[Music]
You're live.
Uh good evening. Welcome to the planning
and zoning meeting. Um today is Tuesday,
July 22nd. Um
I'm Chair Thirsten. Um and we have our
first first thing we need to kind of
make a motion on tonight is we have a
Costa on via Zoom and we just need to
see if we can um
basically get a motion to allow
Commissioner A. Costa to participate via
Zoom.
I make a motion to allow Commissioner A
Costa to participate virtually tonight.
I second.
Okay. All in favor of allowing
Commissioner A Costa to participate
online.
I
Yes. Okay. Thank you.
All right. Um and does anybody have any
conflicts of interest tonight with the
agenda?
I personally have one because it's my
own property. So, I will be stepping out
during during that one. Um,
other than that, uh, moving on to public
participation. Is there is there anybody
in the audience that wishes to have some
public participation that is not
regarding the two um
the two items on the agenda tonight?
All right. Seeing none, we'll move on.
Um, can we get also a motion to accept
the agenda the way that it is? Also,
this also accepts the meeting, the the
minutes of last meeting. So,
I'll make a motion to approve tonight's
agenda.
I second.
This is for the acceptance of the
agenda. Commissioner McCasslin
I.
Commissioner Smith,
yes.
Commissioner Connor or Murray, sorry, I
always do that.
Uh, abstain because I wasn't there.
You can't abstain.
Yes.
Commissioner Kaiser,
yes.
Commissioner Costa,
yes.
And Chair,
yes.
Thank you.
All right. Um, just wanted to welcome
Crystal McCasslin. She's our newest
member to the uh commission. So maybe we
won't have uh any delays on certain P&Z
meetings. Now we'll have full boards
again. So welcome, welcome. We're glad
you're here. Um moving on. It's the
first item on here. Um item 6.1 and
we're going to turn it over to SA staff
for the presentation.
Good evening, commission.
Wait, I messed up. Okay.
I have to have a motion to hear item
6.1.
And a second.
I move to hear item 6.1.
I second.
Okay. Go ahead, sir.
Good evening, commission. Um Sarah
Gonzalez with Community Development.
Before you is the preliminary plat known
as Stonegate Phase 2. The property is
located on the north side of Sailor's
Pass, east of Roadrunner Parkway. It is
currently vacant and undeveloped land.
It is following our 2001 zoning code. So
the zoning is single family R1A medium
density. The Rancho del Rey master plan
in which this is a part of was annexed
in and approved in 1997.
There was one or two modifications done.
2004 the modification was to adjust the
boundaries in order to realign
essentially settler's pass and to rename
some of the tracks that were located
within them and make them parcels. When
you're located as tracks or designated
as tracks, they become undevelopable.
You make them parcels so you can now
develop the land. Um the second
modification was done in 2012 which
increased essentially the multif family
density that was going to be permitted
within the multif or within the master
plan. Here is the approved master plan
as its final amendment that takes place.
What is highlighted in yellow is the
property in which we are discussing now.
Adjacent to this property was phase one
that was developed um several years ago.
However, now with the development of
Roadrunner being connected, the
development is now reoccurring to where
we'll start to see more development take
place out of this master plan. Um
currently there has only been 15 acres
that has been developed in this master
plan. This will basically take them to
about 41 acres out of the total 279.
It's very hard to see based on the map,
but as you can see of the surrounding
properties, they are all zoned R1A
single family residential from the
original zoning that was applied onto
these properties in this master plan.
Um, the applicant is not requesting a
zone change. They are just requesting to
basically develop to the R1A standards
that has already been approved.
Here's an aerial map of the property. As
you can see, this was phase one that has
already been developed. This would be
connecting on to phase two. Um, the
surrounding properties within this area
would be the continued part of the
master plan as we continue to see more
development take place within this area.
This is a 28.63 acre parcel to be
developed with 96 single family
residential lots. When the master plan
was approved, it did allow for six
dwelling units per acre. Um, but the
average that the applicant is proposing
for development is 3.4 4 dwelling units
per acre. At that point, um, an
applicant can come in and request a
lower density. We just request that if
the master plan was to be increased in
density, then you'd have to come back
and modify that master plan. So, they
can stay underneath it and develop
different size lots. They just can't go
above what was already approved in the
master plan in which they are basically
following. The lot sizes that they are
proposing range from 0.16 to 421 in
size. The applicant will develop all of
the internal local roadways which are 50
foot cross-sections. Um, and then they
will also construct Sellers's Pass. Um,
and that's why it was highlighted in the
previous slide. This will now give us
that connecting road to where it's
actually a complete street going up and
essentially to Rinkada Boulevard. Um,
creating those lanes. The only portion
that would not be developed with this
would be the sidewalk on the south side.
As that development comes in, then the
sidewalks would be installed. But we
would essentially have a four-lane road
that would now basically be moving
traffic in and out of that area.
Here is the proposed preliminary plat um
as provided by the applicant. And so
there is a continuation from the
previous phase that will connect to the
adjacent neighborhood towards the west
and then it will also leave an opening.
So it will connect to the east side.
When we did the comprehensive plan, that
was one of the main things was to make
sure neighborhoods were provided with
connectivity and we want to ensure that
those continue throughout our
developments. Provides more access. It
gives everybody the opportunity to use
multiple roads in case something does
happen on some road that is blocked off.
You still have a way to get access to
your property.
So, with this staff did not identify any
public safety, health or welfare issues
with the following plan. Um, it does
follow the Rancho Delray master plan and
it aligns with the suburban neighborhood
place types. It also provides
connectivity to those adjoining
subdivisions and future subdivisions
that do come in and it'll provide
additional housing options to the
neighborhood as well as to the
community.
So, with that DRC or staff's
recommendation is to approve with the
following findings that we did meet on
May 7th and discuss this through all of
the relevant departments. Um and through
that discussion um it does comply with
the city standards for subdivision code.
It meets the Rancho del Rey master plan
and it also complies with the 2001
zoning code essentially meeting lot size
requirements, densities um as proposed
by the applicant. One thing to note from
the DRC meeting was that there was a
discussion about when the park would be
dedicated or basically built within the
subdivision. As part of the master plan
requirement, it is not to come in until
at least 70%. The applicant may be able
to provide it at a sooner time frame,
but with the development that would be
coming in with this phase, we would be
at about 15% development. And so that
still has future development before the
park is required to come in.
Notice was sent to the surrounding
property owners with 500 ft. Um, we did
receive one email not in support
basically because we did see that there
were some concerns with the increased
traffic that may be coming throughout
the neighborhoods um with development
that comes in. The email was provided to
you as part of your packet. We also did
receive three calls in support um saying
that housing is a need in our community
right now and to move forward with the
development.
With that, I stand for your option. Are
these your options? Stand for any
questions. And our applicant is here as
well.
Does the applicant want to present
anything?
Okay.
Well, if you're going to speak, we got
to have you come up to the mic. But
right now, I'm just asking not for
public participation yet. I'm just
wanting to see for the if the applicant
has a presentation is all.
Mr. Chair, the applicant does not have
anything extra.
All right. I'm going to open it up to
the commissioners. Do you guys have any
questions for for Sarah?
All right. Now, for public
participation, go ahead and come up to
the uh mic if you if you like. And we're
going to give you
give you three minutes.
Let me turn this little machine on here.
So, I'm on actual Witstone and I have
Hold on. Hold on one sec. Sorry. I got
to swear you in.
Oh, sorry.
Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give is the
truth and nothing but the truth under
penalty of law?
Yes.
Thanks. And then what's your name?
Hope Cabales.
Thank you.
