would be essentially along the
interstate where uh uh for instance off
of Hickory Loop we had a couple of
developments out there where they just
put up their they got a they got a
variance to uh the height of a
freestanding sign uh because of the the
overpass that blocked it. So they got
that variance there. So but the problem
was though that sign was located in the
back of their property. So when people
came into off of Aan Msia, they're
looking for it, but it was off of
Hickory Loop, which is a completely
different street. So they they could
never get to that business. So they got
a variance for a second sign for they
could put it on on on the Hickory Loop
side. So there's one instance where that
happened. Uh, additionally on top of
that did want to mention as well they
are kind of restricted um because uh
technically speaking if they're
located good gravy out of the university
district just let's say they were his
own commercial they'd be allowed the two
freestanding signs by right um uh and uh
not restricted this this much in height
and this much in in size. It's just that
they're being in the university district
that's the restrictions are put on
them. Um again because I pushed back
university district was supposed to be
more of a pedestrian friendly staff
feels that's a little bit further down
university and this is a little more of
a actual driving area if you will sir.
So just want to bring that up. Yeah.
Thank you. Any Mr. Smith? I just have
one question for staff. um just looking
at this variance of 3'4 in uh and then
looking at the photo or the the um the
rendering that of the sign that you want
that they want to put up. Is that
measurement because it looks like I mean
it's already ex existing wall there. Is
that from the ground or is that just the
height uh that of the actual letters
themselves? Um Mr. Chair, Commissioner
Enrico, the actual height is
measured, the 6'4 in actually measured
from the top of the letter to the bottom
of the pedestal itself. So staff, they
take the entire the entire structure
into into account when we're looking at
variances. Okay, I should have looked at
that the drawing a little a little
closer. Okay.
Also point of clarification for you is
it's also 45 ft wide. So it's six it's
six feet tall for 45 45 ft wide. Yeah.
All right. Um Commissioner Go ahead.
Um can you flip to the side to the slide
that uh the rationale for being able to
do it?
So when when I've gone to other cities,
um I've seen signs like these, but I
don't go to the area because of the
sign. I go to the area because it's
normally filled with other activities.
You see them like by baseball fields, by
b uh like I think Phoenix has one, but
it's down it's downtown by the the
basketball um area. And so you see them
throughout other places, but it's really
predominantly pedestrian where you're
having people outside and taking
pictures of it, but it's also because
there's there's other people there. In
this case, we're predominantly cars that
are going to be driving through there.
And the only other time that I see
people using it is going to be when
people are already at the convention
center. So, I don't see it as a draw to
someone that's going to say, "Hey,
because of this sign, I am now going to
book the convention center or I want to
have something here." I can see it the
rationale behind, well, at least for me,
I can see it as I went to the convention
center and then I took a picture
afterwards and I posted it. But I just
don't see the correlation of it actually
creating
uh creating actual tourism or helping
the industry. It's more of it's it's an
We had our we had our event here and we
took a cool picture and we posted it.
Um, however, I do like the sign. It
looks great, you know, if you're there
and going things. But my only one fear
of this is is when we have someone else
come in and asks for a variance of this
size for the same thing, does that get
us into any trouble for approving it for
one versus approving it for the other?
because this is
6'4 by 45 ft wide. So I like it. It
looks good. But then when I have it
someone else come Walmart comes in and
says, "Hey, I want my 6'4 sign by 45 ft
wide that says
Walmart." You know, I just we would I
think we would instantly say no to that
one. So I'm just that's my only basis of
of being a little nervous on saying yes
to that.
I might just chime in just a little bit
there. I I completely see what you're
saying about a precedent suppose, you
know, to some degree being set with with
the sign. Um I guess on just to kind of
look at potentially the other side of
the coin, it's nice to have some
welcoming light and kind of warming
light in the town. Whether or not the
location right now maybe is particularly
developed enough for it, I can I can see
that. Um, but I'm sure that university
exit and all that does get a lot of
traffic and stuff. Um, I don't know if
it's like a no harm, no foul. I would
personally potentially like to see, you
know, more signage and more lit up
nighttime around town. Um, I know that's
obviously typically going to be the
buildings that are going to be, you
know, taking in that cost electrical
wise. I don't know how it harms the
environment or anything like that on
that side, but, you know, I just chiming
in a little bit more on that.
Yeah. Um I I was kind of thinking uh
along the same lines as Commissioner A
Costa. I was just thinking coming off
25, if you're heading down university,
you basically you're driving, you know,
basically past the university through
the university. And if you're heading
downtown, the convention center is going
to be there and that sign will be there.
So that is almost like a gateway, you
know, kind of to like getting into the
city proper. Um and then as he mentioned
u at the exit of university coming off I
10 um you know if you come off I 10 and
you take a ride on the university
um you know that sign will be there too
as a almost like a gateway to the city
going toward the university. So
I you know I I I kept looking at the
size of it and I was just wondering if
it needed to be that big. Um, but you
know, my thinking now is that it it, you
know, having a little bit more lighting,
something that's a little bit bigger.
It's not a billboard, but it's kind of
welcoming to the city.