So I live on 2120 Woodstone. I had sent
the email and that we like I was not
like in agreement with the build because
we would be the ones affected with the
amount of traffic behind us. Like it
look from what I saw, we would possibly
have three or two people behind our
quarter of an acre lot. So that means we
would have like more neighbors in the
back of us. Um, also based off how
construction does things, there's a lot
of sand back there. So my question is
what are we going to do to make sure
that we have like the privacy that from
the our neighbors? And then also um are
we going to encourage the construction
to actually get rid of all the hills
that are back there and environment and
also like our views of the mountains,
things like that are going to be blocked
off again with having like two or three
neighbors behind us with single division
homes. I had proposed just to help with
the traffic noise and also make sure we
don't have increased traffic coming in
to the neighborhood since it's a family
residency that we possibly put maybe
like a trail in the back for walking
dogs cuz that's where a lot of people do
is they run and they walk their dogs
back there to separate us from the
additional subdivision. Um, and it just
gives that space like Metro Verde has it
between them and other subdivisions so
they're not like right next to each
other in the behind. So that's my
proposed solution to that.
Thank you.
Next.
Uh, my name Oh, do you need to swear me
in or
Yes, I do. Thank you for reminding me.
Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give is the
truth and nothing but the truth under
penalty of law?
Yes.
Thank you.
Uh my name is Elizabeth Mesa and I uh
currently a resident of Stonegate I
guess Stonegate 1. Um I did have a few
questions and kind of adding on to what
was said earlier. Um do we know who the
builders are going to be in that
subdivision in Stonegate 2?
Any ideas about who's going to be
building there? Builders.
Yeah, I reached out to real estate
agent.
Do you have any idea who those builders
are going to be?
I think this is for I'm sorry, but just
for the meeting purposes that we have to
you give us your your uh concerns and
then we will have to
I don't mind I' I've put stuff in email
before. So, okay. Because I I know I've
emailed before and I think there was one
email, but I know I've emailed about
concerns about this, but I don't mind
doing that again.
Yeah.
Um where do I send that email?
No, you just say just say it over what
your concerns are over the mic.
Okay.
And then we'll address it better.
Okay. Oh, I see. Okay. So, I just would
like to know who the builders are going
to be.
Uh, that's a little bit of a concern.
I'm glad to see that the acre or that
the the lot sizes are going to be uh a
pretty decent size. Um, speaking of the
subdivision next to what is going to be
the mitigation of the uh wildlife, I
know that there's a lot of potentially
coyotes back there. there's a lot of
snakes and whenever you start disrupting
that area that's going to come over to
our subdivision. So, I'd like to know
what the mitigation is going to be
regarding that.
Um,
uh, right now Stonegate, uh, I've looked
over the covenants that that currently
reside for Stonegate. I'm presuming that
it's going to be the same covenants for
Stonegate 2. Unfortunately, there's
nobody there to enforce covenants for
Stonegate One. So I have a big concern
there in that that the covenants there's
nobody that I think I can't remember the
name of the organization themselves but
there's nobody there to govern any sort
of covenants. So we're stuck calling the
city if there's any sort of issues but
there's no really nobody there to
address any covenant concerns. So if
it's just a matter of copying and
sending that PDF to the new residents
you've got to have something to back it
up. Somebody that's going to enforce
those covenants. Okay. Uh we talked
about the traffic. Um that's still a
concern. Right now there are no traffic
lights at Rinkanatada and there are not
traffic lights on um Roadrunner.
People run those four-way stops all the
time. So we're potentially going to be
seeing probably close to 280 300 new
residents in these new homes. That's
that's definitely concern. I've already
talked to the city about adding traffic
lights on Rinkanatada and Roadrunner. I
really think that needs to be discussed
at some point. Um,
let's see. Uh, I know that there was a
discussion to potentially put a park on
the what is the south side, north side
of
the northeast side of Stonegate One.
Um, I'd like to know if that's still
going to be in the plans.
And that's all I have. Thank you.
Thank you.
Is there anybody else for public
comment? Please come up.
All right. Do you swear or affirm that
the testimony you're about to give is
the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law? Yes.
Thank you. And please state your name.
Linda Courtourtney.
I also live on Witstone and I'm
concerned if the new properties are
going to come right up against our
properties or if there's going to be
some kind of space in between.
And also the the traffic on Settller's
Pass. Right now, people drive like 50 60
m an hour from Rinkanada to Roadrunner
in a 35 m an hour zone. And we need some
kind of like flashing speed light or
something. I mean, it's very difficult
even to come out of Witstone cuz there's
a slight dip on Settller's Pass. You
can't see the people coming. And when
they're coming like 60 miles an hour,
they're right on top of you when you try
to try to get out.
So the traffic problems and not wanting
people right on top of us looking over
into our property, especially if there's
a hill there. Are they going to build on
the hill? Are they going to flatten the
hill?
And that's pretty much it.
Thank you.
Is there anybody else in the audience
that would like to speak?
Good afternoon.
One second. Do you swear or affirm that
the testimony you're about to give is
the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law?
Yes, I do.
Thanks. And please state your name.
My name is Carmen Chavaria Chavez. I am
their neighbor. I'm also on Witstone
Drive. We've been there for about eight
years. Uh when I moved in, there was
about 12 homes in the area. Uh leaving
the area very desirable because it was
very quiet. Traffic was limited. In
2020, there was like an explosion in
that area. So now the whole area is full
of homes. I think there's one empty lot.
However, with that many homes that went
in is not even half of the ones that are
going to be over here going behind us.
That is going to increase the traffic.
Right now there is a one way in and one
way out. So if we open that up, it's
going to increase the traffic on the
back side, leaving us open to get all
that traffic through that little area.
It's a U-shape. It's going to come in
there. I I don't know what the plans are
for that, but I'm assuming that it's
planned to make
uh an opening there for us for people to
traffic through. Um I'm also concerned
about the wildlife out there.
Uh, we see a lot of coyotes, a lot of
And people don't like coyotes, but they
leave us alone. That's their natural
habitat, right? I mean, we're pushing
them out. Snakes, lizards, roadrunners,
whatever is out there. Quails. Uh, I
enjoy the desert area.
I'm concerned also about settler's past.
As others have mentioned, it's become a
racing pad, per se, and it's an exit or
it's become a diversion from the other
streets for drunk drivers
because there isn't enough police
patrolling. The lack of We're also
seeing a lot of crime going around our
areas, not specifically in our area, but
right next door in Park Hill where
people are coming in, checking cars, uh
breaking into places. That's also a
concern of mine. Um, we have a lot of
children in this area. I know for
myself, I have an autistic child. Um,
he's an he's an adult already, but I
know that there might be there's another
one in the area, uh, which also can be
an issue with the noise pollution and
the traffic around there. Um, I would
like I don't know if there's going to be
a park. I think a lot of people use that
area as a destination to go out, walk
their dogs. They just walk the little
hills. It's it's a beautiful little
area. Some abuse it and drop their
garbage out there, but that's a big
concern, too. So, and my concern is all
these people I'm not I didn't get to see
what size the lots. I'm assuming it's
going to be about a 100 homes, which
means the lots will probably be pretty
small and there will be really
congested. It's gonna be a lot of noise
pollution and that's um for me that's
you know that's a I'm sitting right on
the bottom of the hill which means that
the neighbors will be looking into my
yard
so that means that I'll be running
around naked so they can build a fence.
Just kidding.
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But
yes, that's my concern. Uh the traffic,
the noise violations, the wildlife.
Also,
I don't know what is planned for behind
our homes. Uh because mine and Linda's
are right behind that back.
Um if there's going to be a waterway,
there going to be a road. Um I don't
know what what's going to go there. So
that those are my concerns. Um hope you
take them into consideration.
Thank you.
Anybody else public participation?
Let's let's go ahead and let him go
first. I'll let you go first in the red.
Yeah,
sweet.
Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give is the
truth and nothing but the truth under
penalty of law?
I do.
And please state your name. So, my name
is uh William Lent, and uh it's great to
meet all our new our neighbors. Uh some
we've met and some we're meeting today.
Um so, uh Liz and I have been in the
neighborhood uh now a little over two
years and we we really love it. I mean,
we we think they're doing a fantastic
job. I really appreciate the zoning uh
board, if that's the correct
phraseology, here in Los Cruus, kind of
new to the new to the area. I think you
guys are doing a great job on keeping
keeping the uh the area in such a way
that um you know people want to be
there. Okay. And with with the growth
that Los Cusus is seeing uh we can see
naturally how the um uh this is just a
just a natural outgrowth of our
neighborhood. And I think I believe that
was the first time I had seen an image
of the housing with the with the streets
actually kind of kind of spread out
there. So that that makes sense to me.
Just a couple of items that our
neighbors have brought up I would like
to add to for just a couple of uh pieces
of discussion. Uh the first one is going
to be um as the developer or andor
builders I'm sure there will be several
builders that will go in um what is is
planning and zoning's rules on time of
day for construction? Right. I mean,
while it's important, I understand we
want to make sure that the the the folks
that are working and in the heat and the
sun, we we want to make sure that
they're not, you know, suffering too
much, you know, but we do live here and
you also don't want uh hearing the
backup alarms on tractors and whatnot at
5 in the morning, right? I already got
huskys that wake me up at 5:' in the
morning and but we feed them and then we
go back to bed, right? Uh so that would
be just a concern is that we just
address some kind of quiet hours that
that are realistic and not not
detrimental but realistic. Uh the other
part that I would like to uh have the
the developer uh andor builders address
is construction debris
specifically um sharp uh items that
there every place that you go where
there's houses being built inevitably
we've got tires that are getting
shredded right um
stuff that fall you know as as they're
cleaning out and carrying garbage away
or whatever there's going to be little
nails that fall onto the ground. What
kind of mitigation standard or technique
should we apply to keep the folks that
are trying to do 200 miles an hour or
maybe it's 2 kilometers, I don't know.
Uh right there on settller's pass. We
want to make sure we kind of got it safe
and we're not replacing tires and
windshields every couple of months
there. So anyway, thank you very much.
Those were just the additional items I
just wanted to add to the conversation.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Uh, do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give is the
truth and nothing but the truth under
penalty of law?
Yes. My name is Darvin Wiki. I live
close uh to the area under develop or
proposed um plat area in Rinkon Hills
and um I ride that on my electric bike.
I just want to say I am looking forward
to the road being finished there with uh
the separated sides so that there's
actually a a place for me to ride and
not be close to to traffic. I I do
understand and I can and I can u
empathize with owners uh here that have
spoken. I I too face a lot of the
concerns that they have but I also
recognize that um we do need housing and
that is something that is uh you know
it's that struggle between growth and
not growth and how do we grow and do we
want to grow and and everything like
that and I I also realize a lot of that
happens uh outside of this committee as
well with with city council and setting
zonings and stuff like that. Um, at the
same time also I love freedom and uh I
do believe that there are freedoms of
owning a piece of land and using it to
the highest and best use or whatever use
you see fit to use it. And um and the
city sets the rules on what that is. And
so I just uh uh I'm a little torn, but I
am in favor of freedom all the way. And
so I I would uh uh encourage you to to
approve that.
Thanks,
Mr. Bins.
All right. Do you swear or affirm that
the testimony you're about to give is
the truth and nothing but the truth
under penalty of law?
Yes, I do.
Thanks. And please state your name.
Good evening. Uh,
it is interesting to listen to our
neighbors and
I got to get I got to get you to state
your name. Sorry.
Oh, my name is Eddie Bins.
Thank you.
And you recognize I've been around a
while. Uh, we built a few houses in Los
Cruus and uh have enjoyed working with
the neighborhood, buing the city and
build something we can all be proud of.
Uh back specifically to some of the
concerns here. Uh one item was uh the
time of the building of the buildings.
Early on it was representative that this
would be developed in three phases.
Developing 30 some odd lots at each
individual phase and they would be moved
forward as marketing takes place.
Marketing in Los Cruus is unpredictable.
We can have years that we can sell
hundreds of homes and we can have years
that we'll sell one or two homes and
it's at and a builder's at the mercy of
the market quite frequently. Uh so that
my thoughts are in stepping this through
three steps to do it. Uh that'll take
care of some of the problems that people
are concerned with of having vacant land
uh and vacant lots in various areas.
One of the things that I would like to
bring to everybody's attention, the
chart on this said this land was
initially planned in 1975
97
199
what 97 anyway a long time ago. There's
about 600 acres in the project. It was
master planned for a multiple of
different activities. apartments, single
family, commercial activities, uh
doctor's offices, and many other
services that needed in the community.
This was put together in a master plan
and the sales that took place with my
involvement in have all contained a
sheet showing this master plan for the
600 acres showing the zoning in all
directions that were generated before we
ever sold the first house.
That way this was generated so that
anybody buying a house in the area had
access to the master plan zoning that's
take place. That zoning is identified on
the city maps. And I'd recommend anybody
and everywhere that they are thinking
about buying a home, go take a look at
the maps in the city that show the
zoning, show what's going on next to you
and shows where various developments
going to take place. My three minutes is
up. Can I keep going?
I was told yes. Thank the subject of a
park is an interesting one. When this
project was master planned, the city of
Los Cusus says we got lots of land from
BLM and there was no parks planned in
this 600 acres because the city had
anticipated getting land from the BLM
and the surrounding areas and they
preferred to have the cash from the park
impact fees to build parks. So
therefore, no parks were built in here
as per the planning that was existed at
that time.
I uh have challenged uh some of my
counselors through the years that
there's 200 impact fees in Settler's
Ridge. There's another 350 400 in the
Pines. There's another group in Pines
Estates. So there's a lot of in money
that has been collected by the city to
put a park in and unfortunately has been
used in other parts of the city uh
rather than this area. In the current
planning uh it become obvious that a
park is desirable and everybody wants a
park but not always in their backyard.
So it gets to be a challenge where do
you put a park and do you put a park
before you build the houses or after?
because no one wants a park after
they've got the house. They want it
before. So, there is a there is an area
that we're planning on a park and are
working with the park people. And it's a
combination of probably four to seven
acres, something like that, which will
have a combination of storm drainage
that would give a soccer field that
could take care of the 500year flood if
and when we ever get a rain and that
could be used as a shock soccer field.
the other 499 years. Anyway, it's it it
is something that is in the planning
stages and we are working with the park
department on that particular subject.
So that there there will be there. I do
call out to people or make people aware
that this 600 acres is all private
property. None of it belongs to the BLM.
None of it belongs to the city or the
state. I'm the one that owns it and I'm
paying the taxes on it and nobody's ever
offered to help me pay the taxes. So,
I'll just keep playing with it. The uh
uh there was several other concerns
about traffic that when this was master
planned roadr runner parkway that goes
through there is a four-lane divided
road that's planned. Settler's Pass that
runs east and west through the property
is about an 85 foot road that could be
zeroed out into four lanes should the
traffic need to be go that route. So
there is a large road there. It it is
designed to take care of traffic. It is
uh something that was planned early on.
When you do have growth, you do have
traffic and everybody is concerned about
traffic except their own. Uh people
don't always realize that their car is
part of the traffic that their neighbors
have complained about. But anyway, the
traffic issue is is something that's
part of growth.
do mention and make people aware that
are not aware that settller's pass from
roadrunner basically up to Ranada was a
road that was
granted by me right away to the city to
build that road to relieve the traffic
up in the Ranada area. There was an area
up there that was isolated. It only had
one road in and out and a second road
was needed for safety and welfare. So I
did grant the city right away to build
that road at their expense for the
benefit of the town. Uh it is something
that I don't regret and it served its
purpose and uh we will be expanding on
it and widen it on out to the normal
width.