So, I don't know. It it it seems like it
it would probably work with this size at
the at the convention center because of,
you know, the purpose of that building
and then the proximity to the
university. So, um, I know it it it it's
something that I think may work. So,
Mr. Chair, I would have to concur with
Commissioner Costa. Um, I'm pretty
excited about it actually. I think that
if you look at the convention center
now, that's kind of our gateway. We have
I don't have statistics. I'm sure Raquel
does. Um, our tourists, it really drives
a lot of tourists. There a lot of
conventions and having the sign like
this is is really exciting. You have the
monument sign that gives you
information, but if you're passing,
you've got to catch it just right. It
does have Los Cruus's convention center,
but on top of the building, but you can
barely see it. So, I think this is going
to be um a good move for the city if we
do grant this variance. And again,
variance is a casebyase basis. So, if
did Walmart did come forward with it,
they have to justify, you know, this is
the city of the the public own this. I
mean, we all pay into the Los Cusus
Convention Center. So, I think um it
does spur economic development in some
aspects. I mean, you know, some people
may not want to stop by and take a
picture of it, but I know a lot of
people do. I know I go to Roswell and
see Roswell with the alien and I stop by
and it's the middle of nowhere and I
want to take a picture of it with my
family. So, I'm pretty excited about
this and I and I understand that you've
come up to to this council several times
with the variance, but I would look at
it, you know, and make sure that this is
something that we want to do and and
we're not up for a third or fourth or
fifth time with these variances. But I'm
pretty excited about it. I think that's
a really cool move for for us to take.
All right, I'll go to public comment,
then we can um wrap up the discussion.
So, is there anybody in the audience who
wishes to speak on this item? Can I get
a show of
hands? All right, seeing none, we'll
come back. Um if there's no more
questions or comments, looking for a
motion to approve. Mr. Chair, I make a
motion to approve.
Second.
This is on the motion to approve 6.2.
Commissioner A Costa, yes. Commissioner
Thirstston, yes. Commissioner Smith,
yes. Commissioner A Costa, yes. Chair,
yes. Motion passes.
All right. Uh looks like we next on the
agenda is an election of officers. Um
I'll look to staff. Are you planning to
facilitate that or how
one one position? So we have
chair, vice chair and secretary, right?
Just those three.
What are the positions? Uh, chair, vice
chair,
and apparently secretary is optional.
So, did nodding of heads? Do does
someone really want to be a secretary?
All right, then we'll do chair and vice
chair. So, um I think uh it's some a
commissioner makes a nomination and then
it gets seconded.
So, just a nomination and then we'll uh
roll call vote. So, looking for a
nomination for chair. Mr. Chair,
sounds weird.
I would like to nominate um Commissioner
Thirsten as chair.
This is on the motion to nominate uh
chair Commissioner Thirstston as chair.
Commissioner
Costa, I'm sorry. So, just to clarify
here, so this is um specifically just
voting for Commissioner Thirstston as
chair. Is there going to be other
nominees or that was that was it? Is
that right? That's the motion right now.
Yes, Commissioner
Thirstston. Yes.
Commissioner Smith.
Um it it what if I Commissioner Kaiser
has been doing a great job. So I I had a
different u role in mind for
Commissioner Thirstston. So I guess I
would say no.
Commissioner A. Costa. Yes.
Chair.
Oh, this is
[Laughter]
awkward. Do you want to be
chair? Yes.
All right. Congratulations. Motion
motion passes.
Looking for a motion for or a nomination
for vice chair.
Um, I nominate uh current commissioner
Kaiser as vice chair.
Commissioner A. Costa. Yes.
No. Commissioner Thirstston. No.
Commissioner Smith.
Yes.
Commissioner A. Costa. No.
and chair. Yes.
It's a tie. Yeah. I've got It's three to
two. Motion passes. Yes. Lost track. All
right. So, and no secretary. No one
wants to be a secretary.
It's optional, I guess. Point of order.
Uh our myers do have a area for
signature of the secretary of the
planning zoning commission. So we could
always and that's what's required by
code. So should we have a secretary just
in case for that?
Who wants to be a secretary?
I nominate uh Commissioner Janet A.
Costa for secretary.
All right. Commissioner A. Costa. Yes.
Commissioner Thirstston, yes.
Commissioner Smith, yes.
Commissioner Costa,
yes.
And chair, yes.
Congratulations. Motion passes.
All right. Uh then we'll move on to uh
discussion and staff announcements.
No further discussion tonight, chair. Uh
staff announcements. We should have a
few cases for uh this next coming month
as well. Um looks like uh things have
kind of died down a little bit right
now. Uh well beginning of the year they
are picking up unfortunately a little.
Uh so we should be having a little bit
length year of these. So just please
make sure try your best to be at these
meetings. Uh that way we make sure we
have quorum out here. But thank you all
for coming. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Um, and I just wanted to make one
request of staff. Would it be possible
to get a presentation of an update of
the Three Crosses redevelopment project?
That's the one out at Apoka
Park at uh um Solano and North Main. I
know there's just been a lot of uh
movement. They've really come a long way
in some of their infrastructure and so
it' be nice to get um just an update on
everything that's going on out there.
Sure. We could do that, sir. Thank you.
Um, all right. Uh, looking for a motion
to adjurnn.
Make a motion to adjurnn. I second. All
in favor? I I We're journ. We'll see you
in April. Thanks for coming out this
evening.