Uh there's some other thoughts. If if
you folks have any questions, I'd be
glad to try to answer them, but try to
cover on some of the points regarding
traffic scheduling design and such. And
when neighborhoods are built, they're
built side by side without paths between
neighborhoods in particular. Uh the
existing neighborhood doesn't have paths
between them. as you move on up and add
more houses. That's the way it works.
Uh probably best I close my mouth and
let y'all ask any questions.
Thank you. Seeing that there's really no
other public participation here, I I'm
going to go ahead and close the public
participation side and then go to the
commissioners and see if you guys have
any questions for either staff or for
the applicant.
Actually, I had several questions um but
uh Mr. Ben, you actually answered every
one of them. So, um I but I I do want to
just make a comment concerning this
area. I mean, I've been living here for
27 years and I remember when this area
was just open desert. Um, there was
development happening. Um, and so it's
continued over the years and um, and
like Mr. Ben said, you know, um, all
these these plans, I mean, there was a
stonegate one, there's there's going to
be a stonegate two, possibly a stonegate
three and a four. So, um, it's it's
difficult to kind of, you know, uh, put
the pony back in the barn, you know,
when these plans have been in place for
for many, many years. And, you know, I'm
very sensitive about the concerns of of
growth and traffic, you know, in the
community. Um, it is part of developing
the city and pro and providing housing
for for residents, uh, whether they're
from, you know, in Los Cusus now or
they're coming from other states. So,
we're going to continue to grow and um
and I don't know how, you know, people
who are coming into the city can learn
about properties or or places where they
want to to to purchase a home or build a
home, but I think it's important that um
it's important that you educate yourself
as far as like where you going to build
or where you're going to buy a home
because u you can look around and see
that this is the area that that's going
to develop. Um I happen to uh work for
the BLM and um I'm I'm one of the park
rangers and uh I have watched over the
last 10 years the area around the
Donianas East Mesa U Red Hawk. It's
popcorn building. I mean it's just
incredible how quickly it's happening
and it's not going to slow down at any
time. So it's something that we just
have to be aware of and we have to
accept and um and as Mr. been said, it's
all private property and there's really
not much you can do to to stop, you
know, the growth. So,
thank you. Anybody else?
Uh, just got a couple of questions for
staff. Um, can you clarify what contains
the master plan? Um, I it seems like
it's probably
straddling Settller's Pass. Is that
correct?
So, where the master plan is, um,
Commissioner Kaiser, essentially this is
Sailor's Pass, which is what's
highlighted in yellow. That would be the
continuing line. There is property that
is located on the south side of
Sellers's Pass that is also contained
within that master plan. And then you
have vacant property that's located on
the north side. The only piece that's
currently developed is this portion
right here. These two properties that
are located right here are essentially
for multif family or commercial
development moving forward. And that's
why you see kind of a gap um when we do
look at um the aerial map. You see this
gap that's right here. And so the master
plan is going down to this essential red
line going around this property
boundary. Um there was an area that was
designated as the Rancho del Rey area
and then you have the Rancho Del Rey
master plan and that's why it's a 279
acres that were master plan but the area
was annexed in all at the same time.
Okay. Thank you. So um that kind of
raises a couple of questions about the
overall design and the plan of this
master plan. Um
looking at the the proposed road
network, there would be no connections
uh facilitating travel to the north of
what uh is being shown on this map. So
the the parts that are going to get
developed in the future will be entirely
cut off uh at this point from Settller's
Pass. Is that correct,
Mr. Chair and Commissioner? Not
necessarily. you may see that um these
two phases may be cut off from them, but
there could be future connections
depending on how the lots are laid out.
Um so if there's continued development
that goes further to the east side or
even from this west side connecting,
there is still those potentials of where
they would be connecting at that point.
Um staff is moving towards that. So as
we see developments coming in, that is
what we are requesting from developers.
Um we want to see those connections not
just on this on sellers's past but we
will continue to request connecting
points to where we see there may be um
topography constraints or issues in
which you cannot connect to and that's
what we have to review through those
grading and topography plans.
Okay. And what about any sort of trail
connection? Has there been any
discussion about that? It it appears on
the zoning map that possibly along the
Aoya there with the future park. Um but
any other discussions about the rest of
the master planned area?
There hasn't Mr. Chair, there has not
been any further discussions as far as
trail systems. Um this was the first
phase we've seen in sever in basically
15 years come in. Um as we continue to
develop, we will work with the parks and
recreation department to see if there's
going to provide those connectivities.
Um, as a master plan continues to grow,
every phase becomes very different and
it usually depends on those constraints
that are limited on the property. On the
southside is what you can see is
highlighted in green. That's the
designated area right now for that park
layout. And so we'd have to find some
form or way to get everybody across
sellers pass in order to basically get
to that park. So there'll have to be
some kind of trail system basically
implemented at that time.
Okay. And that kind of uh goes into my
next question about access to the park.
Um, I think my overall concern is I, and
this is a a fundamental problem I've had
for years since I've been on this
commission is that we call these master
plans, but there's no planning here. Um,
once these sections go in and they get
built, there's no going back. We can't
re-engineer a trail when we realize,
oops, should have had one. Um, I mean,
it seems like that this is all, you
know, it's one owner. Uh, there should
be a more cohesive
vision here. Um I am very concerned that
that park is going to be very isolating
for most of the residents. They're going
to have to the vast majority of them are
going to have to cross Settller's Pass.
And as this thing continues to get built
out, that's going to be a total
nightmare. And I just don't understand
how we can continue to allow
development that just it it's ad hoc
there. There's really no plan behind
this. Um,
how are residents going to access that
park location when Settlers's Pass is
built out? That is going to be a
nightmare for pedestrian and cyclist
safety.
Mr. Chair, um, Commissioner Kaiser, as
we move forward, I would agree with you
in the sense that when we are doing
master plans, we do have to identify
roadways cross-sections. Um, right now
we are currently in a phase where when
we updated our code, we did modify those
to request some of those requirements as
we continue to see master plans come in
because those have been some of the
concerns that brought up by a
commission. Um, with dealing in current
master plans that have been approved,
it's very difficult to go back and say
now you have a new requirement in which
you would have to meet. Um, with these
being designated and continued
conversations, it's the next
conversation will be when the phase
comes in is traffic lights. Those are
the biggest concerns just because we
know that it will now probably trigger
some of those traffic impact um calming
needs. Those will be considered at the
same time that the park comes in and how
that will be evaluated and how the
continued traffic moves on.
But that that comment that you just made
just a minute ago that this master plan
was approved,
you know, and I guess it was last
updated in 2012, which that that's my
point. You're saying that we can't
introduce new requirements. Well, what
what was the plan? What what's the plan
that was approved in 2012? Was there any
discussion about
about these issues?
Commissioner Kaiser, when we see master
plans come in, they don't designate they
don't designate roadway cross-sections
depending on the amount of acreage. I
think some of that concern comes in when
we start to see the preliminary plats
that are coming forward. we see how
they're going to actually get carved out
because we don't know what those
developments are going to be. We're
putting densities on them. We're looking
at what our road crosssections should
be, how we follow code, how they get
connected, our plans and policies when
we move forward. On a master plan that
was done in 2012, the minor modification
was to increase some of those densities.
You know, in 20 or in 2004, it was to
modify a road. It wasn't to request any
additional roadway connections or parcel
boundaries. Um, sometimes you don't get
into development until you start moving
some of the dirt and you start coming in
design features. I know that was some of
the process in this case. Um, this
process has been going on for over a
year now because a lot of it ran into
the topography of the site. Until you
start doing those grading plans, you
start actually doing the construction
and the development, it's very hard to
say where a road may or may not go. Some
of those get modified through plans and
that's where we see those changes
happening. You won't see them in an area
that says we want to designate so many
properties for this many acres with
zoning. That's what we tend to see as a
master plan. I think some of the master
plan development um you may be referring
to is when you have um a developer or
builder that comes in, takes 60 acres,
develops it, but they know exactly what
they're going to build because they're
building a planned community or
something of that nature, but they have
full control over that. In this case,
we're building out pieces by pieces.
developers are coming in requesting a
piece to be built out of a master plan.
Those are two different scenarios as far
as how master planning would work. We're
starting with something as 300 acres in
size. It's very difficult to pinpoint
where those roadways are going to be
without amendments coming in after if
they're not taking place. So, if you go
out, you start doing one development,
you tend to see that the topography or
the grading is going in a different
direction. You now have to amend all of
your plans to now justify why you're
changing them. And so we start with a
broader format through our master
planning process because we are dealing
with different development situations.
If we had something that was a little
bit less something that was planned,
usually if you see gated communities,
they already have an outline. They know
where their roads are going to go.
That's a different master planning
process. So we're dealing with two
different ones.
Understood. I guess I' I'd push back on
the idea that the topography just
appears one morning when we go out there
with a with a skid steer. uh we know
what the topography is ahead of time. We
can engineer around that. We know we
don't want to, you know, send a road
into an aoyo, send a road through a
mountain. I mean, we know those things
ahead of time. Um but I understand. I
think my last question uh for staff is
um are there any has there been any
discussion and and what are the plans
for uh traffic calming along Settler's
Pass as this gets built out into
basically a five lane highway?
That's a question for staff
at this time. No, there is none.
Um, Commissioner Kaiser, right now
discussions will be taking place um, as
we further develop the property. Um,
there is a threshold in which um, the
city can request traffic calming
measures to take place or traffic lights
to come in based on a person's or
developer site. Um, once you meet over
that threshold, then it is the
discussions of who pays for it, how does
it come in, what are our next step in
order to implement the next phases
coming in and to accommodate the traffic
that's going in. And so those are
already ongoing conversations throughout
our department just because of the area
and the designated space we do have. So
the conversations are is when can a
light come in, where is the funding for
these lights, what are those resources
that we can now fund and store and
basically put into here. In the next
phase, it was determined that a traffic
impact analysis would be required by the
developer um whenever he came in with
phase basically three of the project. Um
so that way we could see what those
trafficcoming measures are going to
amount to. If you have a lower density,
sometimes it doesn't trigger it. It's
based on the densities and the housing
units that are going in.
Yeah. Let me rephrase my question a
little bit. How many residents does it
take that come in before this body or to
submit uh feedback to the city that says
we are constantly seeing people drive 50
60 miles an hour on a section of roadway
that is a posted speed limit of say 35.
At what point does the city decide that
we need to do something to ensure that
people are driving the speed limit?
Because I've been out there on this road
and people have passed me when I'm
driving the speed limit because I'm not
going fast enough for them. When we
build this thing out to be essentially a
four-lane road, it is going to be even
more of a racetrack out there. And this
isn't theoretical. We see it all over
the city. We just had years of
discussion with realized Los Cusus about
these very issues. And so I don't think
it's acceptable to sit here and just say
that those things aren't real. It's not
happening. Especially when we're about
to put a park at some point on the other
side of that road.
At what point do we say enough is
enough? We need some traffic calming.
Mr. Chair, Commissioner Kaiser, that is
what traffic impact analysis are for.
They identify how many people are using
the roadways, what are the um issues or
concerns that are brought up and then
what traffic measures should be
implemented based on each road. You can
drive down Del Rey, you can see the same
kind of impacts that are along those
roadways. Wider roadways, it's based on
speed limit. They can be posted. Um but
it doesn't necessarily mean that there
is a way to mitigate every single
scenario that's going to come in. And so
as we continue to see traffic impact
analysis come in, that is what's
defining how a roadway should be
developed. That's why we made the
technical manual to follow whatever um
traffic manual was going to be better in
this case. And so when we're using these
multiple books of traffic calming and
measures and developments coming in,
that is why those reports come into us
and say these are what needs to happen
because your area is growing. Now it's
the impact. Now it is that time. Um, we
do see that a lot of the developments
will come in and then they will trigger
those street lights to come in with them
along with those. It's having the
conversations with multiple developers
in order to get those installed and
implemented into where they become part
of their plan before development extends
growth. Um, that's not always the
easiest conversation. We do have to have
them with developers and surrounding
property owners that may be impacted as
well. Um, as growth continues on vacant
properties and we see them all the time,
we have to work with our traffic
engineers, the city departments and then
the public to say what is going to be
those needs and that's those reports
definitely will generate a lot of that
information for us.
I have no further questions.
Excuse me. Could I add a comment? Uh,
unfortunately it is not on the screen to
show you, but when I say a master plan,
unfortunately Sarah doesn't have it on
the screen. It is master plan. Roads are
laid out, shorelines are laid out. This
isn't to go out with a skid steer in the
morning and do something. But the master
plan shows where the roads are going to
go. It identifies the different tracks
of the land for different purposes
whether it be apartments or whether it
be uh houses. So that this is planned
and the roads are laid out on the
topography so that they are draining and
handling the traffic in a safe manner.
So this isn't halfaphazard that there
the master plan I'm referring to is a
document that shows the roads the
various activities and such
and I would feed back on a finished
product. The high range neighborhood is
one that I was involved in from day one.
The Roadrunner Parkway going through
there is a raceway,
but we have traffic, we have radar, and
we put it under control. And that's what
has to take place when you have
instances where traffic is accelerated
in speed and beyond. But the the the
planning that took place in High Range
is a good example of master planning.
Same thing took place in Soma Ranch when
it came on and the same type of planning
is what's taking place here. It's not
halfhazard. its master plan because
we're putting sewer lines in, we're
putting water lines in where roadways
and where feeders are going to go so
that it's done intelligently.
Thank you.
Anybody else have uh any questions? I'm
going to ask if A Costa on online has
any questions.
Um I do have a question for staff.
She's ready for you. Um Sarah is I just
need to know is Sler's Pass going to be
classified as a main arterial road or a
collector? Do you know that
Mr. Chair and Commissioner Costa? It is
a collector right away. That's why it's
classified as an 80 foot wide
cross-section.
Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
Is that all your questions?
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I only um I only have one
question. Well, that's kind of Is this
an application in the realized Los Cusus
or is it in the former
um code? Which which one is this one
falling under?
Mr. Chair, this is following our 2001
zoning code.
Okay. So, when is when is the cut off?
right now because we are in transition
um our development standards will take
place in January of 2026 for realized
Los Cruuses to be the only code in which
we're moving forward with now master
plans are a little bit different just
because they were already master plan
properties and so we're working with the
developers because we do have to find a
zoning that would essentially be
compatible or comparable to what the
master plan was originally approved
with. So we will follow through with the
master planning zoning as originally
documented um from the codes in which
they were implemented and put into
place.
Okay. Because my my one concern that I
have is the parks and wreck in the new
realize is is vastly different than what
we currently have under the 20 or the
2001 code. So because
it would require I'm just curious
because then in this it would require
that the developer is supposed to put in
the neighborhood park,
not the city to put in the neighborhood
park. And so with those coming forward,
I'm just curious as to when when is that
going to hit the developers. But as far
as this one goes, it's still under the
2001. So for these these lots, he'll
just be paying the park fee. Is that
correct,
Mr. Chair and commissioners? Um at this
point there is already discussions
essentially on the park land and the
actual dedication. They're already Mr.
Bins is already working with parks and
recreation um to see if there is going
to be or not be a agreement formulated
prior to the code or the adoption being
done. Um based on the size of the park
though um that's already been
talked about and discussed the size of
the park actually meets the current code
requirements in real life o cruises. Um
so yes so it's already being discussed
and implemented um in January. Yes, the
fees would be new impact fees because
the impact fees are following whenever a
subdivision plat is filed. And so that's
already changed and been modified. Any
plats that are filed essentially where a
subdivision comes in now follows the new
current um impact fees.
Okay. So all this will get this this
phase right here will get grandfathered
into the 2001
correct
and the 2001 park fees.
No, Mr. Chair, it's any subdivision when
it comes in and gets filed. And so the
way the process works is a subdivision
will come in, go through the preliminary
plat process. Once they have received
approval from the planning and zoning
commission, they go to final plat and
construction drawings. At the time that
the final plat is filed with the Doniana
County office, that is when the park
impact fees are implemented. Based on
that date, we already have updated fees
and so they follow those current fees
for those four years. So yes, they'll be
moving forward with the new fees. Any
subdivision that's basically filed from
this point on will have new impact fees.
Okay. With that information, then
if this is filed right now, it's it's
following the updated fees
that have been adopted already. Is that
correct,
Mr. Chair? That's correct. If you were
to come in today and file it at the
county office, it's going to follow the
new impact fees. The discussion comes
down to the parkland dedication and
improvements. That is the current
discussion moving forward with the parks
and recreation department.
Okay. But there
two different processes.
There is a fee in there that I'm under.
if I understand this prop properly which
I probably don't because it's but
there's a fee in there that the
developer is supposed to pay or a fee in
lie just for the neighborhood parks now
and then there on top of that there's a
fee
Mr. Chair, you are correct. And so you
have two different processes of which
you're outlining.
You have the master planning and
subdivision process in which the
developer is required to dedicate the
required land and build the park as part
of their subdivision development.
Then you have the second portion in
which a builder will come in, develop a
home, and they require an impact fee at
that point. So there's two different
process, these two different steps. The
step we're discussing tonight would be
when the applicant comes back with the
park land, they are to dedicate it. So
there's a subdivision process and the
actual impact fee process. Two different
phases.
Okay. So those two
the the fee inl is not required as long
as we're giving the land. Is that right?
The land and the neighborhood park.
Mr. Chair, that is correct. The fee in L
is only coming in whenever we see a
development that maybe is coming in with
30 lots and doesn't have the land to
dedicate. then we would see the payment
in loo coming forward because there's
not enough land to actually provide a
decent park for the neighborhood to
actually be using.
Thank you. That clarifies it for me
because I all the new
new ways these are worded. I'm trying to
make sure we're not we should take a fee
or shouldn't take a fee, but it you've
helped me out here.
Mr. Chair, right now we're not taking
any fees. We'll have that discussion
when the parkland comes in.
Perfect. Anybody else?
I have one quick question. Um, this is
from Mr. Benz. Uh, Commissioner Kaiser's
concerns uh actually triggered this
question. Um, in light of his concerns
about the park and safety and the
traffic, uh, especially at this point
knowing that it could be a while before
Settler's Pass is expanded. Uh, have you
given any thought or reconsideration to
possibly putting a uh u another park on
that north side, creating some space for
for another park?
The current park uh fronts on Settller's
Pass. There's good frontage there. Some
of the early designs of the park is
putting a parking lot on part of it so
that the parking is offsite and is
available for people using the park
rather than parking in settler's past.
So, some intelligent design has been
played with in on that subject. Uh the
general area here, there's a couple
hundred acres around this and we're
looking at putting enough acreage in the
park to cover future development that's
going to take place in the 7 and 12
acres or so that's that's planned on
this tract. Uh the there is another
major area of this 600 acres that
development's taking place and it is an
area that I need to have some discussion
with you folks on on a couple of special
issues and uh I don't think we going to
go into them right now but uh there is a
another 300 lot subdivision that's in on
the paper and uh there is a park that is
planned adjacent to it. So that to
answer your question, parks in various
locations uh are certainly on the table
and on the drawing board.
Right. Thanks, sir.
All right. I think that brings us to the
to the screen where we need to motion.
Janet. Janet, are you still on there?
I think it says enable to connect right
here on our screen.
I believe yes, I believe she may be
disconnected.
Okay, then we'll uh move forward with
the vote on case 6.1. Um, so do we have
to clarify which one we're You just call
a roll now, right? Okay.
Right. Correct. Yeah.
Commissioner McCasslin.
Yes.
Commissioner Smith.
Yes.
Commissioner Murray,
yes.
Commissioner Kaiser,
yes.
Chair,
yes. And Janet was not available. Thank
you.
All right, for the next one, I am going
to have to excuse myself.
And
there's my cheat sheet for you.
All right, we will let Chair Thirstston
uh exit the room before we move on to
our next item.
Don't get struck by lightning.
Uh all right. Uh so I guess the way we
do this now is looking for a motion to
hear uh item 6.2.
I move that we hear item uh 6.2 on the
agenda.
I second.
Turn it over to staff.
Okay. Before you is going to be a
outdoor lighting variance request for
4050 Long View Lane.
We start out with essentially the aerial
of the property. Um as you can see, this
is going to be extended from Settler's
Pass onto Long View Lane, which gets
essentially to Angler and Thurman. is a
single family residential lot with a
single family home and accessory
building and there is a field located
within the property. A lot of the
properties that are around this area
were annexed into the city and
considered essentially a rural zone and
we are seeing development that is taking
place as far as a single family
residential going in now of a higher
density.
Here is the zoning map of the subject
property as along with the area. This is
going to be our neighborhood one zones.
Um it is following realized Los Cruus's
adopted code and so essentially the
property is still single family um has
densities that are up to 16 dwelling
units per acre but that would be outside
of the pervy for this variance
under realized Los Cru's 38-9 the
outdoor lighting zone is LZ1 which
refers more to our residential zoning
districts. There is a maximum of 450
lumens per fixture that is available on
each property. um code is silent however
when it does come to recreational
facilities or field lighting when it is
on a residential private property.
So additional case specifics um the
property is a 5 acre lot. It does
contain a private recreational field.
There has been six poles um put onto the
property that are approximately 25 to 27
feet in height. They are separated about
73 to 76 feet apart. There are three on
the north side, three of the south side
of the soccer field or recreational
field that's built. Each fixture is at a
lumen of 30,924.
So the variance request before you this
evening would be to 30,474
per fixture. The first light pole um as
part of consideration would be it's 95
ft from the front property line, but I
would say that's also extended because
they do have a road easement on their
property. So when dedication is
provided, it would still be at 95 ft.
It's really more about 145 ft
essentially from the property because
there is dedication for road easement if
it ever is needed for that road to be
built out.
The applicant has provided the
justification that it will be used for
family activities and gatherings. Um the
lights will not remain on for extended
hours or and they're not triggered by
any motion sensors. Trees have been
planted along the entire south side in
order to basically shield from the
property boundary on the southside
whenever it is to be developed so that
way the lights are not reflecting into
the property. Also, the lights will be
used intermittently and responsibly. The
idea would be is to use these lights
only whenever they're outdoors um just
because they are located within those
rural areas. Some of the safety concerns
because of the natural wildlife out in
the areas is to be visible.
Here's a site plan of the subject
property. As you can see, each light
pole is about 74 or so feet separation.
Um, these are the six light poles. This
would be the 95 ft buffer to the
property. This area is still considered
the property boundary, but it is a road
easement and that's why the wall has
been constructed in a different
location.
I provided these image. Um, this would
be me standing essentially in front of
the owner's property from the street
view. So if this road was to be
dedicated, this would be essentially
where you would see here are the light
poles that are erected onto the
property, these are the designs
essentially. So it is a single pole that
has two basically flat lights that are
located on the top and directly into the
recreational field.
In these images through here, trees have
been planted all the way along the
boundary wall, which is going to
separate them from the south boundary.
Here's another image essentially of what
those light poles look like from view of
essentially entering that property.
staff did not identify any health,
safety, or welfare issues um based on
the property of the proposal. We
understand that this is a private
residential recreational use that was
not considered whenever we reviewed
realize loss cruises and updated our
outdoor lighting um ordinance.
Private recreational facilities should
be considered um for all properties. As
we continue to move forward, a lot of
people are putting basketball courts,
trampolines, things are located within
front yards, sideyards, backyards in
order to keep kids, you know, from
recreation at home as well. And so it's
basically you have your own recreational
fields.
Recreation activities are limited in
rural areas as we do not tend to see as
many parks that are being developed
because of large lots. They're not
basically coming in with development.
You will see that the closest one to
this property is over a quarter mile
which is what is the recommendation by
elevate loss cruises. Um the other
consideration is once again natural
vegetation and wild wildlife. They do
exist within this area because it is so
rural. You will still see some of that
out there. So if your children are out
playing consideration would be is that
you need enough lighting in order to
support what you're seeing outside when
you are.
However, with that, um, staff is
recommending denial as it does not meet
the criteria in which we have the
authority to basically say variance is
not required. However, if PNZ does
recommend approval, some conditions that
you may consider to be placed on the
property is to limit the hours in which
the lights can be used. Um, and so we've
seen before where time limitations can
be used on lights and everything is
turned off at a specific hour. That
could be a condition. The other is to
say if the recreational field is no
longer in use, the lights to be removed
from the residential property.
The reason we say PNZ does have the
authority to approve variances. Um
consideration should be made as to if
it's contrary to the public interest. Um
if it is a special condition in which it
results in an unnecessary hardship, does
it meet the spirit of the zoning
regulations as observed? So is it
meeting the intent and the goals of the
comprehensive plan?
notice was sent to the public uh for the
public hearing to the surrounding
property owners within 500 ft. We only
received two calls um just inquiring
about what was taking place on the
property to get more information, but
there were no concerns or no con
complaints as far as it not being
available.
And with that um I have your options
available. Um, I do believe there is a
representative to at least relay the
information from our commissioner who
did have to step out that can further
reiterate the concerns with the
property.
Thank you. Uh, does the applicant's
representative wish to say anything?
Yeah.
And since you've already been sworn in,
just state your name for the record. And
uh, Darvin Wiki.
Go ahead.
All right. Uh um I'm a friend of Annie
and Kent Thirst. I've been asked to
present the following in their behalf.
Thank you for letting me speak today.
I'm here to request approval for a
special use permit related to lighting
that we installed in the front portion
of our 5 acre property. The purpose of
these lights is to allow our family to
use a large open field on our property
for playing sports at night. The field
and lights are purely for personal use.
Let me explain how we got to this point.
At first, I met speaking for Kent Nanny,
although I'm much more handsome and a
little bit shorter than him. Um, at
first I met with my electrician to plan
for field lighting. Due to the cost, we
decided to hold off on installing the
lights initially. However, we went ahead
and with the installation of the
underground electrical to be ready for
lights later. A few weeks, a few weeks
later, we decided to move forward with
installing the lights. We ordered
everything we needed, pulled a permit,
and had all the work inspected and
passed. At the end of the project, I was
told that while we had the correct
permit for the underground electrical,
we did not have the right permit for the
field lights themselves. It was at this
point that we also learned the field
lighting requires a special use permit,
which is why I am here today. The lights
are are already installed, fully
inspected, and passed all safety checks.
This special use permit is the final
step. The field we created is about 300
ft wide and 100 ft in length. The field
is meant to be a safe space for our
kids, extended family and friends to
play to play and gather. The summer
daytime is the summer daytime heat is
intense, but the evenings are nice to
spend outdoors and the lights allow for
outdoor recreation. There are not many
places within Los Cusus that have
residential areas like this and we want
to make good use of the land. We have
taken steps to be respectful of our
neighbors and mitigate any impact to
them. To help reduce light pollution, we
have planted about 90 trees 90 trees
along the southern side of the property
to act as a living barrier. These trees
will bl will block most of the light
once they are mature. We have also
installed perimeter fencing to prevent
any gathering or use of the lights
without our supervision or permission.
The surrounding area includes vacant
land to the south, which is not owned by
me, family-owned property to the north
and east, Long View Lane to the west,
which already has street lights
installed. Uh, park lights are
constantly on. City of Los Cruus's park
lights are constantly on until about
10:30, 11:00 p.m. when city when city
regulations require them to be shut off.
Our lights will not be turned on
constantly. They're only turned on
occasionally when we are using the
field. Our desire is to use our 5acre
property in a way that promotes safe,
healthy activity, just like many others
do on their own land. We are committed
to being good ma good neighbors and our
hope is that you will approve this
special use permit. Thank you for your
time and consideration.
Thank you.
Any questions from the commission? I
just had one. Um,
just based on just the diagram that I
saw, I mean, how tall are those light
poles? And
Mr. Chair, Commissioner Smith, um, the
light poles are about 25 to 27 feet. The
pole itself is 25 and then the light
fixture stands on top of those poles.
Um,
I mean, I'm not sure how uh light is
illuminated from a height standpoint,
but um it would it would seem that if
those those poles weren't as tall, I
mean, they would still be able to light
the area without um it being, you know,
possibly a a disturbance or or, you
know, an issue with with neighbors. Um,
and it seems like based on what he just
stated, uh, the representative just
stated, I mean, the property to the
north is owned, um, by family and also
to the east. So really, you're looking
at
any potential issues would come from the
from the west side.
Mr. Chair, Commissioner Enrico, I
believe, and that's why the applicant
because of where this is located, the
home right here would be blocking any of
that light that would be reflecting and
that's why they planted essentially
almost the 100 trees down here to create
that buffer. So, as they continue to
grow, it will shield that light. All of
our lights are still required to
basically go down so that way they are
not spread out as far and so you're
looking at them from a down version. So
you're doing the same thing that you
would be doing with the city lights as
it projects to a certain degree and then
it's supposed to be reflected down but
you're covering space. And so with the
three lights that would be placed on
here because of the length of
essentially believe you said it was 300
feet. Yeah. The 300 ft three light poles
on each side is covering that area. And
so if you reduce that then it will
reduce essentially how much you can
actually reflect from how tall it is. So
even if the pole is coming down, I think
our city lights are at about 25 ft as
well, if not a little bit higher. So
you're getting the same visual respect
as to what the light is actually able to
project on the field.
Okay. Yep. That answer my question.
Thank you.
A question that I have um you said
approve with condition based on like
limiting the hours. Does the city have
like a set guidance on what the hours
would be? And then second part to that
question is how would we enforce that?
say they go on past that time frame. Um
I just see issues enforcing that if they
like forget to shut them off and then
we're calling the police versus codes um
which is not necessary to shut lights
off.
Mr. Chair, um Commissioner Marie, a lot
of times what we will see with
conditions is we place the conditions
onto the property just because then if
you do have any concerns or complaints
that do come in, we have a way to
enforce them. If we don't put those
conditions onto the property, then
there's no enforcement. Essentially,
they could be on at any time of the day.
By placing a condition or a limited time
hour onto there, then if codes was to
receive a call, we can go ahead and
notify the property owner, hey, these
have been placed on your condition of
your variance. You're in violation.
Please make sure that they're actually
being addressed. As far as time
limitations, um there isn't a set time
limitation in which we would have lights
on or off for. Um, if the P&Z commission
determines 10 o'clock is the time or 11
o'clock is that time, that would be to
the discretion of the commission.
Um,
it's just one clarifying question around
the the use aspect of this. I know you
mentioned in both the staff report and
your presentation, I think that this is
sort of a private recreation
use, but I just want to clarify though
that
private recreation would mean that the
public could still have access to said
facility like it's being rented out or
um you public can access the the
facility or mini. But that's not the
case here. The case here is strictly for
personal use. Correct,
Mr. Chair and Commissioner Kaiser. That
is correct. It is the reason we're
calling it um a private field um and not
a public one. When we realize when we
redid the code for realize Los Cruuses,
the allowances are now saying that it
has to be a public field as opposed to a
private. And that's why we made sure
that it was basically for the personal
use of private property. It would not be
extended to anybody else. This would not
be a facility that could be rented out.
It would be used for only personal use.
Which is why the restriction would be if
the field is no longer to be used for
those personal uses, one of the
conditions would be to remove those
lights so it doesn't further continue
because a variance lives with the land.
It does not live with the owner.
Okay. Um
yeah, that that answers my question. Um
I think if this commission were to
approve this, I do think we need to have
um at least one condition around
operating the lights. Um
I think we at least need to have that. I
would also be open to the second
condition which is if the field no
longer is a field for
um the purpose in which they're before
this committee that they remove the
lights. Um I believe the way that we do
that now is we would need to make that
motion separately vote on it before we
vote on the overall thing. Is that
correct?
Yes, that is correct. So whatever your
conditions would be that we would Yes.
Okay. So I think what we do is let's get
a motion uh for the two conditions that
were listed uh by staff
um for the limiting hours. I mean
they need I would think need to be
turned off by 10:30 p.m. at the latest
seems reasonable
according to the city.
Yes.
Oh, sorry. Um,
question for staff. Um,
it is 10:30.
Is is there a currently a city statue as
far as like lights being off at a
certain time?
So, there is and we did look into that.
Um, and then I've I've lived that as
well playing pickle ball down at
Aquedaka Park. So they at Apadaka Park
they would shut off around 10:45 10:50.
Um I think from what we read it said 11
o'clock for city parks but not an expert
though.
Thank you. Okay. So uh I guess we can
say 11 p.m. Um but I was just reminded
we need to go to uh public comment first
uh before um we make the motion. So, is
there anybody who wishes to speak on
this item? Seeing none. Well, oh, yes,
sir. Please.
Please just state your name for the
record and I'll give you three minutes.
All right. Once again, my name is Eddie
Bins and it's been education to sit here
and observe the activity that goes on in
planning and zoning because I've
observed it for the last 60 70 years and
always is it education to come. Uh it's
interesting this particular project that
you're reviewing and and in sitting here
listening to it why I would certainly
encourage the approval of it with your
conditions which makes sense logically.
Uh I had the occasion to visit with Mr.
thirsten about possibly something of
this plate over in the Rancho del Ray
region in the Settler's Pass area, but I
did not feel it would be compatible with
the type of neighborhoods that I was
dealing with, whereas the current
location looks like it's a lot more
feasible. And so my comment is to
encourage the sport of it because it's
nice to have some types of facilities of
this nature around the town whether
they're public, private, or whatever
because we need more activities to
involve our teenagers and our kids so
that they're doing constructive things
under the supervision of their parents.
And that's what this looks like where
it's it's headed. And I think it's very
positive and strongly encourage your
support of it. Thank you.
Thank you. Anybody else wishes to speak?
All right. Seeing none, we'll come back
to the commission. So, um looking for a
motion uh to add conditions. Um need to
state that it's 11 p.m. on the that
first condition of limiting the hours.
So, looking for a motion.
Um, I move that we um um
approve uh this variance request uh with
the recommended conditions of limiting
the hours in which the lights can be
used to 11 p.m. and also that the
applicant shall remove the lights if the
playing field is no longer used or
removed.
I second. Sorry.
Okay. So, this is on the vote to amend
6.2 to to include limiting the hours to
shut off at 11 pm and to remove the
lights if the playing field is no longer
used or removed. Commissioner McCasslin,
yes.
Commissioner Smith,
yes.
Commissioner Murray,
yes.
Commissioner Kaiser,
yes. And Commissioner Costa, can you
hear us?
Yes.
Is that a yes you can hear us or a yes
for your vote?
Yes and yes.
Okay. Thank you.
Uh glad we were able to get Commissioner
A Costa back on. So now uh we're looking
for a vote to either approve or deny the
variance. Um since the conditions
have been approved. If we were to vote
yes to approve, the conditions would be
attached. I would make a motion to
approve the variance as as stated
with the conditions.
Yeah, sorry. That's what I meant. Just
voting on this
item.
Uh, no. I'm being informed that
Commissioner Aosta, you need to rescend
your motion because we've already made a
motion
to vote.
So, I resend it and I say I would like
to make a motion to approve this. The
We don't We don't need a motion.
Oh, okay. Perfect.
Thank you for rescending.
Okay. This is on the vote to approve
item 6.2.
Commissioner McCastlin. Yes.
Commissioner Smith.
Yes.
Commissioner Murray.
Yes.
Commissioner Kaiser.
Yes.
And Commissioner Costa.
Yes.
Thank you.
All right. Um, if someone would like to
get Chair Thirstston back in, assuming
he wasn't struck by lightning,
be helpful.
He was he is tall.
Welcome back. I'll turn it back to you.
Thank you. I'm on a time delay in there,
so it's it's a little little slower.
All right. Um we're going to go on to
number seven. Um
do we have anything for discussion?
No,
I think this is more
I had uh just one idea I wanted to throw
out to the commission. um see if there's
any interest given that our meeting
agendas have been somewhat light I feel
like for most of this year. Um I'd like
to propose that we um by we staff uh
provide some quarterly updates on some
of the big uh initiatives that we have
going on in the city. um updates on the
implementation of realized Los Cusus uh
the latest Alpaco redevelopment
uh as well as some of the other bigger
projects that we have. I'm thinking
specifically Apidoka the three crosses.
Um I think a quarterly update would be
nice at least for a little while just
since these are kind of new big things
and it'd be nice to talk about some
planning issues. I don't know if anybody
else cares for that if they want to, but
just wanted to throw that out there.
How do how do we go about that? Is that
the is it the is this the proper forum
to to do such a thing?
Mr. Chair U. Commissioner Kaiser. I
mean, if you're just suggesting that as
something that we can discuss among
staff or if you're trying to have a
discussion amongst the rest of the
commission, I would be a little hesitant
to bring certain things in front of this
body at certain times. If it's a project
that's not necessarily a private
development that maybe not necessarily
ready to come to PNZ for some sort of a
discussion, I would just be careful on
some of those projects. If it's a city
initiative that's being led, then
certainly staff can come give a
presentation. But I would just use that
as a as a sort of the guide between
which projects we bring for discussion.
Totally understand. I would leave it to
staff for your discretion. But I think
just with three crosses, that's a that's
the biggest redevelopment we've ever
seen in the city. I think having some
updates would be nice. Um but certainly
understand the uh the balance there. So
I would leave that to you all. But I
think given that we've had a light
agenda, just showing up for I mean
tonight was a little bit longer than I
was anticipating it to be, but I mean
we've had some meetings that have
literally been 20 minutes. I think those
would be great opportunities to just get
some updates on some of the big things
that we've recently seen.
Anybody else for any discussion?
All right, we're going to move on to
staff announcements. Does staff have any
announcements for us? No, no
announcements from staff.
All right. Do we have to have a motion
to adjurnn?
I'll make a motion to adjurnn.
I second.
All in favor?
I
Thank you.